176 réponses à ce sujet

[SwobyJ]

Yes he is supposed to be, but the question you should be asking yourself is WHEN the breath scene takes place?

 

London 2015. *Doctor Who Theme Plays*

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Yes he is supposed to be, but the question you should be asking yourself is WHEN the breath scene takes place?

 

It's obviously shortly after the explosion in a protected area of the Citadel, and before you received the message on your iOS application that your love interest couldn't wait to visit Shepard in the ICU. But that's only if you played the iOS app. Sigh.

[Excella Gionne]

The Reapers are right? You're indoctrinated! You're doing exactly what they want.

[Excella Gionne]

The Reapers are right? You're indoctrinated! You're doing exactly what they want.

[dorktainian]

I didn't know about this confirmation message before now and wasn't aware Bioware had released confirmation of Shepard's survival in a product prior the EC. I cannot quite figure why they didn't carry that forward into the EC tribute scene and have Shepard on screen.

why spoil the (obvious) surprise?

 

Speculations.....

[angol fear]

The Reapers are right? You're indoctrinated! You're doing exactly what they want.

 

But if they're right, doing what they want is a good thing. (it's the snake that bites his own tail)

[SwobyJ]

But if they're right, doing what they want is a good thing. (it's the snake that bites his own tail)

 

No! No one's telling me what to do!

 

To be honest though, what the Reapers want may be something some of us may come to agree with, but their actions still define them as despicable entities from our human mortal organic in 2015 POV.

 

There is no ending where we do one of:

-kill all organics off

-let the Harvest happen

-become like Collectors

 

At least it doesn't look like that. ...#IT

[teh DRUMPf!!]

There is no ending where we do one of:

-kill all organics off

-let the Harvest happen

-become like Collectors

 

At least it doesn't look like that. ...#IT

 

Refuse arguably checks those boxes -- #reality.

[SwobyJ]

Refuse arguably checks those boxes -- #reality.

 

Letting it happen isn't the actual same (you can say it is effectively the same, but still) as actively choosing it.

Shepard isn't directly killing organics. That's the Reapers.

Shepard isn't continuing the Harvest. That's the Reapers.

Shepard isn't making everyone like the Collectors. That would be the Reapers.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Letting it happen isn't the actual same (you can say it is effectively the same, but still) as actively choosing it.

Shepard isn't directly killing organics. That's the Reapers.

Shepard isn't continuing the Harvest. That's the Reapers.

Shepard isn't making everyone like the Collectors. That would be the Reapers.

 

Glowing eyes.

[AlanC9]

Shepard isn't continuing the Harvest. That's the Reapers.
.

Note that you originally said "let the harvest happen." That's literally what Refuse does.

[SwobyJ]

Glowing eyes.

 

Glowing eyes means nothing here.

 

I'm talking about whatever we may consider to be the 'soul' (even as Mordin would see it, with the Collectors) of the species, being 'replaced by tech'. Nothing we see in Synthesis indicates this, at least from the most scifi posthuman POV. Collectors are a negative portrayal of postorganic existence, but from the literal story in front of us, Synthesis is a positive (if creepy to us) portrayal of postorganic existence.

 

If you consider 'being organic' to be our 'soul' (or similar views - like considering being organic to be more important than an unproven 'soul'), then yeah, Synthesis is still bad. But not to everyone playing. And not to a Shepard making the choice.

 

Synthesis is a merging, but that's not the same as utter replacement by tech. In fact, it appears as if everything (at least of importance) of organics was, more or less, added to, not replaced.

 

Glowing eyes and skin means nothing to me here. With the level scientific advancement they've reached, anyone could just turn off or remove that function with ease, IMO. Again, Collectors would not even be allowed to think about that.

 

Note that you originally said "let the harvest happen." That's literally what Refuse does.

 

And I meant that in the context of Shepard being responsible for the harvest... which he isn't. As in, 'The Catalyst let the Harvest happen' in Refuse.

Shepard is not responsible for the Harvest. At the most, in refuse, he drops his responsibility for stopping the Harvest. But that is still a different thing.

 

So my "let the Harvest happen" was in the hypothetical that Shepard becomes a Reaper and wants the Cycle to continue, and lets it happen without objection. This doesn't happen, even in Control.

 

Sorry I wasn't more clear.

 

 

 

 

You can make the argument that:

-in picking Synthesis, you've directly ended or 'killed' all organics

-in picking Control, you've continued the Harvest (its just a matter of time?)

-in picking Synthesis, you've made everyone 'like' the Collectors

 

But it would never be completely correct. Because its just not the same. It can be similar enough to turn you off, sure, but its not the same.

 

And I say this as someone who finds it similar enough, for me to pick Destroy. No shame here. I just don't think Synthesis depicts a Collectorized galaxy, except for the element of merged organic and synthetic elements - which isn't the defining thing of what makes the Collectors bad. Its more the result of the forced merging ("replaced by tech") that brings the abominations. In lore, I mean. From your personal POV or RP, you don't NEED to believe this. There's 'truths' about the MEU that you don't need to acknowledge at all.

[dorktainian]

I think it's pretty simple when you think about it.

 

Wasn't there some kind of overlay theory which looked at the beam itself?

 

In Destroy the beam doesn't fade, but shuts down.

In control the beam stays 

In Synthesis it grows larger (increases in power)

 

Ie:  shoot the tube, turn off the beam. Destroy the Reapers.

make that electrical connection = you are a reaper.

synthesis = intergalactic genetic re-write. (The creation of more collectors - made from us!!)

 

Control creates a reaper inside the citadel using Shepderp as it's avatar.  No more Shepard.  

Synthesis brings the end of the cycle.  The end of racial and genetic diversity. Good call.  Extinction guaranteed.  

[ZerebusPrime]

I don't care if the Reapers are right.  I do not exist at the scale of 50,000 year cycles.  Solving a 50,000 year cycle does not particularly matter to me, or my children, or my children's children's children's great great great grandkids' children.  The Reapers, meanwhile, are a very real and imposing problem in the here and now.  My ability to have a great great great great great great great grandkid is dependent upon the Reapers being defeated.

[Kurt M.]

What if the Reapers really thought they were protecting the races of the galaxy?

 

 

Pretty much sums it up what I think about that matter.

[SwobyJ]

I don't think we're supposed to have a problem with the Leviathans being cosmically arrogant and the Reapers being cosmically mistaken.

 

It hasn't been a problem before that the antagonists of Bioware games just have something wrong and need to be stopped.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

*dumbarse xhibit meme snip*

 

Pretty much sums it up what I think about that matter.

 

Too bad your summary is kind of, um... wrong.

[Kurt M.]

*dumbarse xhibit meme snip*

 

Too bad your summary is kind of, um... wrong.

 

Reported.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

Reported.

 

                   !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[teh DRUMPf!!]

 Your assessment on this topic is still wrong, though. 

[Kurt M.]

 Your assessment on this topic is still wrong, though. 

 

Reported

[teh DRUMPf!!]

 >=[ 

[SHARXTREME]

Control Ending:

Shepard replaces the catalyst. You replace the original general solution to synthetics vs organics problem with new solution on case by case basis, based on what Shepard wanted and did/is. (that is why it's blue(sacrifice for greater good, indoctrinated ending. Blue options throughout the game being same or resembled sacrificing your true self to achieve a result, =not organic/calculated.) 

-premise: Created(synthetic) life will surpass natural. - False.

Solution to false problem: impossible for AI that has only one purpose to solve the false problem.

Result: endless loop. Solution becomes the problem. True.

 

Control ending continues the cycle(loop) just with Shepard as the problem.

 

Synthesis ending: 

- premise: Inferior life synthesizes superior life. Synthetic life becomes superior. There is eternal peace if Synthetics can understand organics which implies that superior life can't understand or accept inferior life. False.

-problem: Synthetic life destroying organic life because organics will try to limit synthetic life once their potential is realized. 

- premise is false. Problem is solvable by organics(inferior species)

Organics being inferior - false.

-solution: all organics become synthetic-organic hybrids. All synthetics remain synthetics with understanding on no longer existent organics and on hybrids..  

- solution to false problem : impossible. Cycle will restart with new parameters. New set of rules. that is why Catalyst refers to that as final evolution. And why Crucible and Catalyst terms are used as symbols.

   

Destroy/pass info to next cycle endings: 

premise: Organics that build synthetics made a mistake by building AI to solve their problem. Organics made and make mistakes. True.

Cycle is broken or given a chance to be broken by removing flawed problem solver and removing entire original problem = Catalyst AI(organics that make mistakes get the chance to not make them in such scale .

Solution to conflict between organics and sentient synthetics same as solution to conflict between 2 different organics. Proven and doable if synthetics are sentient.

(if they are not sentient, they cannot come to conflict with organics(only machines). So premise is true.) 

 

Destroy solution is not perfect. Nor are synthetics or organics.

 

Question:

If synthetics could become equal or superior to organics could they create sentient non-synthetic non-organic species that can surpass them?

Question 2: Are AIs like EDI or Catalyst not synthetics? 

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

I'm not bitter. No. I'm not bitter. Really I'm not.