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SPOILER! Regarding the Warden in DA:I


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#376
Chari

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The Warden got away with a lot of what they did because they where grey wardens during the middle of the blight, which basically means they have the right to do whatever the heck they want through whatever means they deem fit, Hawke was a Refugee in literally the worst city in Thedas, never even coming close to having the amount of Freedom and power the Warden had, so yeah they did worse then the warden, put any of the wardens in Hawke's shoes and I doubt they would have done much better.

The Warden is great when it comes to fighting darkspawn and making sure people focus on fighting darkspawn, guess what's not the primary antagonist of this game? Hawke at least has experience with the mage templar conflict

Spoiler
so their involvement makes sense.

But that's what makes our Wardens wardens. It is essential. Plus better writing

Who is, by the way, a darkspawn. And since certain moustache warden does help Hawke it seems the problem is connected to the grey wardens
Heck, as far as I know we start the quest in which we meet Hawke by messaging our Warden

#377
AceHalberd

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This, a thousand times this. The Warden is not the Shepard of Thedas, they are not the Alpha hero of this setting, they are the first we played as simple as that. Yes giving them a cameo or something would be nice but what would they bring to the table that would be worth the sheer amount of effort it would take to realize it and the ire it would draw from fans even if they got it right? More importantly, what would they bring to the table that a companion from awakening or Origins wouldn't?  Hawke has an established voice, hawke has generally definable possible personalities, Hawke was involved in a lot of stuff that had effects far beyond Kirkwall. Hawke is all around far easier to incorporate into the story and actually give it meaning.

 

 

I don't want another Revan in TOR.

 

Hawke only had three worthwhile contributions in all of DA2:

  1. Delivering Flemeth's amulet (which she may have managed despite Hawke; appointment or not, she'd probably fly the amulet to the Sabre clan herself if it came to it).
  2. Providing Batrand's expeditions the funds to go into the Deep Roads (which, if didn't happen the world would arguably be a much better place and the whole rebellion thing may never have happened; non-insane Meredith probably would of conceeded Anders was the only guilty party if his actions came to fruition after all).
  3. Being around to release Corypheus (which, if they weren't, the world would again be a much better place).

Other than that, everything else happened around Hawke, not because of them; it may of even been possible for the whole game to play out exactly as it did without Hawke if Bartrand eventually caved and let Dougal in on the expedition. Say what you want about the Warden, but Hawke really is not a better hero in this situation merely for having been at the right place at the right time. The only advantage they offer over the Warden is to help solve the matters they themselves created.


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#378
TheCreeper

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Hawke only had three worthwhile contributions in all of DA2:

  1. Delivering Flemeth's amulet (which she may have managed despite Hawke; appointment or not, she'd probably fly the amulet to the Sabre clan herself if it came to it).
  2. Providing Batrand's expeditions the funds to go into the Deep Roads (which, if didn't happen the world would arguably be a much better place and the whole rebellion thing may never have happened; non-insane Meredith probably would of conceeded Anders was the only guilty party if his actions came to fruition after all).
  3. Being around to release Corypheus (which, if they weren't, the world would again be a much better place).

Other than that, everything else happened around Hawke, not because of them; it may of even been possible for the whole game to play out exactly as it did without Hawke if Bartrand eventually caved and let Dougal in on the expedition. Say what you want about the Warden, but Hawke really is not a better hero in this situation merely for having been at the right place at the right time. They only advantage they offer over the Warden is to help solve the matters they themselves created.

But that's the thing, these are Hawke's mistakes, which makes them bitter fit to sort it all out because they at least have a better understanding of what they are. Hawke's seen what Red Lyrium does to a person's mind and body, Hawke spent the better part of the decade in a city that became the living embodiment of the conflict between mages and Templars and knew people on both sides quite well,  they've dealt with a powerful Duke of Orlais first hand.

 

Spoiler

 

Hawke just fits better into the story, plain and simple.


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#379
ewauksonian

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Bleh, Dragon Age 2's story. I could have lived with its combat if the game had better writing. 


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#380
Dermain

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Like they did in DAO and DA2 :P
Considering that you guys are just obsessed with the Warden not appearing and "proving" how "weak" they actually are and how "stupid" their fans are, I wouldn't call you Warden fans
Otherwise people wanting to see the Warden get recognition they deserve wouldn't anger you

 

Really?

 

Is that my reasoning? 

 

Again, I'm so grateful that other people know my thought processes better than myself. What would I ever do without you?

 

And here I thought my point was that the developers stated that the Warden's story was over, and that Dragon Age universe is NOT about the Warden's story. Origins was about the Warden, but the Warden's story ended there. BioWare has been quite clear on that front even before (if I recall correctly) Origins was released. Dragon Age isn't a trilogy about the same character constantly saving the world like Shepard did in Mass Effect 3, and I doubt it ever will be since they've stated that each Dragon Age game will feature a new protagonist.

 

If BioWare were to show the Warden in any future game it would no longer be "your Warden". It would be yet another NPC that the protagonist would encounter that would be entirely designed by BioWare, but it does have the added bonus (I guess you could call it that) of being a character you previously played. In this case, any possible fan fiction you came up involving your Warden never happened, and likely will not have ANY resemblance with "your Warden" at all. 

 

None of this shows that I "hate" the Warden or any of your other profound statements about why I'm fine with the Warden not appearing in any other Dragon Age game besides Origins.

 

Hawke only had three worthwhile contributions in all of DA2:

  1. Delivering Flemeth's amulet (which she may have managed despite Hawke; appointment or not, she'd probably fly the amulet to the Sabre clan herself if it came to it).
  2. Providing Batrand's expeditions the funds to go into the Deep Roads (which, if didn't happen the world would arguably be a much better place and the whole rebellion thing may never have happened; non-insane Meredith probably would of conceeded Anders was the only guilty party if his actions came to fruition after all).
  3. Being around to release Corypheus (which, if they weren't, the world would again be a much better place).

Other than that, everything else happened around Hawke, not because of them; it may of even been possible for the whole game to play out exactly as it did without Hawke if Bartrand eventually caved and let Dougal in on the expedition. Say what you want about the Warden, but Hawke really is not a better hero in this situation merely for having been at the right place at the right time. The only advantage they offer over the Warden is to help solve the matters they themselves created.

 

The rebellion would have happened regardless of Hawke's involvement.

 

Corypheus' seals were beginning to break long before Hawke showed up.

 

In fact, since it was Janeka who ordered the Carta to attack Hawke in order to draw Hawke to the Vimmark Mountains so that she could bind Corypheus with blood magic to end all of the blights.

 

I think Janeka shares some, if not all, of the blame for the whole Corypheus debacle. 


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#381
Draninus

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My personal thoughts on this is that it would be perfectly fine to have the Warden appear with a VA and a "set" personality.  All of my Wardens had a set personality....it wasn't really any different from Hawke other than the lack of a VA.  I encountered some sort of scenario, was given a bunch of different dialogue choices and then chose based off how I was role playing on that particular playthrough.  The only difference was that Hawke literally spoke and the Warden did not.  Big deal.

 

Honestly, considering the time that has passed, I wouldn't expect him to be exactly "my" Warden anymore either.  People grow and change over time.  I don't think it would be that hard for Bioware to do this and execute in a generally acceptable fashion.  That's just my opinion of course.  Ultimately I'll deal with whatever as  this sounds like it's going to be an excellent game.  I can't say I'm not disappointed about the notion of the "more then passing reference" being an advisor mission.  I'll keep my fingers crossed that isn't the case and there is something more that they are keeping under wraps.



#382
dsl08002

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It could be though i highly doubt it, that it could be a story mission that starts with a advisor mission. You have to contac HoF then the mission begins from there. I doubt it, but it calms me down.

#383
LonewandererD

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^here's hoping its an actual mission

 

-D-



#384
Applepie_Svk

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Had to double-check. Yep.

DA:O Anora is a 8.7/10
DA:I Anora is a 4.5/10

20091220161005Anora_265.jpg

do u realize that she aged in years?

#385
sylvanaerie

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I'm off for half a day and this thread suddenly gets 10 pages of Hawke v. Warden. The hell happened?

 

-D-

It is a well known Bioware Social Network fact that "All threads eventually devolve to Alistair vs Loghain" or "Warden vs Hawke".  At this point I just grab popcorn, sit back and enjoy the show.



#386
AceHalberd

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do u realize that she aged in years?

 

O ya shed b 40 now ew grows.

...

 

 

10/10.



#387
Googleness

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It's not about cameo's of any specific characters rather then plots which left open.

 

let's take my DA:O\A playthrough as an example:

My warden was a mage (hawke's cousin) human male, he had romanced morrigan and had OGB with her. At the end of the DLC he went into the mirror with her.

Next on the DA:2 ending they state he went missing, while in DA:I we can see morrigan is back.

So... 

where is the warden now? alive? dead? and where is God junior? just need to close those corners with the plot.

 

in DA2 we had some very minor points with DA:O plot like Codex on the blight or meeting Alistair but plot still not at an end.

 

There could be even more complex situations...

How about HN warden which married alistair\anora to rule the kingdom while having OGB with Morrigan and then stab her near the mirror... where is that guy\gal? 


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#388
Quaddis

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So...all you "The Warden is a darkspawn killing specialist and useless in this situation" people didn't really play Awakening?


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#389
Eternal Phoenix

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Apparently, I didn't even reconize him, and was confused lol.

 

I'm glad he's back. It means we get to hear his awesome voice again.



#390
Spacemannegie

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Why not do the same with the Warden/HoF as they did with Revan (Kotor)? They just made the male Lightside Revan canon. It is this Revan that turns up in Star Wars the Old Republic.

 

Perhaps it is possible make a "canon Hof" and have him/her appear in DAI?



#391
TheRevanchist

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So...all you "The Warden is a darkspawn killing specialist and useless in this situation" people didn't really play Awakening?

idk but apparently The Warden is ONLY capable of killing Darkspawn and DOING LITERALLY NOTHING ELSE.


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#392
TheRevanchist

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Why not do the same with the Warden/HoF as they did with Revan (Kotor)? They just made the male Lightside Revan canon. It is this Revan that turns up in Star Wars the Old Republic.

 

Perhaps it is possible make a "canon Hof" and have him/her appear in DAI?

 

We...do not speak...of SWTOR Revan...


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#393
Googleness

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We...do not speak...of SWTOR Revan...

so much this.



#394
Quaddis

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idk but apparently The Warden is ONLY capable of killing Darkspawn and DOING LITERALLY NOTHING ELSE.

He is not rich, he does not have Warden army at his hand, and definitely he does not have any kind of standing army, Warden or Amaranthine City Guard that are now experienced in fighting creatures that makes demons look like 8 year old girls playing with barbies, and there is definitely no non-warden contingent in Amaranthine Keep, he also do not have any kind of influence on Alistair whatsoever. 
This is feudal times and the fact is, Warden who survived Archdemon, is most powerful person in Ferelden. Not king and certainly not queen.



#395
robertthebard

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I like the idea of BW using their canon Warden.  It would alleviate all of these threads, but the rage would be internet shattering, since BW's canon Warden is a DE female, who died defeating the Archdemon.  It comes full circle to my idea that BW wrote themselves into a corner by adding the DR, a choice they probably thought would be a lot more popular than it was, thereby allowing a "one off" protagonist to stick around.  Not to mention the "scandal" of the OGB.  Raise your hand if you recall all the threads about how the Inquisitor was the OGB.  *raises hand*  Raise your hand if you remember Word of God striking down that absurd theory.  *Raises hand*

 

"But we just want the Warden to get the recognition he/she deserves".  They did, in Origins/Awakening.  My not so canon Warden was a jewel, as far as the wardens were concerned, since I let Amaranthine burn to save the Keep.  It's not like the Nobles were any different from Howe, and didn't "deserve" their fate by trying to undermine what I was assigned to do, rebuild the Wardens in Ferelden.  Holy crap, that means, as far as Amaranthine is concerned, that I'm no better than Anders in DA2, right?  I'd say that any survivors of that debacle would be pretty anti-HoF, if not anti-Warden.  After all, they were sacrificed to save the Warden Stronghold.

 

See what I did there?  I used my canon story to write the history of the 5th blight.  The Warden doesn't come out a hero, as far as Amaranthine is concerned.  Oddly enough, my canon Warden was pretty close to BW's.  A F DE, who romanced Alistair, but was dumped by him for being surprised to learn that he was heir to the throne.  The end result was that, since a Shem is a Shem, and betrayal is betrayal, she allowed Loghain to live, and banished Alistair.  She told Morrigan to take a long walk on a short pier for the DR, and died ending the blight.  Events in Awakening were perpetrated by the Orlesian Warden.  But Rob, why is this your canon ending?  Because it was the most satisfying of all my playthroughs.  If you check, you'll see that I have all of the achievements for DA O.  I have played every possible scenario, and this one was the most satisfying of all of them.

 

Could I have really played all of those scenarios out if I "hated" the Warden?  It's too bad I lost my HDD in the period between Origins and now, because all of those save games would be available, and I could have some, presumably, wild variations on the theme, but in the end, my canon Warden sacrificed everything for Thedas, including her life.  That was the best playthrough of all of them.  Is it any wonder that I can let her go?  She shined out in the ultimate definition of hero.  She wrote the book on self sacrifice to save others.  That's why that's my canon ending, that's why I don't want to see BW forced to write the Warden in for some fan service.  Because the reality is, that's all it would be, fan service.  While not a bad thing, for my canon game, and let's all be realistic here, that's what the motivation is, everyone clamoring for the Warden is doing so for their own benefit, it breaks it.  They have to spend all that time and money trying to work it out so that they offend the least number of people possible, for something that I may never see, and I'm not alone in the US, or in telling Morrigan to take a long walk on a short pier for the DR, so I'm not the only one that may never see it.  In the end, the star of the show is Thedas, and that's what we've been told, time and again, since the inception of the IP.


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#396
Muspade

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So...all you "The Warden is a darkspawn killing specialist and useless in this situation" people didn't really play Awakening?

He is useless when fighting Corypheus.


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#397
AceHalberd

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In all honesty, I'd like to know what became of my mercenary from A Tale of Orzammar. WHY DO YOU NOT ANSWER THE FANS, BIOWARE?



#398
Muspade

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In all honesty, I'd like to know what became of my mercenary from A Tale of Orzammar. WHY DO YOU NOT ANSWER THE FANS, BIOWARE?

He has become the Inquisitors personal barmaiden off-screen and serves him/her delicious Orzammar ale, giving him/her foot massages every once in awhile.

Spoiler



#399
twincast

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Yeah, I'm rather convinced at this point that they're saving the Warden (or Warden-Commander) for a possible expansion. Would be the easiest way to introduce him or her without having to deal with the immediate repercussions of some choices that may have already been done in the main game, not to mention avoiding conflicts with what we've set up in the Keep.
 
I suspect that depending on the choices in the Keep, we might even have a possible expansion start us off playing as the Warden or Warden-Commander first, maybe even in different locations, with the Inquisitor coming in later.
 
- Warden romanced Morrigan and stepped through the Etuvian? Begin the expansion wherever the hell he's supposed to be.
- Warden romanced Leliana? Start with him possibly accompanying her on a Divine-related mission.
- Warden is Alistair's wife and queen of Ferelden? Start in Denerim, smacking troublesome nobles around.
- Warden didn't step through the Etuvian and didn't romance Leliana or became Queen with Alistair? Maybe start at the Circle Tower, since that spoiler image suggests he or she is there.
- Warden made the ultimate sacrifice, therefore we're playing as the Warden-Commander of Orlais instead? Could be another possible location to start in.
 
This would actually be a nice callback to how Origins started. All the potential beginning stories.

Sounds like a great idea and perfectly doable satisfyingly (likely not fitting voice aside), but no fiber of my body believes they'll ever make anything like that. If for no other reason, then because it seems like too much work for an expansion in this day and age, and the Default World State has both the Hero of Ferelden and the Architect dead, so the standard version of the Warden Commander would be rather bland. Then again, since they don't get racially defined in the Keep (so far), the WC having a free race selection in that proposed expansion while a surviving HoF does not, would somewhat balance that out. Still, no chance in hell, sadly.

#400
WildOrchid

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I think Janeka shares some, if not all, of the blame for the whole Corypheus debacle. 

 

Nah, it's all Hawke's fault.

 

 

/sarcasm