218 réponses à ce sujet

[titoarc]

The problem i have with barrier is that we have only 8 skill slots, and making 1 of them a must have barrier is not helpfull in this case. I will had no problem if we could use a 15+ skill bar

[Medhia_Nox]

@Neuromancer:  Yeah, cause people are interested in "discussion" - they're interested in spewing their vitriol about an opinion they've already made about something they haven't played.  Even your title states your opinion is already made. 

 

Also - there's been so many threads whining about these topics... it's becoming a pandemic.

 

Also - I'm not ashamed to be condescending, so there's that.

[KoorahUK]

IF AN ENEMY IS HITTING YOUR BARRIER, THEN ITS COOLDOWN DOESN'T MATTER.

Sorry for shouting, but I already said this

To be fair, spamming usually refers to how often you can cast it rather than how long it is effective for. I do get what you are saying though

[Star fury]

Have any of you even SEEN warriors with guard on?  

 

Besides when they're fighting giants, dragons and pride demons... guard hardly ever seems to diminish.  Four warriors seems crazy - four sword and board seems a touch ridiculous (and that's a GREAT thing).

 

And four arches could kite the living daylights out of these mobs.

 

And four dual wielding rogues could toggle stealth back and forth basically being a team of ninjas. 

 

Just turn it to easy and shut up already.

 

If you are such an internet tough guy, you will post a screenshot with your solo playthrough on nightmare. Provided you play anything above normal.

 

You see, there is a problem with you lot, who defend every Bioware decision with staggering aggressiveness and bitterness.

[Neuromancer]

If you are such an internet tough guy, you will post a screenshot with your solo playthrough on nightmare. Provided you play anything above normal.

You see, there is a problem with you lot, who defend every Bioware decision with staggering aggressiveness and bitterness.

Please please please no more straw man from anyone!

This is about barriers and their relevance to the game and perchance them being the same as heal in a new form.

Please take it to messages if you guys feel the need to vent.

I don't want another one of my threads closed... I am staying out of these fights. I'm just here to see the posts about the barriers.

[Star fury]

Just turn it to easy and shut up already.

 

Yeah, cause people are interested in "discussion" - they're interested in spewing their vitriol about an opinion they've already made about something they haven't played. 

 

Also - there's been so many threads whining about these topics... it's becoming a pandemic.

 

I see a little contradiction here.

[eternalshiva]

8 per character (8x4 = 32 abilities total that you have access to on the fly). From what I can see, most of the abilities are upgrades from a previous one. I dunno about you but when I played DA2 and DA:O, even if I did have all my abilities on the bars (thanks to mods) I only used maybe 5-6 consistenly at best, even on nightmare.

 

I'll give you this, though. It's comforting to have the "option" but no way in hell are you going to use all 30+ abilities in a fight. "Just in case arguments" are just so... I can't even think of the word. If you fail at the battle, you go back to the skill tree and look at your options and reselect other ones, then put them back after you win the fight. It forces you to be way more tactical about a fight and think a head. If you're not into that, I feel sorry for you, but at the same time, I'm super glad about it because I like that challenge.

 

*shrugs* I just don't see the problem when Mass Effect had 8 abilities max, and your squadmates. On tough fights, you had to have a set of squadies that meshed well with your abilities to max out dmg output in the set scenario (like biotic explosions, chilled / fire bomb explosions with biotics, grenades and inceniary shots - electrical explosions with Biotics and/or inceniary) Hell, there's no healing in that game either, only a max of 8 medigels! and that was part of the 8 slots you could have on your bar.

 

The only thing I would like to have seen would have been something like Mass Effect where when you brought up your HUD on Shift, your squad's abilities showed up on the screen so you ddn't have to go from one to the next and tactic wise it was faster. That would definately be more convenient but not a game breaker.

 

 

On topic - Barrier spam replaces the heal spell spam. That's as far as I can tell.

[Itkovian]

Looks to me like Barrier is going to be absolutely essential in high-end gameplay, and I don't really see anything wrong with that. It's no worse than healing.

 

It's important to remember that the goal of the design is not to remove dependency on "healing" mages, despite what some might think. The main goal is to inject attrition to the gameplay, so as to make every fight significant even when they are not life threatening.

 

So now we will run into smaller fights that aren't meant to wipe us out, but rather are there to use up health potions if we're not careful, culminating in a life-threatening battle that will finish us if we haven't managed our resources properly.

 

Personally I'm looking forward to it.

[Medhia_Nox]

@Star Fury:  How so?  I made no claims to be having a discussion.  Those were declarative statements.

 

Saying the sky is falling - or yelling fire in a crowded theater - or otherwise crying wolf - is preposterous when someone hasn't even tried it.  "If" in the event you don't want to "spam Barrier" or the game is just SO challenging... then turn it to Easy.  There's nothing to "discuss" about it - it's a single player game where our experiences will never connect.

 

And having a dozen threads all reaching nearly 100 pages (This one will get close I'm sure)... isn't "discussion" either.  It's just people incessantly repeating baseless claims.

 

As for my vitriol... it is about an opinion that was formed from something I've experienced (these boards) - not something I have not (the game).

[LordParbr]

This is ridiculously condescending in a thread meant for discussion.

Please stop it.

no it isn't. The argument so far has been, basically "I want to be able to play however I want and not be forced to actually think about how I build my characters."

If that's the case, then they should just set it to easy and shut up. That's what easy is for.

[LordParbr]

To be fair, spamming usually refers to how often you can cast it rather than how long it is effective for. I do get what you are saying though

Well, yeah. That was my point. They said that, eventually, Barrier's duration will synch up with its cooldown, so you can hit it again as soon as it's gone. The problem is that if an enemy shuts it down (with Dispell, or the like) or breaks through it, that doesn't matter.

[Illyria God King of the Primordium]

Well, yeah. That was my point. They said that, eventually, Barrier's duration will synch up with its cooldown, so you can hit it again as soon as it's gone. The problem is that if an enemy shuts it down (with Dispell, or the like) or breaks through it, that doesn't matter.

And that requires extensive specialisation, far more than was required to make Healing OP.  

[LordParbr]

And that requires extensive specialisation, far more than was required to make Healing OP.  

Exactly. So, all those points spent with the aim of making barrier "spammable" and it's just completely shut down if a mage on the other side just casts Dispell.

[Star fury]

@Star Fury:  How so?  I made no claims to be having a discussion.  Those were declarative statements.

 

Saying the sky is falling - or yelling fire in a crowded theater - or otherwise crying wolf - is preposterous when someone hasn't even tried it.  "If" in the event you don't want to "spam Barrier" or the game is just SO challenging... then turn it to Easy.  There's nothing to "discuss" about it - it's a single player game where our experiences will never connect.

 

And having a dozen threads all reaching nearly 100 pages (This one will get close I'm sure)... isn't "discussion" either.  It's just people incessantly repeating baseless claims.

 

As for my vitriol... it is about an opinion that was formed from something I've experienced (these boards) - not something I have not (the game).

People have such discussions about changes because it is important for them, be it healing, tactics or attributes. Devs don't told them to shut up, instead Bioware representatives write long detailed posts about changes in combat and healing, explaining their decisions and thought process behind them.

 

So, I'm expecting a DAI solo playthrough on nightmare from such an elite player like you. What difficulty do you typically play?

[NRieh]

 

 

Healing is the same, you spam that as well..

What makes a barrier different?

One could (and can) heal with a potion. Barrier means you need a mage in your party. 

[LordParbr]

One could (and can) heal with a potion. Barrier means you need a mage in your party. 

Have potions been removed?

EDIT: nevermind

[Medhia_Nox]

Yes, I play Nightmare - but why would a "Solo" it?  What does that have to do with anything? 

This has absolutely nothing to do with being an "Elite" player... again, what does this have to do with anything I said?

I "could" have said it nicer - yeah, but I've already said it nicer in a dozen other threads.  What I've found - through actual experience and not conjecture - is that people aren't actually interested, at all, in hearing a rebuttal.  They want you to agree so you can be great social warriors of gaming. 

 

I could perhaps post a screenshot at the end of my playthrough that says:  Chump 1 million to beat it on nightmare.  

But what does that even prove?  It doesn't make barrier any more enjoyable to you.  It won't change your mind.  You'll just come up with another reason to hate - what you already hate.

 

=====

 

@Neuromancer:  The answer to your question?  Nobody on here knows.

 

My best possible educated guess:  Yes, barrier will be useful - yes, upgraded barrier is going to be a great strategy.... and NO, it will not be necessary, nor will it be the only strategy. 

 

If I cared enough - I'd do a playthrough with no Barrier... but my mage is built around it, so it won't happen on my initial playthrough.

[Keroko]

I think barrier it's pretty much the new healing

 

Well, yes and no. Yes, the end-goal of barrier and heals are the same ("don't die") but their method of use varies.

 

A heal spell in Origins is usually cast when a certain damage threshold is reached (the threshold varying per player, some heal the moment health hits about 50%, others risk a heal only at 20%), at which point it doesn't really matter what you're fighting. If it's a giant gollem that smacks to that threshold in one hit or a longer fight where that threshold is hit later, the healing will function the same.

 

Barrier though? Employing that needs a different kind of approach. If you're fighting that giant gollem, you'll want to wait until the golem uses his giant "I'm going to take a huge chunk out of your health" punch rather than waste it on his smaller punches.

 

 

I'm with you on this but to be fair Xil was specifically talking about having a 4 mage party. 

 

Its worth noting though that 2 mages with only 2 points spent in Barrier each will allow a mage party to ping pong barrier almost constantly, received damage and mana management being the variables on the barriers duration. 2 points is hardly a heavy investment. 

 

Oh, well yeah. But a mage party has the advantage of also having a crapton of CC, which helps mitigate the need for barriers.
 

[LordParbr]

I would, personally, like to play a jack-of-all-trades mage. The thing is, I know that isn't a viable option. I'll have to specialize in some role for the party, whether it's control, debilitation, healer, DPS, or even tanking might be a viable option for a mage. I know that if I try to do a little of everything, I'll just be a hinderence to the party. So, what I do is suck it up, realize that this can be as fun as that, other people prefer it this way, and if I really want to play the other way, I can just drop the difficulty. The game was not made for me. The game was made for everyone, with tactics and strategy in mind.

You're not going to be able to play exactly as you want. So, find a happy medium, or drop the difficulty.

[Medhia_Nox]

@Lord Parbr:

[lady_v23]

Well, yes and no. Yes, the end-goal of barrier and heals are the same ("don't die") but their method of use varies.

A heal spell in Origins is usually cast when a certain damage threshold is reached (the threshold varying per player, some heal the moment health hits about 50%, others risk a heal only at 20%), at which point it doesn't really matter what you're fighting. If it's a giant gollem that smacks to that threshold in one hit or a longer fight where that threshold is hit later, the healing will function the same.

Barrier though? Employing that needs a different kind of approach. If you're fighting that giant gollem, you'll want to wait until the golem uses his giant "I'm going to take a huge chunk out of your health" punch rather than waste it on his smaller punches.



Oh, well yeah. But a mage party has the advantage of also having a crapton of CC, which helps mitigate the need friends or barriers.

Well I was talking about the dependency. But if you want to go technical you're right

[LordParbr]

@Lord Parbr:

Sir?

[Illyria God King of the Primordium]

One could (and can) heal with a potion. Barrier means you need a mage in your party. 

Nope.  You don't need one.  It's handy.  But entirely nonessential.  

[Star fury]

But what does that even prove?  It doesn't make barrier any more enjoyable to you.  It won't change your mind.  You'll just come up with another reason to hate - what you already hate.

 

Just turn it to easy and shut up already.

 

 spewing their vitriol about an opinion they've already made about something they haven't played. 

 

 there's been so many threads whining about these topics... it's becoming a pandemic.

 

You sure know a thing or two about hate.

[Illyria God King of the Primordium]

You sure know a thing or two about hate.

To be fair, that isn't hatred.  It's frustration.  Mostly because I, and presumably Medhia_Nox, fail to understand your position (partly because you tend to ad hominem arguments and sarcasm, which aren't very useful for making one's point clear).  

 

I can see how the system could work as intended.  As to whether it does or not, we'll see.  But you and some others seem to be determined to see it as failing.  

 

Oh, and turn it to easy isn't an insult, or shouldn't be.