So the Reapers come from dark space. What if they were right. What if in there 50000 year cycle they are off in another galaxy fighting a race of even more advanced A.I.s. What if there are even more dangerous monsters in the void or even another galaxy that the Reapers were trying to protect the galaxy from? What if the Reapers really thought they were protecting the races of the galaxy?
Just a thought. But, I kinda like the idea that there are even bigger monsters out there.
One of the creepiest "threats" I ever read about was a sentient virus Yellow Lantern Despotellis (from the Green Lantern comics), that wiped out the population of whole planets before people even realized what they were facing.
In a universe as big as ours, who knows what threats are out there. It was hard enough to conceive of billion years old giant synthetic beings that destroy on 50000 year cycles.
This has been discussed so often just like ME3's ending. I've made my own case for the reapers in the past from a devil's advocate perspective but most people can't consider the premise that the catalyst knows from extensive studies of many organic civilizations that the self-destructive, AI-creating pattern is the same. People make ridiculous rebuttals like "look at the quarians and geth peace" which lasts a whopping week or so before the game ends.
Your reason for defending the reapers is a little different from the norm based on you citing bigger "bogey men" out there in the universe but here's my OP from early this year.
"Most fans hate the Catalyst (maybe because of its form) but it actually
brought an insight into the reapers' motivations besides the "you cannot
comprehend" arrogance of Sovereign, Harbinger, and the reaper on
Rannoch.
It's actually not that hard to comprehend. The debate is
the ethics of this "ends justify the means" rationale for the harvests.
The logic is that the catalyst has studied countless civilizations and
the dangers of technological progression. Every single civilization
inevitably ended with synthetics being created, surpassing organics, and
eventually destroying them. Leviathan originally intervened to destroy
these synthetics before they could destroy other organic societies but
later created the catalyst as a mediator. The catalyst realized that
Leviathan creating it proved that Leviathan was making the same errors
the lesser species were. Therefore the reapers were made to destroy
Leviathan and any advanced organics/synthetics before synthetics could
dominate all life in the galaxy. While this gives organics free reign to
live it also put them on a timer that was accelerated by the invention
of mass relays (done to make harvesting easier as they'd technologically
progress along a linear path as well as a means for the reapers to
travel).
A theme throughout the series is the dangers of
technology. The idea is that without Leviathan or the reapers eventually
all organics will be enslaved or killed by synthetics. So are the
reapers right?"
http://forum.bioware...-reapers-right/
No. Organics are more resourceful than synthetics realize.
What if the Reapers really thought they were protecting the races of the galaxy?
I don't think that there was any real question as to whether or not the reapers/Catalyst truly thought that they were doing what they felt was best for the galaxy, or at least I don't think that there should be, since if they didn't care about organics at all they could have simply systematically kept bacteria from coalescing in primordial ooze and stop the development of organics dead from the start. Whether we consider it misguided or poor programming shouldn't really change that.
I am starting to get geared up for Darya's run of ME2 and ME3. Look out.
I am starting to get geared up for Darya's run of ME2 and ME3. Look out.
They were servants of an advanced AI that was programmed to do something 'At all costs' the end result was it doing whatever was necessary to do the job it was tasked with. There isn't a right or wrong from it's perspective it's just a machine fulfilling it's purpose.
EDIT: I tried not to say it but it was too much to walk away from. Whoever thought this would be some mind blowing revelation was deluding themselves. In the end it was such an abstract idea that it flew over the heads of 95% of the fanbase and to this day people still don't get it.
It's actually not that hard to comprehend. The debate is
the ethics of this "ends justify the means" rationale for the harvests.
The logic is that the catalyst has studied countless civilizations and
the dangers of technological progression. Every single civilization
inevitably ended with synthetics being created, surpassing organics, and
eventually destroying them. Leviathan originally intervened to destroy
these synthetics before they could destroy other organic societies but
later created the catalyst as a mediator. The catalyst realized that
Leviathan creating it proved that Leviathan was making the same errors
the lesser species were. Therefore the reapers were made to destroy
Leviathan and any advanced organics/synthetics before synthetics could
dominate all life in the galaxy. While this gives organics free reign to
live it also put them on a timer that was accelerated by the invention
of mass relays (done to make harvesting easier as they'd technologically
progress along a linear path as well as a means for the reapers to
travel).
If synthetics always ended up terminating all life in the galaxy, then how are there any organics left to propagate in subsequent cycles? Reapers have not shown any capability to create new organic life/civilization have they? Also why bother wanting organics to re-build themselves every cycle anyway? Aren't they already preserved in Reaper form from previous cycles? There's a case to be made for Reaper over-population.
Just too many flaws in the story to swallow honestly.
If synthetics always ended up terminating all life in the galaxy, then how are there any organics left to propagate in subsequent cycles? Reapers have not shown any capability to create new organic life/civilization have they? Also why bother wanting organics to re-build themselves every cycle anyway? Aren't they already preserved in Reaper form from previous cycles? There's a case to be made for Reaper over-population.
Just too many flaws in the story to swallow honestly.
Synthetics destroy their creators. Other organics kill synthetics.
Every new cycle brings something new to the solution. Previous cycle had an empire that span the whole galaxy and managed to subvert the Reaper signal. Current cycle has different races working together and has built the Crucible.
Synthetics destroy their creators. Other organics kill synthetics.
Every new cycle brings something new to the solution. Previous cycle had an empire that span the whole galaxy and managed to subvert the Reaper signal. Current cycle has different races working together and has built the Crucible.
Well, I was referring to fact that the Catalyst somehow knows that synthetic life would eventually wipe out all organics. How does he know it? It must have happened one time. But then there could be no organics to propagate the next cycle. It's called a logical flaw or plot hole.
If synthetics always ended up terminating all life in the galaxy, then how are there any organics left to propagate in subsequent cycles? Reapers have not shown any capability to create new organic life/civilization have they? Also why bother wanting organics to re-build themselves every cycle anyway? Aren't they already preserved in Reaper form from previous cycles? There's a case to be made for Reaper over-population.
Just too many flaws in the story to swallow honestly.
I never said "all life in the galaxy." The synthetics destroyed the advanced organic civilizations that created them. Leviathan intervened BEFORE they could destroy/enslave other organic races.
Why do the reapers let organics re-build themselves? Did you play ME3; specifically the Leviathan DLC? The reapers were programmed to preserve organic life at any cost. In this way organic civilizations are put on a timer to thrive before they become technologically developed enough that the reapers deem them too advanced.
This whole reply was paraphrasing what I already said though so just please read my posts in the future.
Well, I was referring to fact that the Catalyst somehow knows that synthetic life would eventually wipe out all organics. How does he know it? It must have happened one time. But then there could be no organics to propagate the next cycle. It's called a logical flaw or plot hole.
It's a machine. It made calculations and deduced that synthetics will prevail over organics eventually. The genophage and salarian claims about the krogan rising again are somewhat similar to this.
I never said "all life in the galaxy." The synthetics destroyed the advanced organic civilizations that created them. Leviathan intervened BEFORE they could destroy/enslave other organic races.
Why do the reapers let organics re-build themselves? Did you play ME3; specifically the Leviathan DLC? The reapers were programmed to preserve organic life at any cost. In this way organic civilizations are put on a timer to thrive before they become technologically developed enough that the reapers deem them too advanced.
This whole reply was paraphrasing what I already said though so just please read my posts in the future.
No, didn't play Leviathan--kind of got sick of the original story because of sci-fi tropes like this (not talking about the ending). OK so reapers were programmed to preserve life at any cost, but how much?After the first reaper, they could claim their mission is done. No matter what happens in the galaxy, as long as that reaper survives, organic life has been preserved. Why do it every single 50k year cycle? What's the point?
No, didn't play Leviathan--kind of got sick of the original story because of sci-fi tropes like this (not talking about the ending). OK so reapers were programmed to preserve life at any cost, but how much?After the first reaper, they could claim their mission is done. No matter what happens in the galaxy, as long as that reaper survives, organic life has been preserved. Why do it every single 50k year cycle? What's the point?
I don't follow. Are you asking why they don't just "reaperfy" every organic race in the first place?
1. New organic races would eventually evolve. That's how all new species exist now despite much life on earth being wiped out 65 million years ago.
2. Preserving life in the form of a reaper is the last resort, end-game tactic when an organic race has become advanced enough that they're a danger to themselves and others from the synthetics they have, or will, create. As I said, the point of the reapers is, in a strange way, as a protector to let comparably primitive organics thrive until they've embraced technology to a certain point. Without reapers, the notion is for example that a random, primitive, nomadic species on some random planet would eventually become enslaved/eradicated by a far superior synthetic race created by some now extinct organic civilization elsewhere in the galaxy. The reapers' purpose is to stop this from happening.
Well, I was referring to fact that the Catalyst somehow knows that synthetic life would eventually wipe out all organics. How does he know it? It must have happened one time. But then there could be no organics to propagate the next cycle. It's called a logical flaw or plot hole.
If I recall correctly, didn't Javik tell Shepard that during the Prothean cycle they either defeated or were in the process of defeating an AI race prior to the arrival of the Reapers?
If I recall correctly, didn't Javik tell Shepard that during the Prothean cycle they either defeated or were in the process of defeating an AI race prior to the arrival of the Reapers?
Yes. The protheans were on the verge of winning the metacon war.
Reapers were created to "oversee relations between organic and synthetic life". That means both must be present and not be at war (war is a form of relation but in case of synthetics it ends with one side being destroyed which does not work for the Reapers). That's why they harvest both synthetic and organic life. The "synthetics will destroy the organics" idea is a result of statistical analysis that the Catalyst runs for countless cycles.
Well, I was referring to fact that the Catalyst somehow knows that synthetic life would eventually wipe out all organics. How does he know it? It must have happened one time. But then there could be no organics to propagate the next cycle. It's called a logical flaw or plot hole.
I'm pretty sure the Leviathan witnessed the destruction of races a couple times before they decided something had to be done.
No, didn't play Leviathan--kind of got sick of the original story because of sci-fi tropes like this (not talking about the ending). OK so reapers were programmed to preserve life at any cost, but how much?After the first reaper, they could claim their mission is done. No matter what happens in the galaxy, as long as that reaper survives, organic life has been preserved. Why do it every single 50k year cycle? What's the point?
They have to stop organics and synthetics from getting to advanced, advanced to the point that the reaper can't defeat them. Thats when the reapers come out of hibernation and go to work.
Ah, just imagine how folks would react if the Reapers were solely responsible for preserving the universe from the spread of dark energy.
At least the organics vs. synthetics conflict is debatable.
Was your dog consumed by dark energy?
You seem to have a weird obsession with bringing it up.
Was your dog consumed by dark energy?
You seem to have a weird obsession with bringing it up.
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