63 réponses à ce sujet

[sylvanaerie]

Well the PC (Warden or Hawke) doesn't require lyrium even once to use Templar abilities.  

I'm going to go with "It's not necessary" until Bioware comes out with it being so in the game.

[X Equestris]

Maybe they re-retconned it, because in DA:I Cassandra is a templar spec without needing lyrium; this is explicitly addressed in the talent tree description. Anyway, I always assumed Alistair was using the Taint to power his templar abilities.

It's treated as a special thing. There was a post of an interview with Gaider, in which he mentioned about lyrium taking a long time to exit the body. Alistair had only been a Warden for six months at the start of Origins. He was probably running off of one dose given as a trainee.

[andy6915]

It's treated as a special thing. There was a post of an interview with Gaider, in which he mentioned about lyrium taking a long time to exit the body. Alistair had only been a Warden for six months at the start of Origins. He was probably running off of one dose given as a trainee.

So my thought that a single dosage lasts a very long time is actually canon?

[X Equestris]

So my thought that a single dosage lasts a very long time is actually canon?

I think so. It would explain why Alistair has to take lyrium in the comics but didn't during the time frame of Origins.

[KnightXE]

well, we know in DAI that Cassandra can use Templar abilities without needing to be addicted to lyrium.  so, it IS possible to be a Templar without the lyrium addiction.

 

of course, I'm really hoping the Inquisitor can follow in Cassandra's footsteps and become a Templar without the lyrium addiction.

 

indeed, it could even be part of the "quest" that unlocks the Templar abilities.  the Inquisitor is given the option to establish a "new order" of Templars that is free from the Chantry's controlling grip.  and one step towards that would be to break free from the addiction to lyrium, which is one of the ways the Chantry controls the Templars.

[Fardreamer]

Don't you remember that brain-addled Dwarf in the Commons in Orzimmar.  He said it was from the lyrium.

[Augustus Tirion]

It's treated as a special thing. There was a post of an interview with Gaider, in which he mentioned about lyrium taking a long time to exit the body. Alistair had only been a Warden for six months at the start of Origins. He was probably running off of one dose given as a trainee.

Ugh...

Found the quote you're talking about.

Now we've got two quotes from Gaider that are in direct opposition with regards to this topic.

 

According to Alistairs dialogue in DAO, he never took lyrium. It's not given until formally joining the Order.

And Gaider saying Alistair did take lyrium and it stays in the body a long time.

 

Then there's the point Big I made at the end of page one about it specifically being the the description of Cass' Templar spec sheet.

 

 BW is terrible at keeping track of their own IP...

[herkles]

The seekers use a different method I believe. But you can chuck this down to gameplay and story segragation.

 

Tis the same reason why mages don't have to worry about being possessed at every moment, or constently hear voices from the fade when ever they cast spells.

[andy6915]

Glad I made this thread now. With my own thoughts combined with some of the rather interesting and informative posts in here, I now have no problem making my character having a Templar specialization. Especially for a dwarf.

[Devtek]

So my thought that a single dosage lasts a very long time is actually canon?

 

I believe that the amount of time between doses shortens over time to the point where you cannot go without it for any significant amount of time without ill effects; this is when you become especially addled as you cannot ingest it fast enough.

[AresKeith]

 Maybe they re-retconned it, because in DA:I Cassandra is a templar spec without needing lyrium; this is explicitly addressed in the talent tree description. Anyway, I always assumed Alistair was using the Taint to power his templar abilities.

 

Seekers have a different method 

[andy6915]

Seekers have a different method 

Is it the method our Inquisitor will use if Templar is learned?

[AresKeith]

Is it the method our Inquisitor will use if Templar is learned?

 

Idk, guess it depends on who we learn it from

[X Equestris]

Is it the method our Inquisitor will use if Templar is learned?

If we learn it from something to do with Cassandra. I would guess so. If it's from someone else, it might be the standard method, though the Seeker method has the added benefit of explaining why the PC never has to deal with negative effects from lyrium.

[Adhin]

So not much to say on this other then in relation to how the quizzy learns templar (or any specialization). From what we know, no companion starts with a specialization. That means Cassandra, at lvl 1-2, doesn't have Templar abilities. It's not level locked, its story locked. That means she LEARNS the abilities at some point in the story. At some point in the story (probably relatively early) companions all gain there specializations, im assuming its some 'additional training' quest or something (singular, not 9, one for each - I hope, or at least that's how it sounded on the stream few weeks back).

 

Pretty sure this event is also what leads into us being allowed to pick ours. That in mind, in relation to Templars, I would imagine where ever Cassandra gets her training? We get the same training, from the same people. And I would say that would ultimately hold true for ALL specializations. Where ever Bull learns the Reaver stuff, or what leads Varric to become a artificer and so on and so on.

 

Really curious how that all comes together in DAI. All we really know is its a story event that triggers it, companions don't start with specializations and don't teach us them (for obvious reasons).

 

-edit-

Oh also, this leads me to think that we don't perm-unlock account wide specializations like in DAO. Instead its said story related event every new game. Which personally I'm pretty happy about, the whole book crap and doing a false start to get the specializations so I could start over and all that was kinda a downer with DAO.

[pengwin21]

It's possible that they just didn't want companions to gain specialization abilities before the Inquisitor could and thus the specialization trees just automatically open up at level 7.

[AshenEndymion]

Within the framework of the game series canon, lyrium is not needed as per evidenced by Alistair, who could use Templar abilities but had never even taken lyrium, because he never formally entered the Order.

 

Alistair claims that a templar doesn't need Lyrium to use the abilities of a Templar...  DA2 explicitly states that a Templar can't use it's abilities unless they've ingested lyrium(in the Templar specialization description)...

 

Within the framework of the game series canon, lyrium is required for Templars, and Alistair doesn't know what he's talking about...

[General TSAR]

Not really a spoiler so I'm putting it out there; in The Last Flight there was a Dwarven Templar called Laros. It didn't mention whether he was addicted to lyrium or not though.

I thought he was a Grey Warden, but it will be very interesting if true.

 

 

Within the framework of the game series canon, lyrium is required for Templars, and Alistair doesn't know what he's talking about...

I think it's more the constant retconning rather than Alistair being clueless.

[azarhal]

So not much to say on this other then in relation to how the quizzy learns templar (or any specialization). From what we know, no companion starts with a specialization. That means Cassandra, at lvl 1-2, doesn't have Templar abilities. It's not level locked, its story locked. That means she LEARNS the abilities at some point in the story. 

 

Cassandras has been a higher up Seeker for over 20 years, no way she's just going to learn those skills now.

[AshenEndymion]

I think it's more the constant retconning rather than Alistair being clueless.

 

Alistair is clueless about a vast majority of things in DAO... The idea that he's clueless about one more thing isn't that far-fetched, and makes the retcon easier to swallow.

[Asdrubael Vect]

Cassandra have dragon blood in her veins as alister(and he is a elf blooded, grey warden who have magic blood again)...so this is the answer how they can use their ability without lyrium...and let be clear that they by the lore does not use them much...look at the alister in comics or cassandra in anime

 

about dwarfs and kossith templars, by the lore  they cant exist because they do not have fade connection and lyrium will do nothing...everyone who is not see dreams and do not have mages cant do magic and cant unlock some magic powers with lyrium...kossith only have sairabas so their childrens can see dreams and become templar...so not a pure dwarfs who can see dreams can technicaly become tempalrs

[Meltemph]

Let me repeat part of that...

According to Gaider, "The nature of a novel means it must establish its own canon, and the novel's canon has no relation to the game's canon"

Someone needing lyrium to use those abilities falls within the umbrella of 'canon'.

So, again, I say, the comics don't matter in this regard.

Within the framework of the game series canon, lyrium is not needed as per evidenced by Alistair, who could use Templar abilities but had never even taken lyrium, because he never formally entered the Order.

No, canon and lore are a bit different. Canon is essentially the path the world of thedas has taken. Lore is the workings of the wrold of thedas, laws of physics and ect. Just because Alistair needed lyrium to maintain his practice of the skills, doesnt mean dwarfs or anyone else does who keeps up with the practice. Dwarves can feel lyrium unlike other races it seems(Ogren when at the temple of sacred ashes) and they are not completely immune but it works different for them. People are making logical leaps(at best) to say that Alistair needed lyrium therefore you need lyrium to use templar abilities. What I gathered is lyrium is a cheat mode to get the most out of your already learned abilities. We dont actually know how Templar's do what they do, so until we figure this out, speculating that lyrium is anything other then a boost is, at best, an incredibly unknown stab in the dark.

 

Hopefully they explain more how templars learn their abilities in this game, I find it interesting. That said, I dont believe templar abilities are fade abilities, infact they are the opposite, since it seems they close up the fade, so mages cant case spells.

[Neuromancer]

Rofl Dwarf Templar aka "Magic? What magic?"

[pengwin21]

DG: I would say that they are magic, they derive from lyrium, which is magic. The tricky thing there is that the Chantry is awfully hypocritical when it comes to magic, in that there are sorts of magic that they will use. Actually I should take that back, it's not necessarily that they're hypocritical, they don't have anything against magic itself. Magic can be useful, they know the mages are useful. It's the elements of possession and blood magic, all the forbidden magic where things get really dicey. Even if Templar magic was recognized as spellcasting, it's not innate to the Templars, if they just stopped taking lyrium eventually they would lose the ability. Although as Alistair proves, they can use the ability for a long time afterwards. I think part of that was just the requirements of gameplay, for us to have a specialization as well, so some of that story doesn't quite match up with the gameplay, and I think eventually we'd like to work the lyrium requirement back into the gameplay as well. Regardless the magic the Templars use doesn't involve mind control, it's not forbidden magic, there's nothing about it--especially since it can only against mages--there's nothing about it that would make the Chantry step in and go "Wow, that's bad." But then we're talking about a Chantry that also has phylacteries in every Circle, which is a type of blood magic, so there's definitely an element of hypocrisy there.

 

Source: http://swooping-is-b...om/1286233.html

 

Not a "logical leap", a quote from the head writer :/

[Yermogi]

The dwarf in DA:O in Orzammar who had the lyrium exposure issue got the lyrium straight into his bloodstream. That's why he stuttered and had short-term memory loss. BUT if that had happened to any other race than a dwarf, they would have died excruciatingly. So I would say a dwarf could probably be a Templar without most of the issues a human would face. BUT... prolonged exposure and constant lyrium consumption would render them as uselessly lyrium addled as any human. They might just last a little longer.