143 réponses à ce sujet

[ShadowLordXII]

How was everything gone wrong under her rule? There were a lot of internal conflicts going on with the warden and it was Loghain who was responsible for all the bad stuffs that happened to the elves due to his "The end justify the mean" method. She was a damn fine leader after the war, and her wanting to rule and knowledge of the throne prevents people from controlling or taking advantage of her.

 

A Civil War and a Blight occurring right after Cailan dies are all bad situations to deal with, this is true. It's also true that Loghain was behind a lot of problems for Ferelden during the Blight including the Civil War.

 

But Anora is the one who appointed Loghain to regent and supported him. This makes her just as responsible for all of Loghain's screw-ups because she gave the power to do so. She also does nothing while Loghain and Howe drag the country into debt and disgrace (maybe she couldn't, but she doesn't even try) and is actually willing to betray her country's last hope for survival to side with her traitorous father (who she knows is in the wrong).

[Degs29]

My brother has Anora ruling.  But that's just because he hates Alistair. 

[MissMayhem96]

in my Canon playthrough Anora rules alone and Alistair is still a Warden. I just figured it made more sense.

[Battlebloodmage]

A Civil War and a Blight occurring right after Cailan dies are all bad situations to deal with, this is true. It's also true that Loghain was behind a lot of problems for Ferelden during the Blight including the Civil War.

 

But Anora is the one who appointed Loghain to regent and supported him. This makes her just as responsible for all of Loghain's screw-ups because she gave the power to do so. She also does nothing while Loghain and Howe drag the country into debt and disgrace (maybe she couldn't, but she doesn't even try) and is actually willing to betray her country's last hope for survival to side with her traitorous father (who she knows is in the wrong).

She was willing to betray her father to become queen, so it's not like she only blindly does what her father wants. Dragging the country into debts? I don't remember that part, can you give me a part in the game where they said that? As she's in the palace a lot of time, she wouldn't have known the stuffs Loghain does to his citizen. You don't blame the president for the corruption happen to local area because of the governor. 

[ShadowLordXII]

She was willing to betray her father to become queen, so it's not like she only blindly does what her father wants. Dragging the country into debts? I don't remember that part, can you give me a part in the game where they said that? As she's in the palace a lot of time, she wouldn't have known the stuffs Loghain does to his citizen. You don't blame the president for the corruption happen to local area because of the governor. 

 

Again, Anora put Loghain into power and supported him long into the Civil War. It's true that Anora will sometimes speak against her father, but other times, she'll support him despite knowing what it mean for her country.

 

Howe (Loghain's partner-in-crime) was embezzling the Royal Treasury in addition to the strains placed on finances by hiring Antivan Crows (among them Zevran) and fighting the Civil War. Which was why Loghain allowed the Tevinter slavers to take the elves to try and make up for financial losses.

[Battlebloodmage]

Again, Anora put Loghain into power and supported him long into the Civil War. It's true that Anora will sometimes speak against her father, but other times, she'll support him despite knowing what it mean for her country.

 

Howe (Loghain's partner-in-crime) was embezzling the Royal Treasury in addition to the strains placed on finances by hiring Antivan Crows (among them Zevran) and fighting the Civil War. Which was why Loghain allowed the Tevinter slavers to take the elves to try and make up for financial losses.

I'm in the position that there's almost anything necessary during a war, throughout history, almost each side of the war had committed evil deeds. It's more about if it's an effective method. Does enslaving the elves allow them to advance in the war? Loghain gains favors from Tevinter, the bloodmages, and various nobles. In his own ways, he was unifying the country, and he would have gotten away with it, too, if it wasn't for that plot device, the warden. From Anora's point of view, she may not know about what's going on since she has to stay in the castle to keep order and keep the nobles in check, but all she sees is results as all she sees is supporting being rallied by Loghain. I doubt Loghain tells her everything going on behind the scene. 

[Shadow Fox]

Almost all my playthroughs have Anora warming the throne.

 

Only one female Cousland is different.

[ShadowLordXII]

I'm in the position that there's almost anything necessary during a war, throughout history, almost each side of the war had committed evil deeds. It's more about if it's an effective method. Does enslaving the elves allow them to advance in the war? Loghain gains favors from Tevinter, the bloodmages, and various nobles. In his own ways, he was unifying the country, and he would have gotten away with it, too, if it wasn't for that plot device, the warden. From Anora's point of view, she may not know about what's going on since she has to stay in the castle to keep order and keep the nobles in check, but all she sees is results as all she sees is supporting being rallied by Loghain. I doubt Loghain tells her everything going on behind the scene. 

 

Except Loghain's actions and collaboration with Howe were in violation of Federation law. I get Loghain's reasons, but they were still morally, legally and ethically wrong and none of it would do anything to save his country. In fact, endorsing the enslavement of Ferelden civilians (second-class citizens, but citizens nonetheless); Capture, torture and murder of Ferelden freeholders/nobles/and templars (Loghain knew about Howe's actions and even sent some people to Howe's dungeons (the templar for instance); Poisoning Eamon; and working with Howe at all (regardless of the degree) were destroying Ferelden and making the situation worst. But Loghain was too blind to see it.

 

And who went along with Loghain's actions for a full year despite all of the above? Who put Loghain in power? Who didn't try to use her influence as queen to end the Civil War? Who was largely powerless and inept until the Warden saves her from her own mistakes? Yet she still believes that she's the most capable person to be queen?

 

Hence why Anora never rules alone in any of my playthroughs. Her experience and administrative ability can at least make a good combination with Alistair or King Cousland. But the Blight and Civil War just don't make her seem reliable or capable as sole monarch.

[Elite Midget]

He "struggles" only if he wasn't hardened in the process.

But if he is, he's a way better in many people's eyes than Anora. She's just another politician, no different than any other noble and it's boring.

However, Anora knows the game and has been at it for years. Alistair alone has me worried, even if he's hardened. Alistair with Anora at least gives hope that Ferelden is in decent wants without the Warden being around to babysit it.

[Sir DeLoria]

Anora is complete b*tch, Alistair is one of the most adorable charcters in DA.

It's a non-choice, really.

[Drone696]

Anora rules.

[Dabrikishaw]

Anora only takes the throne when she marries my Cousland Warden.

[Battlebloodmage]

Anora is complete b*tch, Alistair is one of the most adorable charcters in DA.
It's a non-choice, really.

Really, remember what happen when you put the nice one, Harrowmont, on the throne? Being king isn't about being nice. You need a thick face that can break pavement and the guts to do whatever it takes to accomplish the task. I choose Anora just as I did with Bhelen, even when I play as a noble dwarf.

[ShadowLordXII]

Really, remember what happen when you put the nice one, Harrowmont, on the throne? Being king isn't about being nice. You need a thick face that can break pavement and the guts to do whatever it takes to accomplish the task. I choose Anora just as I did with Bhelen, even when I play as a noble dwarf.

 

Boldness and ruthlessness do not make a good ruler.

 

Loghain was bold and ruthless and look what happened?

 

Cailan was bold and look what happened?

 

The fact that Bhelen turns out to be the best possible king isn't something that can be seen in-game nor the fact that Harrowmont is not "the wrong choice". (Harrowmont was a traditionalist and considering what that means for casteless in dwarven culture, I wouldn't call that nice).

 

Meredith was bold and ruthless and she ended up started a war that's caused destruction and death in Thedas.

 

A good ruler is a balanced one between honor and ruthlessness; pro-action and caution; courage and caution; wisdom and strength; and above all else, is capable. No ruler is perfect, but I simply have more faith in the Hardened Alistair/Anora or F!Cousland and Anora/M!Cousland combinations than I do with Anora ruling alone.

[Battlebloodmage]

Except Loghain's actions and collaboration with Howe were in violation of Federation law. I get Loghain's reasons, but they were still morally, legally and ethically wrong and none of it would do anything to save his country. In fact, endorsing the enslavement of Ferelden civilians (second-class citizens, but citizens nonetheless); Capture, torture and murder of Ferelden freeholders/nobles/and templars (Loghain knew about Howe's actions and even sent some people to Howe's dungeons (the templar for instance); Poisoning Eamon; and working with Howe at all (regardless of the degree) were destroying Ferelden and making the situation worst. But Loghain was too blind to see it.
 
And who went along with Loghain's actions for a full year despite all of the above? Who put Loghain in power? Who didn't try to use her influence as queen to end the Civil War? Who was largely powerless and inept until the Warden saves her from her own mistakes? Yet she still believes that she's the most capable person to be queen?
 
Hence why Anora never rules alone in any of my playthroughs. Her experience and administrative ability can at least make a good combination with Alistair or King Cousland. But the Blight and Civil War just don't make her seem reliable or capable as sole monarch.

Removing Eamon is actually something I support, not that I have something against him, but it's a smart move to remove your political rival, thus less political division, and they can focus on uniting the country. Know that a lot of stuffs that Howe does, Loghain doesn't even know about. A lot of the embezzlements and corruptions are only by Howe, Loghain has nothing to do with that, and Anora even has less of an idea about. Enslavement and selling happening throughout history, even in real life history. You said why Anora doesn't use her power to end the Civil War, but it's the matter of how to end it. Civil War is bad because it's your people killing each other, so it's costly for whichever side wins. I doubt people will back down just because Anora commands it, and using troops to quench it is just as bad because they would only losing their own people. There is also the darkspawn threat. By killing political rivals and nobles who oppose them, they could end Civil War and focus on the Blight.

[darkmanifest]

A Civil War and a Blight occurring right after Cailan dies are all bad situations to deal with, this is true. It's also true that Loghain was behind a lot of problems for Ferelden during the Blight including the Civil War.

 

But Anora is the one who appointed Loghain to regent and supported him. This makes her just as responsible for all of Loghain's screw-ups because she gave the power to do so. She also does nothing while Loghain and Howe drag the country into debt and disgrace (maybe she couldn't, but she doesn't even try) and is actually willing to betray her country's last hope for survival to side with her traitorous father (who she knows is in the wrong).

 

Anora DOES try to stop Loghain - first by trying to talk sense into him, and then by trying to ally with Howe, and then by going to Eamon and the Warden when Howe goes bonkers on her.  She seeks out every ally she can with what little power she had left.  Remember, the royal army got wiped at Ostagar - it was Anora standing alone against a bunch of angry banns contesting her claim, with only her father's army for defense, until Eamon and the Warden showed up to give her another option.  I highly doubt she would have put up with any of Loghain's crap if she'd had several thousand soldiers of her own and a blood claim via Cailan's child, but she didn't.

 

That said, all the excuses went out the window when the Warden refused to agree to spare Loghain.  She handily threw Ferelden under the bus to save her father, it's true.  But Loghain is Anora's only major weakness as a ruler as far as I'm concerned.  Once he's removed, there's nothing left for her to put above Ferelden, hence why I put her on the throne.  She has her father's men for her new royal army, no puppet king to compromise her when it suits him, and no remaining sentimental attachments.

[Drasanil]

Really, remember what happen when you put the nice one, Harrowmont, on the throne? Being king isn't about being nice. You need a thick face that can break pavement and the guts to do whatever it takes to accomplish the task. I choose Anora just as I did with Bhelen, even when I play as a noble dwarf.

 

Alistair =/= Harrowmont. If un-hardened, he becomes a popular figure head for the real ruler (you/eamon/anora). If Hardened he arguably makes a better ruler than Anora given he develops a back-bone and while remaining relatively nice. 

 

--- --- ---

 

Any ways, for myself, I never leave Anora in charge something about her rubs me the wrong way. Only bothered to keep two playthroughs over the years, my canon one where she's locked up and Alistair is king. And my 'pure good' playthrough where Alistair marries her and Loghain gets a shot at redemption by killing the archdemon. 

[Former_Fiend]

To answer the question in the thread title, I do have a couple world states with Anora as solo queen, yes. Not my primary state, which is Alistair/Anora, but I believe I have more world states with Anora on the throne in some capacity than without.

[Tevinter Soldier]

I feel so alone when almost everyone has Alistair or Alistair and Anora jointly ruled together. Alistair and Anora hate each other, so I don't feel right to let them rule together. Also, 2 different rulers with 2 different opinions are gonna have a lot of people divided. Without meta knowledge, I find Anora already is an effective ruler by herself while Alistair who has no training and experience seem like he would struggle. 

 

i make Alistar a drunk every time its my only consistent decision he's a pathetic whiny brat that only wants to be king in order to kill a man. 

[thesuperdarkone2]

Her and Alistair are always the rulers in my game. Will be intersting to see how she acts after 10 years married to Alistair.

[Peer of the Empire]

Don't talk **** about Anora.  Alistair would make a terrible king

[Sir DeLoria]

he's a pathetic whiny brat

Anora is an even more pathetic whiny brat. Throughout the series there are few characters as spoiled and self-entitled as Anora. Which is why it's so much fun to crush her dreams.

Don't talk **** about Anora.  Alistair would make a terrible king

Really, remember what happen when you put the nice one, Harrowmont, on the throne? Being king isn't about being nice. You need a thick face that can break pavement and the guts to do whatever it takes to accomplish the task. I choose Anora just as I did with Bhelen, even when I play as a noble dwarf.

Except that Alistair proves to be a very competent choice. Like Drasa said, if he's not hardened he's a popular and stands for the people, if he's hardened he becomes competent and popular.

[Tevinter Soldier]

Boldness and ruthlessness do not make a good ruler.

 

Loghain was bold and ruthless and look what happened?

 

Cailan was bold and look what happened?

 

The fact that Bhelen turns out to be the best possible king isn't something that can be seen in-game nor the fact that Harrowmont is not "the wrong choice". (Harrowmont was a traditionalist and considering what that means for casteless in dwarven culture, I wouldn't call that nice).

 

Meredith was bold and ruthless and she ended up started a war that's caused destruction and death in Thedas.

 

A good ruler is a balanced one between honor and ruthlessness; pro-action and caution; courage and caution; wisdom and strength; and above all else, is capable. No ruler is perfect, but I simply have more faith in the Hardened Alistair/Anora or F!Cousland and Anora/M!Cousland combinations than I do with Anora ruling alone.

 

a good ruler also wants to do the best for his/her people and lead them to prosperity.

 

Alistar even hardened takes the job for revenge, his first act is to kill a man. he does not want to be king nor does he seem to give two shits what it mesto his people or the duty that comes with it.

 

he's self serving, the very worst type of ruler.

[Tevinter Soldier]

Anora is an even more pathetic whiny brat. Throughout the series there are few characters as spoiled and self-entitled as Anora. Which is why it's so much fun to crush her dreams.

 

self entitled certainly, whiny and pathetic? no (although her speech is rubbish)

[ShadowLordXII]

a good ruler also wants to do the best for his/her people and lead them to prosperity.

 

Alistar even hardened takes the job for revenge, his first act is to kill a man. he does not want to be king nor does he seem to give two shits what it mesto his people or the duty that comes with it.

 

he's self serving, the very worst type of ruler.

 

Considering who this guy was, I'd say that killing Loghain is more of a matter of justice rather than vengeance.

 

Even the "We need more wardens" argument doesn't hold weight since just about anyone else would due.