38 réponses à ce sujet

[hw78]

Yeah, that I can understand.

I still don't think its a reason not to include those options in the DA2 section though because now it just looks like they don't want to. Like DA2's nuances don't matter and, well, those nuances mattered a lot.

That's what frustrates me. Bioware puts these choices into the game but then they don't give you the option to record them? Coding is hard, I've done some frustrating projects myself, and yes they're under pressure for this stuff to go well and be ready for Launch Day. Does that mean it'll just never ever happen?

Honestly I'd be happy if they told us they have plans to implement it somewhere down the line, even if it isn't up right now. Or else why should I bother buying Bioware games if they just railroad you later?

What I liked about the Andersmance is that I could pair him with a bisexual character like me. That's why this is really important to me. But if that journey in its fullness Just Won't Ever Happen, then that's it I guess. I won't purchase DA3, simple as that. :shrug:

[Evamitchelle]

Yeah, that I can understand.

I still don't think its a reason not to include those options in the DA2 section though because now it just looks like they don't want to. Like DA2's nuances don't matter and, well, those nuances mattered a lot.

That's what frustrates me. Bioware puts these choices into the game but then they don't give you the option to record them? Coding is hard, I've done some frustrating projects myself, and yes they're under pressure for this stuff to go well and be ready for Launch Day. Does that mean it'll just never ever happen?

Honestly I'd be happy if they told us they have plans to implement it somewhere down the line, even if it isn't up right now. Or else why should I bother buying Bioware games if they just railroad you later?

What I liked about the Andersmance is that I could pair him with a bisexual character like me. That's why this is really important to me. But if that journey in its fullness Just Won't Ever Happen, then that's it I guess. I won't purchase DA3, simple as that. :shrug:

 

Bioware aren't making games just so you can have more options to import later. I assume they still want people to enjoy the game for what it is, rather than the possible plot points it might set up in possible sequels. I could get this line of thinking if Hawke was returning as protagonist, but they're not. Even if the option was in the Keep it probably wouldn't be reflected in-game because Hawke appears to be little more than a cameo, and the Inquisitor isn't likely to grill them on their personal life. 

[Ranadiel Marius]

So let me make sure I got this right, you bought DA2 despite the fact that it did not import what romances you ended (and at launch failed importing you active romances fairly frequently) but when DAI does the exact same thing that is a step too far and you refuse to purchase it?

[hw78]

I only played DAO once and it imported my story just fine. I'm not terribly attached to it. Dragon Age 2 I only picked up a year ago, I don't any PTSD regarding its crappy state on Launch Day that the rest of the forum has.

What's more, the Keep was implemented to FIX those import problems. They've fixed the problems with the DAO plot and are smoothing out the bugs now. If its not doing what its supposed to do in regard to both games then there is a problem.

I'm not asking for anything earthshaking, which neither of you are acknowledging. I'm asking for basic continuity which Bioware managed perfectly well with the Mass Effect series. If they can't do that much that's a red flag for me about the game's quality, because if they can't do that...what else is wrong?

Bioware aren't making games just so you can have more options to import later. I assume they still want people to enjoy the game for what it is, rather than the possible plot points it might set up in possible sequels. I could get this line of thinking if Hawke was returning as protagonist, but they're not. Even if the option was in the Keep it probably wouldn't be reflected in-game because Hawke appears to be little more than a cameo, and the Inquisitor isn't likely to grill them on their personal life.

By this logic, almost none of the myriad of choices in the DAO section matter either because the Warden doesn't appear. Hell, one of the love interests (Zevran) isn't even in the game, and yet he's still a Keep option. :shrug: I think your logic here is flawed, neighbor.

[Evamitchelle]

I only played DAO once and it imported my story just fine. I'm not terribly attached to it. Dragon Age 2 I only picked up a year ago, I don't have any PTSD regarding its crappy state on Launch Day that the rest of the forum has.

 

Really ? You're gonna compare a legitimate mental condition to people not being happy because of import bugs ? Especially when this is literally what you are doing, except you're doing to DAI (which hasn't even launched yet, so there's no way to tell how that particular import will be handled in-game) instead of DA2.
 

What's more, the Keep was implemented to FIX those import problems. They've fixed the problems with the DAO plot and are smoothing out the bugs now. If its not doing what its supposed to do in regard to both games then there is a problem.

I'm not asking for anything earthshaking, which neither of you are acknowledging. I'm asking for basic continuity which Bioware managed perfectly well with the Mass Effect series. If they can't do that much that's a red flag for me about the game's quality, because if they can't do that...what else is wrong?

Oh I acknowledged it: "Ideally there'd be an option to mention past romances (like in your case, romanced Anders until the Chantry, or romanced Alistair until the Landsmeet), but unless Hawke shows up with their LI in tow I don't think the subject will be approached all that much in DAI, so those options could always be added later." Just because I recognize the limitations doesn't mean I don't want the option in the Keep.

[Ranadiel Marius]

It was made to fix import bugs. Not importing ended romances was a design decision not a bug. They have made the design decision not to include ended romances from DA2 for w/e reason, and even if they were to add them to the Keep at this point (which I believe they have indicated that they aren't) that wouldn't change that DAI won't recognize them.

If that is enough to make you not want DAI, well I think you are being extremely silly, but then you probably should skip DAI....side note, pretty sure ME2 didn't recognize an ended romance either. Dunno about ME3.

[hw78]

Really ? You're gonna compare a legitimate mental condition to people not being happy because of import bugs ? Especially when this is literally what you are doing, except you're doing to DAI (which hasn't even launched yet, so there's no way to tell how that particular import will be handled in-game) instead of DA2.

Considering I have survived stalking and abuse in my meatspace life? And have been in therapy for those things, have been recommended medication to deal with my suicide attempts? Yes, I feel comfortable using it. I am pretty intimate with how mental illness can destroy a person's life. I am bery comfortable joking about these problems because humor is the most effective method for me to deal with the fact that I hate waking up in the morning because it means I'm still alive.

Don't talk down to me about mental illness.

And this right here is why I would like a developer, like say Renata, who said we could ask questions, to explain this. Because if I had been getting DA2 off the bat, I would have returned it if it was in that state and moved on to other games.

Oh I acknowledged it: "Ideally there'd be an option to mention past romances (like in your case, romanced Anders until the Chantry, or romanced Alistair until the Landsmeet), but unless Hawke shows up with their LI in tow I don't think the subject will be approached all that much in DAI, so those options could always be added later." Just because I recognize the limitations doesn't mean I don't want the option in the Keep.

I think you're actually getting madder about this then I am. You're getting angry and acting like I'm asking for something unreasonable, you keep coming up with reasons why it migjt not happen or why its stupid of me to want the option. That is why I said you're not acknowledging it.

This is also why a developer clearing this up would be nice but I doubt that'll happen now.

If that is enough to make you not want DAI, well I think you are being extremely silly, but then you probably should skip DAI....side note, pretty sure ME2 didn't recognize an ended romance either. Dunno about ME3.

My imports to ME2 worked just fine for me, though any bugs caused a lot of rage storms, I'm certain.

If you want petty reasons not to buy DAI? Check out the players that are still furious about DA2's reused dungeon layouts and how that has ruined Bioware for them forever and that they'll never get DAI. My hand to god, I've seen that said.

[Evamitchelle]

Considering I have survived stalking and abuse in my meatspace life? And have been in therapy for those things, have been recommended medication to deal with my suicide attempts? Yes, I feel comfortable using it. I am pretty intimate with how mental illness can destroy a person's life. I am very comfortable joking about these problems because humor is the most effective method for me to deal with the fact that I hate waking up in the morning because it means I'm still alive.

Don't talk down to me about mental illness.

I'm glad that you are comfortable joking about those things, but not everyone is able to find humor in their own mental illness, and this is a public board, not your private space. 
 

And this right here is why I would like a developer, like say Renata, who said we could ask questions, to explain this. Because if I had been getting DA2 off the bat, I would have returned it if it was in that state and moved on to other games.


I think you're actually getting madder about this then I am. You're getting angry and acting like I'm asking for something unreasonable, you keep coming up with reasons why it migjt not happen or why its stupid of me to want the option. That is why I said you're not acknowledging it.

This is also why a developer clearing this up would be nice but I doubt that'll happen now.

 

I'm not getting mad ? You asked questions and I thought I could answer them. And where do you get the idea that I'm calling you stupid ? I literally said that I would also like to have this option in the Keep. 

[hw78]

I will try to explain. This is the part that read as hostile to me:

Bioware aren't making games just so you can have more options to import later.

If this were an RPG with a set hero, like Final Fantasy or something, then it wouldn't matter. But I posed this question in the first place because this particular breed of RPG is based off these questions mattering. Bioware games are not exclusively about continuity and keeping everything the way it was left, but it is a significant chunk of it or else this whole thing wouldn't be a big deal and they wouldn't need something like the Keep. Continuity allows a degree of customization to this product that's hard to find in other games (if it can be found at all, I'm not an expert.)

And getting responses like the above read as hostile because you're negating that, like a bunch of other people like negating it, and pretending it isn't a thing. I'm not sure if that can be taken as anything but hostile, really. That's just implying that saves don't matter to the game. I mean, yeah, when you're designing it you don't hang the adventure on previous save states. On the other hand they're giving us the option here. Bioware doesn't make games to import our options into but it would be nice to have it all.

I'm glad we both want the same option in the Keep, but it's confusing to see it dismissed like that and then see "oh but I want the same thing." That's the crux of my issue here.

[Justin Edmond]

That's why I want a developer to reply though, because there's no telling how difficult that would be to implement when that exact option is present in the DAO section -- Alistair and the Warden break up once you hit the right choices. It is befuddling that DA2 doesn't have that.

 

 

Incoming developer!

I can give you quite a bit of background how we ended up where we are today

 

The first issue we ran into was that Chronicling the relationships can get dangerously complex and this is something we ran into previously in early alpha. Once you start adding these little subtle questions, they start to knock on a LOT of other issues, suddenly a lot of previously unrelated events start to become related. You still see the remnants of some of these kind of issues with Alistair and the ruler in the end of DAO.

 

Secondly, there is a slippery slope here. If we do it for one relationship, we likely need to do it for all the relationships. This can be dangerous because you could realistically do another Keep of the same size of only significant relationship decisions. We had to draw a line and we chose to take more of a "final summary" rather than chronicled approach.

 

Finally, Dragon age games are not temporally reliable. That is to say that things don't happen in the same order for everyone in each play-through. This can cause a LOT of really weird edge cases, and bogged us down several times (especially in DAO.) 

 

Even with all these restraints and simplifications, we've still ended up with over twice as many valid world states than there are grains of sand on every beach in the entire world. Its easy to forget that under the hood there is some crazy math going on making the world state valid

 

The last thing I have to say is that Bioware is known for its team of talented writers. We have done our best with the Keep and I feel very proud of what was accomplished, I have complete faith that using the information we help the user assemble the writing team will be able to honour your decisions and story

 

Hopefully that helps explain why these decision were made, I assure you it wasn't an easy decision

[hw78]

This is what I wanted to know. Thank you for taking the time to write all this up, it does clear up a lot of things. We'll see how it works out, hopefully it'll be okay.

[Justin Edmond]

This is what I wanted to know. Thank you for taking the time to write all this up, it does clear up a lot of things. We'll see how it works out, hopefully it'll be okay.

Its cool, I'll just blame you if one of my features doesn't make it into this next buid

[hw78]

Its cool, I'll just blame you if one of my features doesn't make it into this next buid

nooooo my plan is disco-- I mean, jolly good then

[Natureguy85]

I understand the complexity and complications involved, but I do wish they could track relationships that started and ended. They are part of a character's past and could possibly affect them just as much as still being with the Warden or Hawke. This is especially true with Morrigan since she is the one who asks to stop the relationship where other characters will usually only do it if you make them mad through a particular action.