556 réponses à ce sujet

[TheChris92]

The way I see it is this -- The story in Origins and its expansions, were in regards to the Blight and the Grey Wardens, a big factor of Thedas which was thorougly elaborated through 1 game, 1 expansion pack and quite a few DLC side-stories. The expansion pack delved a bit deeper into the mindset of the Darkspawn, granting them duality by introducing intelligent Darkspawn.. It's safe to say that all of this was more than enough coverage on the subject matter of the Wardens and Darkspawn, so that we may move on to something else -- That something else being Mages & Templars apparently, or Qunari, or maybe it was a personal story, or see how long you can stretch a game with the total of about 7 rooms, I don't know -- It's hard to say what exactly DA2's story was about. 

 

I think the larger point is that the Warden factored into the story of Darkspawn & The Blight; Now that the focus has shifted to something else it's also moved to a new cast of characters which is good because it makes the world feel alive and rich with new stories to tell. It baffles me that people are so stubborn as to not let go of the old characters and allow themselves to fall in love with new characters. It's rather strange, really.

 

To me the best games out there are the self-contained ones, the ones that aren't dragged down by baggage of prequels, continuations or whatever, stories that can necessarily be sequels, but are still self-contained and also uses the fundamental good parts of the predecessors as a jumping point for a whole new story and mechanics etc.

[Chari]

And what help could the Warden be? What unique aid do they bring? Influence in Ferelden? We're probably going to meet Anora/Alistair so that's unneeded. Wardens to fight Darkspawn? We have those. So how is the HoF so specially equipped that the Inquisition would go out of their way to seek him out?

They are legendary heroes who excel at killing demons, monsters, people and old gods
Also at resolving political conflicts
Pretty useful if you ask me

[LiliththeWolfheart]

Well, if you noticed. I personally didn't mention The Warden at all, as far as players having Rights goes. That was just a general statement. See my Witch Hunt post about the Warden.

 

It's very difficult to argue about the choice and power players have within and outside of the game.  Technically, what choice and power we do possess is not our own in the first place - the ability to choose, and what we choose, is provided for us, so any debate based around this concept is rather flawed due to this.

[sylvanaerie]

With good writing, and i believe that talented Bioware guys are capable of(that is why i support them even after quite a few screw ups), you can make Warden matter trough different characters, Morrigan, Alistair, Leliana, Sten, that kid you gave sword to, and he become hero himself, you can actually make a guy a presence without him getting even a 5 min of "airtime".

 

This would be wonderful to me, plenty of ways he could be involved in the story, but not actually showing him.  But a lot of people are posting they want the HoF to be smack dab center of the universe with a lot of improbably storyline.  These are the players I'm talking about who won't be satisfied no matter what Bioware does.  Because if they do get what they want, the next wailing and gnashing of teeth will be "That's not what my warden would do!!!"   

Making it worse is the scenarios most of the fans are coming up with are so out there in probability that I still think Bioware is 'damned if they do and damned if they don't'.  

 

I wish they'd never said anything about the warden disappearing, but if you recall, at the end of Awakenings, the Warden vanishes after several years.  This wasn't some throwaway line they did for DA2.  It's something they have planned for a while.  A lot of players don't want to just wait and see what Bioware has in store for them, they want all the answers right now. 

[LiliththeWolfheart]

Also guys, confirmed, the blonde warden next to Hawke is Alistair, a screenshot of King Alistair was released. Same guy.

 

If that's true then my brother owes me

[Chari]

The way I see it is this -- The story in Origins and its expansions, were in regards to the Blight and the Grey Wardens, a big factor of Thedas which was thorougly elaborated through 1 game, 1 expansion pack and quite a few DLC side-stories. The expansion pack delved a bit deeper into the mindset of the Darkspawn, granting them duality by introducing intelligent Darkspawn.. It's safe to say that all of this was more than enough coverage on the subject matter of the Wardens and Darkspawn, so that we may move on to something else -- That something else being Mages & Templars apparently, or Qunari, or maybe it was a personal story, or see how long you can stretch a game with the total of about 7 rooms, I don't know -- It's hard to say what exactly DA2's story was about.

I think the larger point is that the Warden factored into the story of Darkspawn & The Blight; Now that the focus has shifted to something else it's also moved to a new cast of characters which is good because it makes the world feel alive and rich with stories to tell. It baffles me that people are so stubborn as to not let go of the old characters and allow themselves to fall in love with new characters. It's rather strange, really.

It is a strange concept that in order to love new characters we have to forget and abandon the old ones
Because I love them all
The old ones I love much more, though

[TheRevanchist]

This would be wonderful to me, plenty of ways he could be involved in the story, but not actually showing him.  But a lot of people are posting they want the HoF to be smack dab center of the universe with a lot of improbably storyline.  These are the players I'm talking about who won't be satisfied no matter what Bioware does.  Because if they do get what they want, the next wailing and gnashing of teeth will be "That's not what my warden would do!!!"   

Making it worse is the scenarios most of the fans are coming up with are so out there in probability that I still think Bioware is 'damned if they do and damned if they don't'.  

 

I wish they'd never said anything about the warden disappearing, but if you recall, at the end of Awakenings, the Warden vanishes after several years.  This wasn't some throwaway line they did for DA2.  It's something they have planned for a while.  A lot of players don't want to just wait and see what Bioware has in store for them, they want all the answers right now. 

 

Because they probably DONT have ANY plans for them at all. Why else would they continue to wrongly assure us their story is "over"?

[Quaddis]

And what help could the Warden be? What unique aid do they bring? Influence in Ferelden? We're probably going to meet Anora/Alistair so that's unneeded. Wardens to fight Darkspawn? We have those. So how is the HoF so specially equipped that the Inquisition would go out of their way to seek him out?

If you actually need an explanation why a guy who has influence over Alistair like a dog owner over his puppy, leader of a highly trained army, extremely capable military leader, Arl of one of the richest places in world, and living hero worshiped by peasants, respected by soldiers all over the world, and feared by enemies, would be good for your cause, then you do not have very good understanding of politics and military affairs.

[TheChris92]

It is a strange concept that in order to love new characters we have to forget and abandon the old ones
Because I love them all
The old ones I love much more, though

No, it really isn't. I didn't have to like the characters of KOTOR 1 to appreciate the ones in KOTOR 2 because I didn't play the first game at the time. Besides, the point isn't that one should forget the old, but rather it should be open to new characters, stories, approaches, instead of wallowing in the original. It's no different with any other game. I think the opposite is strange.

[LiliththeWolfheart]

Considering you call your point of view objective and an opposite one subjective I guess there is indeed no chance for a proper discussion

 

I'm sorry, I think you've misunderstood me and I've been too broad in my terms.  By subjective, I meant you looked at the situation from an "above the line" perspective - how it could help your character, the Inquisition, things generally from within the game etc.  I've been viewing it more from a writer's point of view, the effect from outside of the game.  I'm sorry for being confusing.

[robertthebard]

Because they probably DONT have ANY plans for them at all. Why else would they continue to wrongly assure us their story is "over"?

How do you get to tell them that their character's story is or isn't over? Did you buy them out from under EA or something?

[Chari]

No, it really isn't. I didn't have to like the characters of KOTOR 1 to appreciate the ones in KOTOR 2 because I didn't play the first game at the time. Besides, the point isn't that one should forget the old, but rather it should be open to the new instead of wallowing in the original. It's no different with any other game. I think the opposite is strange.

And why do you think we are not open?
Preferring one over another does not mean hating. It means having an opinion

[sylvanaerie]

Because they probably DONT have ANY plans for them at all. Why else would they continue to wrongly assure us their story is "over"?

 

If you have so little faith in Bioware's story why are you still playing the game?  And if you have no plans to buy and play Inquisition, why would you care what is in it?  

[Chari]

I'm sorry, I think you've misunderstood me and I've been too broad in my terms. By subjective, I meant you looked at the situation from an "above the line" perspective - how it could help your character, the Inquisition, things generally from within the game etc. I've been viewing it more from a writer's point of view, the effect from outside of the game. I'm sorry for being confusing.

I understand both points
I just dont think they have to exclude each other

[TheChris92]

And why do you think we are not open?
Preferring one over another does not mean hating. It means having an opinion

The fact that you're too busy wallowing in your kinship to the protagonist of Origins, instead of trying to be open minded about falling in love with new characters and a new protagonist is what draws me to that conclusion.

[TheRevanchist]

How do you get to tell them that their character's story is or isn't over? Did you buy them out from under EA or something?

Because as I've pointed out several times. Which Hunt is not, by any measure, a proper ending to a character story. Period.

[LiliththeWolfheart]

If this is relevant: it appears that the Wardens have also split into sub-factions, like those who are under the control of Corypheus have split from the main body of the Wardens; perhaps this is perhaps what the Warden storyline in Inquisition revolves around?  Don't quote me on this.

[Seryuu]

If you have so little faith in Bioware's story why are you still playing the game?  And if you have no plans to buy and play Inquisition, why would you care what is in it?  

 

Did you actually read what he wrote ?

[LiliththeWolfheart]

I understand both points
I just dont think they have to exclude each other

 

Fair enough

[TheRevanchist]

If you have so little faith in Bioware's story why are you still playing the game?  And if you have no plans to buy and play Inquisition, why would you care what is in it?  

 

Because I love the IP, and love is selfish and illogical. 

[sylvanaerie]

If you actually need an explanation why a guy who has influence over Alistair like a dog owner over his puppy, leader of a highly trained army, extremely capable military leader, Arl of one of the richest places in world, and living hero worshiped by peasants, respected by soldiers all over the world, and feared by enemies, would be good for your cause, then you do not have very good understanding of politics and military affairs.

HoF is not an Arl.  He can become Teryn of Gwaren...but that's not 'one of the richest places in the world'.  This descriptive doesn't fit any of my wardens.  Except maybe my King Cousland (somewhat).

[LiliththeWolfheart]

Because as I've pointed out several times. Which Hunt is not, by any measure, a proper ending to a character story. Period.

 

Of course it's not.  I think, by the term you used - "The Warden's story is over" - it means that Your story with the Warden is over.  Whether you want to see it this way or not, The Warden is as much Bioware's as it is ours.  They played Origins too.  I don't think that Bioware would treat their own creation with malicious intent just to screw over the fans.

[Chari]

The fact that you're too busy wallowing in your kinship to the protagonist of Origins, instead of trying to be open minded about falling in love with new characters and a new protagonist is what draws me to that conclusion.

I do not recall saying a single bad thing about the Inquisitor
Heck, even my bitter remarks about Hawke are mostly due to them being in a spotlight rather than my personal attitude towards the character
One can like.different PCs while preferring one over others

[KC_Prototype]

Yes! At least we know he/she is in the game somehow. I would prefer having them actually appear in game but...sending Leliana will have to do. I hope Leliana is the one that only can go, makes the most since. Does anybody know where that is? Circle of Magi?