96 réponses à ce sujet

[Wulfsten]

I ask this mostly because when people talk about how they complete DA:O or DA2 on Nightmare, they talk about extremely specialised optimised builds (e.g. Aveline with no points in anything except for Constitution), and making extensive use of kiting an any exploits.

 

Now, I get that it's satisfying to overcome the challenge of Nightmare using these kinds of tactics, but honestly for my first playthrough I'd rather not have to constantly be worrying about having the most optimised build possible. I'd like to bring along the party members I like best, and use tactics which are fun as well as effective, as opposed to finding something I can spam and then doing that the whole game.

 

Hell, I even want my armour to look vaguely aesthetically matched. When I played DA:O I would wait until I had built up Silverite versions of all my armour pieces and then make the switch, instead of having to deal with a patchwork of Red Steel and Silverite. 

 

Do you think that "Hard" difficulty will allow for this level of play? Or do you think I will have to play on Normal?

 

 

[Mukora]

The way I see it, the instant a game becomes more frustrating than fun, it's not worth it.

But this threshold is at different places for different people, which is why difficulty levels exist.

[rashie]

It starts to detract from gameplay at the point where the difficulty is designed badly rather than being fair to the player but still hard. An example of this when we are speaking about DA2 would be how enemies spawn in waves out of thin air which can totally throw off positioning unless the player have been there before and knows where enemies will be coming from.

 

Aka the point where it turns into frustration rather than a challenge.

[Decepticon Leader Sully]

when its freekin imposible or so freekin easy theres no point playing.

[The Night Haunter]

I don't think anyone will have trouble with DAI. That 60 min Russian gameplay has it on normal and they do pretty good without actually playing well. The camps are spaced well so that when they are out of potions it seems they are right near a camp.

[Chibi Elemental]

Actually I played both DA:O and DA2 on nightmare, and I did not use super specialized "optimized" Builds on my characters, they were however optimized to how I played and how the game sets those characters up to start with. the only character I ever used a respec potion on was my main character and that is because I felt bored with the build or thought I could do better with the same general idea of the build.

 

Also I view exploiting as cheating and yes I stood toe to toe with the arishok and won a couple of times though that actualy took some work to not have to kite him XD

 

the only time difficulty for myself detracts from game play is when it is buggy and does not function properly or poorly.

[Bronson]

Everyone has different things they want to get out of a game, so the different difficulty levels are great.

 

I'm going to play on Hard as my guess is that will be about right for me but from previous experience in other games when it seems like the enemy is cheating or it's unfair, you've gone up one difficulty level too many.

 

Conversely being able to steamroll your way through easily with little challenge is not my thing either so finding the right level for me is really important.

[Wulfsten]

Actually I played both DA:O and DA2 on nightmare, and I did not use super specialized "optimized" Builds on my characters, they were however optimized to how I played and how the game sets those characters up to start with. the only character I ever used a respec potion on was my main character and that is because I felt bored with the build or thought I could do better with the same general idea of the build.

 

 

 

the only time difficulty for myself detracts from game play is when it is buggy and does not function properly or poorly.

 

I mean, I hear what you're saying, but I honestly find it a little hard to believe that you could get through DA:O on Nightmare without really specialising beyond optimising NPCs in their natural direction... not unless you were hardcore using exploits and kiting. For some people, that's perfectly fun, but for me it's super unimmersive to play ring around the rosy with a dragon.

 

Every video I've seen of people beating DA:O on Nightmare has basically looked like that.

[rashie]

I mean, I hear what you're saying, but I honestly find it a little hard to believe that you could get through DA:O on Nightmare without really specialising beyond optimising NPCs in their natural direction... not unless you were hardcore using exploits and kiting. For some people, that's perfectly fun, but for me it's super unimmersive to play ring around the rosy with a dragon.

 

Every video I've seen of people beating DA:O on Nightmare has basically looked like that.

DA:O isn't really that hard on nightmare if the player knows what he's doing, especially if setting characters up in their natural direction.

 

Its possible to beat that game with all kinds of weird builds on the highest difficulty that your average player wouldn't really delve into, which is where id argue the real challenge in there is at.

[Navasha]

I don't remember ever kiting anything on nightmare in DA:O or really using any 'specialized' builds.   Just because some people play that way, doesn't mean its a necessity.    Now I am a pause control freak, so I do control every action all of my characters are taking every couple seconds during nightmare combats, but I find that enjoyable not frustrating.

 

I actually found DA2 (hard) to be kind of too easy to be truly enjoyable, but I found nightmare in DA2 too frustrating because of the forced friendly fire mode that was poorly thought out and implemented.   

 

So its clearly different for different people.    I am hoping that friendly fire is implemented in DA:I in a more sound and well thought out manner this time so that I can enjoy having it on without my own 2-handed warriors killing half my party.

[In Exile]

I ask this mostly because when people talk about how they complete DA:O or DA2 on Nightmare, they talk about extremely specialised optimised builds (e.g. Aveline with no points in anything except for Constitution), and making extensive use of kiting an any exploits.

 

Now, I get that it's satisfying to overcome the challenge of Nightmare using these kinds of tactics, but honestly for my first playthrough I'd rather not have to constantly be worrying about having the most optimised build possible. I'd like to bring along the party members I like best, and use tactics which are fun as well as effective, as opposed to finding something I can spam and then doing that the whole game.

 

Hell, I even want my armour to look vaguely aesthetically matched. When I played DA:O I would wait until I had built up Silverite versions of all my armour pieces and then make the switch, instead of having to deal with a patchwork of Red Steel and Silverite. 

 

Do you think that "Hard" difficulty will allow for this level of play? Or do you think I will have to play on Normal?

 

It's not clear how much it will be possible to optimize to faceroll nightmare this time around, seeing how we no longer have any stats to play around with in a conventional way. 

[Jester]

For me, too easy game detracts from gameplay.

If there's no challange to overcome, I cannot really feel that my hero/party is achieving something. 

 

And I don't do specialized builds or metagaming for DA:O or DA2. There's no reason to do so. I just play regularly, and build my characters as I feel like I should. 

It took me a bit to get the threat mechanics (in DA:O) and to adapt to unfair enemy spawning and utilizing cross-class combos in DA2 though.

Last time I had to really think outside the box, and use all "exploits" possible, was when I was doing Tactics + Ascension + Improved Battles modded run through Baldur's Gate II. 

 

It starts to detract from gameplay at the point where the difficulty is designed badly rather than being fair to the player but still hard. An example of this when we are speaking about DA2 would be how enemies spawn in waves out of thin air which can totally throw off positioning unless the player have been there before and knows where enemies will be coming from.

 

Aka the point where it turns into frustration rather than a challenge.

Yes, exactly. But after getting annoyed by that, I just adapted and after starting a fight I moved back to a defensible position, so all enemies spawned in front of the party. No more frustration for the most part.

I have to play Dark Souls one day... Everybody is talking about how difficult that game is, I need to verify that. 

 

I also enjoy doing REALLY difficult stuff, like Iron Man challanges (no dying/reloading the game, ever). Does wonders for immersion and atmosphere, but for something like that, the game needs to be FAIR above all. For example DA2 is not really fair in that regard. Unfair spawning, mages one-shooting party, broken friendly fire... Not really a good game to try out stuff like that . 

 

In general, as for Dragon Age series, optimizing builds/party composition is unnecessary. At least for me. I usually just take people that I want, and do builds based on basic gameplay knowledge and intuition. Nothing too fancy. 

 

 

I mean, I hear what you're saying, but I honestly find it a little hard to believe that you could get through DA:O on Nightmare without really specialising beyond optimising NPCs in their natural direction... not unless you were hardcore using exploits and kiting. For some people, that's perfectly fun, but for me it's super unimmersive to play ring around the rosy with a dragon.

 

Every video I've seen of people beating DA:O on Nightmare has basically looked like that.

Really? I mean, there's not much in building an efficient party in DA:O. A tank (Alistair, Warrior PC, if you're more experienced Shale or Sten can do it too) (just put talents in warrior and weapon and shield trees, you end up maxing them both by the end of the game), a Rogue Archer (just specialize Leliana in Archery), a mage, preferably with some healing (Wynne or Morrigan can both be used). You can easily beat Nightmare with a setup like this, if you know what you're doing more or less. No kiting, just threat management (keep aggro on the tank, which is on Heal + Regeneration), the rest attack from a distance. Piece of cake. 

I can safely say, that I never did more than just develop companions abilities in they natural direction.

 

DA2 is much more demanding when it comes to actually beating it on Nightmare, because of far greater number of enemies, broken friendly fire, harder threat management (no more spamming Taunt, cooldown is too long), mages/rogues one shotting party members and limited healing. Here you actually need to know what you're doing. Without some knowledge, you're going to struggle, because enemies will overrun you.

It still doesn't require you to use any type of specialized builds though.

[KoorahUK]

I usually start on Hard and if I'm having a ballache I'll drop it down. First time I played ME2 and had the show down in Horizon I thought I was in hell. 3 Shepards later and I blew through it on hard in a single pass.

Insanity still too much for me.

Only you can judge which difficulty suits your playstyle and skill level, but be honest with yourself and don't give a flying **** what anybody else thinks or does.

Fun first. Always. This is not your job, you are in control.

[Guyguyson]

The most difficult scenarios I haver ever found in any Bioware game are that one or two, optional, fights require aesthetics that have  to suffer for the sake of advancement.
In DA:O that literally just meant bothering to equip a helmet.

[AlanC9]

It starts to detract from gameplay at the point where the difficulty is designed badly rather than being fair to the player but still hard. An example of this when we are speaking about DA2 would be how enemies spawn in waves out of thin air which can totally throw off positioning unless the player have been there before and knows where enemies will be coming from.
 
Aka the point where it turns into frustration rather than a challenge.

I don't really follow this. After one or two battles, you know that enemies are going to spawn in. If you know that and yet keep relying on battle plans that can be disrupted by spawning enemies.... my first impulse is to say that "you're an idiot," but that isn't quite the right concept. It's more that you're trying to play the game as if it were some other game.

[HTTP 404]

It isn't so much as difficulty as it is when there is a huge disparity between fights.  I always felt like I could handle any fight on nightmare in Da2 but I had a hard time beating the bosses on hard.  Perhaps I could get better to beat the bosses on higher difficulty but I always felt like the fights that lead up to them don't prepare me as well as I should have been.  This is just my experience, I am not sure if anyone else experiences this.  So I have some trepidation about going into Inquisition on a high difficulty, but it is what it is.

[rashie]

I don't really follow this. After one or two battles, you know that enemies are going to spawn in. If you know that and yet keep relying on battle plans that can be disrupted by spawning enemies.... my first impulse is to say that "you're an idiot," but that isn't quite the right concept. It's more that you're trying to play the game as if it were some other game.

Depends on the fight, not all of them are taking place in the same area and the direction they are coming from can change with this, many of them weren't really that well designed either which I attribute to game getting rushed. The Legacy DLC did this much better. Waves are still there in a form but not nearly as bad as in the main game.

[TsaiMeLemoni]

When it goes from challenging to frustrating.

[VulpineSneak]

When a casual plays dark souls.
Mid game, at least

[Giantdeathrobot]

At the moment you're playing a difficulty level too high for your enjoyment.

 

I don't think there's any sort of shame in lowering the difficulty if things become too hectic; it's a game, you're here to have fun, you haven't go anything to prove (unless you're a super-hardcore player I guess).

 

That said, a big disparity between bosses and random mooks can get frustrating too. Bosses should obviously be harder, but DA2 went way over the top and both the Arishok and especially the Ancient Rock Wraith were way too hard. Bonus bosses being hard as sin is completely fine, that's their job. But storyline bosses shouldn't that much harder than normal gameplay.

[veeia]

With DA:I, my plan is to lower the difficulty if I find myself dying a lot in easy encounters and I don't immediately see what I'm doing wrong that I can fix.

I take awhile to get the hang of most RPG systems, and I prefer to slowly learn it as I play rather than learn it upfront and get frustrated because I want to progress in the story. I am absolutely ok with boss battles taking several times to win, but if the grunts are killing me , that's a sign to drop it down. Just for the first PT at least. My "gameplay" focused PT is always after the first.

[chr0n0mancer]

I'd say it detracts from gameplay when it turns from challenging to frustrating and makes the game a chore to play, or it bores you because it's too easy. Where the balance between the two is depends on the player.