218 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

Blast it all. I'm interested in bringing multiple mages around, but don't want to have to build all of them around Barrier, which takes far, far more skill points to use well than Heal, it seems. Why could Barrier's effects not be percentile and level-based entirely, like Heal?

[Illyria God King of the Primordium]

Ooh, forgot to say in my earlier post - the fact that Barrier degrades over time makes it rather unspammable as well.  

 

When someone's barrier is low they can absorb less damage.  Thus the best time to cast Barrier is just before the enemy hits you.  This however leads to positioning issues, more thought about when and who you'll have to cast barrier on while they absorb the damage etc., etc.,  

 

Also on the damage front - the only enemies I've seen take off a whole guard bar in one blow have been elites or minibosses with big wind-up attacks that could easily be avoided.  If you aren't going to play smart, you're going to take more damage.  

 

I'm not saying this system is perfect, but I am saying that looking at the mechanics of it it does seem to work.  

[Illyria God King of the Primordium]

Blast it all. I'm interested in bringing multiple mages around, but don't want to have to build all of them around Barrier, which takes far, far more skill points to use well than Heal, it seems. Why could Barrier's effects not be percentile and level-based entirely, like Heal?

Man, it sure sucks that I'll have to devote my mage to specialising in an ability to use it well, rather than just dumping one or two points in Heal, setting up a tactic and taking a cigar break.  

[KoorahUK]

Blast it all. I'm interested in bringing multiple mages around, but don't want to have to build all of them around Barrier, which takes far, far more skill points to use well than Heal, it seems. Why could Barrier's effects not be percentile and level-based entirely, like Heal?

So build one mage around Barrier and three more around vast amounts of cc and dps. Four mages built around Barrier would be worthless, because you are only mitigating the incoming damage rather than taking out the causes of it.

That said, having each other mage able to throw out a non-upgraded Barrier occasionally will be hugely beneficial and will cost you a single talent point, even if thats all you take from the tree. Its easily worth it.

[Xilizhra]

Man, it sure sucks that I'll have to devote my mage to specialising in an ability to use it well, rather than just dumping one or two points in Heal, setting up a tactic and taking a cigar break.  

Yes, it does suck. It definitely removes options.

 

 

So build one mage around Barrier and three more around vast amounts of cc and dps. Four mages built around Barrier would be worthless, because you are only mitigating the incoming damage rather than taking out the causes of it.

That said, having each other mage able to throw out a non-upgraded Barrier occasionally will be hugely beneficial and will cost you a single talent point, even if thats all you take from the tree. Its easily worth it.

I didn't want to specialize in Spirit myself, and planned on rotating the other three mages through my party, so if I only have one specializing in Spirit, that'd be low barriers whenever I don't have that one around.

[LordParbr]

Yes, it does suck. It definitely removes options.

No, it's replacing one option with another, better option.
 

 

 

I didn't want to specialize in Spirit myself, and planned on rotating the other three mages through my party, so if I only have one specializing in Spirit, that'd be low barriers whenever I don't have that one around.

Where are you getting a fourth mage? There are only 2 mage companions.

All these people complaining that we have to actually think now...

 

 

[azarhal]

No it isn't. You can't spam Barrier with it's cooldown being what it is.

 

Passives and Upgrades can reduce Barrier cooldown significantly.

 

 

Where are you getting a fourth mage? There are only 2 mage companions.

 

There is 3 mage companions: Dorian, Solas and Vivienne.

[KoorahUK]

Yes, it does suck. It definitely removes options.

 

 

I didn't want to specialize in Spirit myself, and planned on rotating the other three mages through my party, so if I only have one specializing in Spirit, that'd be low barriers whenever I don't have that one around.

Indeed, plan on doing a lot of party mix ups myself, but when you have different abilities available to you you need to change your tactics to utilise them, whether thats a balanced party or a monoclass one.

 

If you don't have barrier upgraded (or at all) then you will have to ensure you don't get hit, so that means a lot of CC and a lot of high dps alpha strikes, which luckily mages are built for and you will have 4 of them . By the time you have actually recruited your fourth mage to the party you'll be levelled enough to have a good smattering of abilities. 

It'll be a challenge to play a monoclass party but I don't think you'll be as dependant on Barrier as you think.

[Steeltrap]

I don't think its worth upgrading barrier for the amount of points it costs to do so because the amount of damage it protects slowly fades away in 10 seconds even if you don't take damage. I see barrier as solely a temporary measure to give time for the tank to build up guard or to apply right before the boss uses a strong ability because if anyone gets constantly attacked and they don't bother avoiding the damage barrier won't save them, it only delays their death.

[Keroko]

I didn't want to specialize in Spirit myself, and planned on rotating the other three mages through my party, so if I only have one specializing in Spirit, that'd be low barriers whenever I don't have that one around.

 

So bring a warrior with a shield/sword spec with plenty of taunt and guard abilities?

 

I'm kind of amused by the irony that so many were decrying the loss of healing as 'dumbing down the game', but now that it's finally sunk in that damage prevention is going to be a big deal in this game suddenly having to think about your party composition and micromanage your party is a bad thing.

[azarhal]

I don't think its worth upgrading barrier for the amount of points it costs to do so because the amount of damage it protects slowly fades away in 10 seconds even if you don't take damage. I see barrier as solely a temporary measure to give time for the tank to build up guard or to apply right before the boss uses a strong ability because if anyone gets constantly attacked and they don't bother avoiding the damage barrier won't save them, it only delays their death.

 

Barrier aren't just about absorbing damage. They can be turned into different kind of buff spells, depending how you build your mages. There is a passive in Spirit that turn them into mana/stamina regeneration buff. There is a passive in Inferno that eat them to increase spell damage. Knight-Enchanter has a reflect damage passive when under a Barrier.

[KoorahUK]

I don't think its worth upgrading barrier for the amount of points it costs to do so because the amount of damage it protects slowly fades away in 10 seconds even if you don't take damage. I see barrier as solely a temporary measure to give time for the tank to build up guard or to apply right before the boss uses a strong ability because if anyone gets constantly attacked and they don't bother avoiding the damage barrier won't save them, it only delays their death.

Definitely a YMMV this one. I think upgraded Barrier benefits a melee heavy party more, considering the upgrades and passives reduce the cooldown, increase the damage absorbtion and far enough into the tree increase stamina regen to allow Barriered warriors to throw out more abilities, I'm certainly getting Viv to invest in it. 

[LordParbr]

Passives and Upgrades can reduce Barrier cooldown significantly.

Not enought to make spamming it viable.
 

 

There is 3 mage companions: Dorian, Solas and Vivienne.

I always forget Dorian

[lady_v23]

I think barrier it's pretty much the new healing

[Godrichman]

 

 

Preparing for large damage attack? Barrier.

Preparing to attack a group of enemies? Barrier.

Last barrier broke? Barrier.

Mage in sight? Barrier.

Ever not have barrier up? Barrier.

:/

Having romantic encounters with our LI with no birth control? Barrier.

[Ianamus]

If you build into barrier (learn all the upgrades) then you will probably make yourself dependant on it.

 

It seems to be far from the only option though. Getting the perk that gives you more potions, buiding a warrior to speciaize in guard and taunt, crafting defensive or lifestealing weapons or taking the focus ability also seem to be viable options. You'll probably have to do at least one of those, but that's kind of expected.

 

There are probably other ways around it like going stealth rogues and either avoiding enemies or killing them before they can damage you, or with effective use of crowd control.

[KoorahUK]

So bring a warrior with a shield/sword spec with plenty of taunt and guard abilities?

 

I'm kind of amused by the irony that so many were decrying the loss of healing as 'dumbing down the game', but now that it's finally sunk in that damage prevention is going to be a big deal in this game suddenly having to think about your party composition and micromanage your party is a bad thing.

I'm with you on this but to be fair Xil was specifically talking about having a 4 mage party. 

 

Its worth noting though that 2 mages with only 2 points spent in Barrier each will allow a mage party to ping pong barrier almost constantly, received damage and mana management being the variables on the barriers duration. 2 points is hardly a heavy investment. 

[bazzybond]

Spam barrier or spam heal? It's the same thing really.
I'd rather barrier because it seems better for lore. Didn't the writers want to make it seem that healers were rarer and not something every mage could do?

[azarhal]

Not enought to make spamming it viable.

 

A barrier last about 10 seconds and the cooldown is 24 seconds. The upgrade remove 4 seconds for each barriers that expire. That's a potential 16 seconds cooldown reduction if it is on the whole party. You should less or more be able to re-cast it right after it is expired with the upgrade. Then you add Clean Burn and/or Winter Stillness to reduce the cooldown even further.

[Medhia_Nox]

Have any of you even SEEN warriors with guard on?  

 

Besides when they're fighting giants, dragons and pride demons... guard hardly ever seems to diminish.  Four warriors seems crazy - four sword and board seems a touch ridiculous (and that's a GREAT thing).

 

And four arches could kite the living daylights out of these mobs.

 

And four dual wielding rogues could toggle stealth back and forth basically being a team of ninjas. 

 

Just turn it to easy and shut up already.

[LordParbr]

Spam barrier or spam heal? It's the same thing really.
I'd rather barrier because it seems better for lore. Didn't the writers want to make it seem that healers were rarer and not something every mage could do?

It requires you to be more tactical as well

[LordParbr]

A barrier last about 10 seconds and the cooldown is 24 seconds. The upgrade remove 4 seconds for each barriers that expire. That's a potential 16 seconds cooldown reduction if it is on the whole party. You should less or more be able to re-cast it right after it is expired with the upgrade. Then you add Clean Burn and/or Winter Stillness to reduce the cooldown even further.

IF AN ENEMY IS HITTING YOUR BARRIER, THEN ITS COOLDOWN DOESN'T MATTER.

Sorry for shouting, but I already said this

[Neuromancer]

Just turn it to easy and shut up already.

This is ridiculously condescending in a thread meant for discussion.

Please stop it.

[azarhal]

IF AN ENEMY IS HITTING YOUR BARRIER, THEN ITS COOLDOWN DOESN'T MATTER.

Sorry for shouting, but I already said this

 

That's the whole point of the upgrade: reduce the time between re-cast because characters lost their barriers.

 

Beside, a mage with Mana Surge want to have enemies hitting his/her Barrier, so they can use a detonator (like mind blast) on their frozen asses afterward.

[wtfman99]

So spamming barrier over and over is bad and dumbs down the game.

 

Spamming healing though is a good thing