374 réponses à ce sujet

[wolfsite]

http://forum.bioware...unity-concerns/

 

For those who haven't seen it yet.

[Han Master]

Well why wasn't this issue fixed before release day, didn't this game went gold weeks before 17 Nov 2014.

[devSin]

Kind of what we were talking about back in Sept. Oh, how they did hide from us the ugly truth...

Just to note, I checked today, and LMB+RMB only moves the targeting reticle in tactical view (so you can pan the camera around).

 

There is no way to drive with the mouse, except to issue single target movement orders in tactical view (where the keyboard only controls the camera).

 

Combat is a mess. The targeting system is wonky (it can be hard to tell who's targeted, or why there's even a target lock feature), and the queue may not be all that great (in exploration view, it doesn't seem possible to queue basic attacks, so trying to get companions to switch targets doesn't work unless you can use an ability on the target you want them to focus on). Tactical view almost seems mandatory, but the camera controls are pretty rough, and the camera is dumb as a bag of rocks (it hits ceilings and falls off cliffs and stuff). (And party tactics and AI so far seems really underwhelming.)

 

Exploration is also sketchy because there's such a huge startup and slowdown to movement; since proximity matters in this game (there is no auto-movement, so you have to get close to something you want to interact with and roughly be facing it), you can end up overshooting or undershooting the object you want to use (or enemy you want to attack or person you want to talk with, etc.), which requires you to turn around for another pass (and if you're using the keyboard "swim-cam" controls, it feels like pivoting a submarine).

 

I'm really liking the game (I'm just sort of casually running through it and checking out stuff right now), but the controls are just awful.

[Brogan]

Just to note, I checked today, and LMB+RMB only moves the targeting reticle in tactical view (so you can pan the camera around).

 

There is no way to drive with the mouse, except to issue single target movement orders in tactical view (where the keyboard only controls the camera).

 

Combat is a mess. The targeting system is wonky (it can be hard to tell who's targeted, or why there's even a target lock feature), and the queue may not be all that great (in exploration view, it doesn't seem possible to queue basic attacks, so trying to get companions to switch targets doesn't work unless you can use an ability on the target you want them to focus on). Tactical view almost seems mandatory, but the camera controls are pretty rough, and the camera is dumb as a bag of rocks (it hits ceilings and falls off cliffs and stuff). (And party tactics and AI so far seems really underwhelming.)

 

Exploration is also sketchy because there's such a huge startup and slowdown to movement; since proximity matters in this game (there is no auto-movement, so you have to get close to something you want to interact with and roughly be facing it), you can end up overshooting or undershooting the object you want to use (or enemy you want to attack or person you want to talk with, etc.), which requires you to turn around for another pass (and if you're using the keyboard "swim-cam" controls, it feels like pivoting a submarine).

 

I'm really liking the game (I'm just sort of casually running through it and checking out stuff right now), but the controls are just awful.

 

Well, that just sounds like there was literally no time spent on designing a pc control scheme.  I mean, it's clearly the design of some wonky console adventure game that was already in place before they even started the pc side. There seems to be no thought to generating any kind of precision of your intended actions.

 

We went back and forth over this exact issue for days and days back in Sept/Oct.  I knew there was something like this lurking because there were no signs of the traditional controls in either the comments or the footage.

 

Apparently, Darrah has already commented on it, but from the sound of your description, I just don't see how they can make it any better without a total overhaul of the system.

[Monica21]

My working theory right now, if what I've heard about Ubisoft is correct (and game companies by extension), is that this game was certainly tested on a PC with KB/M, whoever tested it said it ran like poop, and EA didn't give Bioware time to get it right before shoving it out the door. And now look. People are returning their copies, hoping for a patch, and they'll buy it cheaper once it is patched, and EA gets less money. (Do you see how that works, EA? Not in your favor is how.)

 

I have no trouble pointing the finger at EA for this just like I had no trouble pointing the finger at EA for rushing DA2.

[Morroian]

My working theory right now, if what I've heard about Ubisoft is correct (and game companies by extension), is that this game was certainly tested on a PC with KB/M, whoever tested it said it ran like poop, and EA didn't give Bioware time to get it right before shoving it out the door. And now look. People are returning their copies, hoping for a patch, and they'll buy it cheaper once it is patched, and EA gets less money. (Do you see how that works, EA? Not in your favor is how.)

 

I have no trouble pointing the finger at EA for this just like I had no trouble pointing the finger at EA for rushing DA2.

 

I'm not cutting Bioware any slack on this because even if it was discovered at the last minute they have had plenty of dev time to develop the PC UI and controls. If they waited until the last minute to do this then more fool Bioware.

[Monica21]

I'm not cutting Bioware any slack on this because even if it was discovered at the last minute they have had plenty of dev time to develop the PC UI and controls. If they waited until the last minute to do this then more fool Bioware.

 

I'm pretty sure "they had plenty of time" is not good when trying to point the finger, especially if you've never worked in the gaming industry.

[Elite Midget]

I'm not reading those reviews in fear of spoilers.

You mean it's as bad as Skyrim? Dear Maker, why...

Well, Skyrim had mods that helped out. SkyUI is a godsend for example.

[devSin]

Apparently, Darrah has already commented on it, but from the sound of your description, I just don't see how they can make it any better without a total overhaul of the system.

I have my doubts as well, but there are some glitches (sometimes the cursor seems to not work on the button bar or in the dialogue response wheel) that they can fix and some usability improvements they can make (like binding F to Loot All and better keyboard navigation for the awful menu screens).

 

When I launched the game and found out that you have to manually target and click the "Click to Continue" button just to be able to enter the game, I knew there were going to be horrors in store for me. The interface and controls are extremely rough (this definitely feels like a last-minute project).

 

It's unbelievably sad to say, but I think the game would actually have been better if they'd decided to just treat it like a standard console port.

[Morroian]

I'm pretty sure "they had plenty of time" is not good when trying to point the finger, especially if you've never worked in the gaming industry.

 

Game has been in development for over 3.5 years that why I don't cut them any slack on issues like this which can be solved with more dev time.

[Han Master]

They made the game for the consoles and then decide to port over to the PC, instead of building it for the PC then porting over to the consoles. Problem is there are more problems doing that which is why PC mouse and keyboard controls are bad.

[Silent Fear]

No, not really. you don't need to press any buttons to pan the camera in Witcher 2, thus moving around is much easier, simply hit w and turn the camera to adjust your direction as needed. But in DAI  you must press the right mouse button, while moving the mouse, then with your other hand, you must fiddle with the WASD keys.

And the F*cking combat controls in the midst of all this.... (ugh)

You know, I've just come to a sobering realization: I simply don't have enough arms to play this game.
 

 

Dude you are fine - i just got the sobering realization that i need two more heads and maybe an extra brain so i can control all 4 characters ( Much improved AI, such brain, great sinergy WoW ) now that we have them epic controls and "streamlined" tactics ( aka tactics removed ). So casual it is so i can burn trough the story.

 

Good stuff. 

But there is light in the tunnel. The Witcher is yet to disappoint me - on the contrary its a game that keeps evolving - and its ****** close.

[Han Master]

Seriously the PC version of witcher 3 will never have the bad mouse & keyboard issues experience by DA 3 PC gamers.

[Suhiira]

I have to agree.

It's obvious the UI and tac cam were developed for consoles and "ported over" to PC.

While no doubt the console crowd in thrilled to be able to use the tac cam it makes for VERY clumsy play on the PC.

[skjutengris]

I have to agree.

It's obvious the UI and tac cam were developed for consoles and "ported over" to PC.

While no doubt the console crowd in thrilled to be able to use the tac cam it makes for VERY clumsy play on the PC.

 

not using tac cam much at all even on Hard.

definitely they could add a better PC control and precision and hopefully they patch that one day.
Overall a great experience playing for 5 hours or so.

 

the world is great finally having a world that looks fantasy and not like a carbon plastic dx9 paste textures.

PC controls a bit off.

lot to do.

Nothing that really is annoying except tac cam control.

so not using it much.

[Brogan]

My working theory right now, if what I've heard about Ubisoft is correct (and game companies by extension), is that this game was certainly tested on a PC with KB/M, whoever tested it said it ran like poop, and EA didn't give Bioware time to get it right before shoving it out the door. And now look. People are returning their copies, hoping for a patch, and they'll buy it cheaper once it is patched, and EA gets less money. (Do you see how that works, EA? Not in your favor is how.)

 

I agree with your theory, but what about the release delay in Oct?  Couldn't that be described as 'giving them time to get it right', in regards to the pc control scheme?  It could have been anything, of course, but you'd think if they needed more time, the programmers required for pc could use that to do something about it.

 

Of course, you could also wonder if the pc control scheme was purposely dumbed down, based on a mandate from the Marketing Dept purely to push customers away form the pc version, just like they did with Watch Dogs and AC4.

[Brogan]

Game has been in development for over 3.5 years that why I don't cut them any slack on issues like this which can be solved with more dev time.

 

Very good point.

[finc.loki]

What they need to do is to implement RTS style control in tac cam. First off the ability to zoom out way more and higher so you can actually see the battlefield. Second the mouse cursor should act like a drag feature. Meaning when high up in tac cam in pause you can point on the ground, hold it and "drag'' around with the mouse, that is fastest and then you just have the cursor to click on target and your team members and issue orders.

 

in Real time they should just copy and paste the controls from DA2, it was perfect for actual word exploring, looting and real time combat targeting etc. 

 

Combine these two things for PC and the game is golded. Oh, and fix the ANNOYING flickering textures in SLI/Xfire modes.

 

I already have a fix for the cut scene stutter and 30fps lock, which works flawlessly for me and cutscenes are like normal 60fps now.

 

I am almost tempted to go back and play some DA2, I only have good memories of the combat in that game, I LOVED playing archer. Only repetitive environments sucked in that game. I even enjoyed the story for the most part.

[Brogan]

Drag around with mouse, or mouse past the screen borders - same thing.  Again that is something they already had in Origins.  Took it out in DA2, but they already had the concept and it worked.  It worked great.  Put it back in!

 

Agreed on using the DA2 basic controls.  There was nothing wrong.  I just got finished with my DA2 playthrough for DAI tonight, but I am obviously not even installing until they patch it.

 

Also, could you give a link for that 60fps cutscene fix?  Thanks.

[Monica21]

I agree with your theory, but what about the release delay in Oct?  Couldn't that be described as 'giving them time to get it right', in regards to the pc control scheme?  It could have been anything, of course, but you'd think if they needed more time, the programmers required for pc could use that to do something about it.

 

Of course, you could also wonder if the pc control scheme was purposely dumbed down, based on a mandate from the Marketing Dept purely to push customers away form the pc version, just like they did with Watch Dogs and AC4.

 

EA: "Is it playable?"

Bioware: "Well, technically, but... "

EA: "Time to release it."

 

Who knows what the October delay was for, but a month's delay at the start of fiscal quarter reduces earnings. Add another month onto that you only get one month of earnings for that quarter. I don't know who did what when, but the devs are gamers too. They know what works and what only kind of works, and they have lists of things that are broken that are miles longer than anything we've listed here. The suits at EA don't care.

[dlux]

Do you recall the reason he gave?

Maybe contact them again and get a different result with a different rep? That's happened to me with other companies.

I got a refund now from Origin. I just had to chat with somebody who is competent and not a moron like the last guy I communicated with.

 

I'll pick it up again later when it is on sale and the bugs and kinks have been worked out.

[dlux]

EA: "Is it playable?"

Bioware: "Well, technically, but... "

EA: "Time to release it."

They shoved it out the door for Christmas. The game has a lot of technical problems and is simply not finished.

 

They should have released it in 2015.

[Brogan]

It's frustrating waiting for them to patch this stuff, because everyone posting has 1 specific thing they absolutely can't stand that might not even bother somebody else.

 

And likely that 1 thing will not be deemed important enough for the first patch.  So we'll have to wait till the next one... etc etc.

 

We need to have a complete list so things aren't forgotten.  Might as well start with this one over in the Feedback section.

[Shryke]

I for one will not even consider a purchase until all this nonsense is ironed out. It's as simple as that. Life is too short.

 

It's exactly like CaptainBlackGold said: the obvious lack of attention that has been given to the PC version tells me that Bioware/EA not only don't care but that they're not even willing to make a decent effort to get our money anymore. They obviously expected us to be happy with everything as it is. This either indicates a lack of regard for PC players, or an inability to ascertain what it is about the PC controls and UI that are lacking. Whether it is the former, and they just don't care, or the latter, and they are incompetent, neither bodes well for such a high-profile AAA game designer in 2014.

 

This may not be the place for this, but there is something else that also makes me sad: none of the reviews I have read — and I have read many — said anything about the sorry state of the PC version. None of them mentioned the poor controls. None of them lamented the fact that PC users, after suffering through so many terrible UIs in the last few years (Skyrim, Dragon Age 2, etc.), are still not getting a UI that is properly designed for a keyboard and mouse. Not even PC Gamer mentioned the controls. It's like the whole industry is just trying to shove us under the rug, yet are still unwilling to let go of the small sliver of sales we can provide.

 

In any event, the most egregious errors I am noting from forums and videos are the following, in order of egregiousness:

 

1. Lack of auto-attack. I do not want to constantly hit a button or hold a button-down to attack in an ostensibly tactical RPG. Some players have RSI, some players want to focus on tactics. I am a translator who types thousands of words a day. I don't want to hold anything down when I'm playing an RPG. RPGs work just fine with mouse clicks to move. Having to constantly hold down a button is very backwards design that adds nothing to gameplay for me. This is a big issue for me, and I will not play this game until there is auto attack.

 

2. No click to move. Again, clicking to move is so much more efficient than WASD'ing everywhere. Why strain muscles and fatigue yourself when you can accomplish the same thing with one click? I love me some Assassin's Creed with a gamepad, but  I've always lamented the lack of an auto walk button on controllers.

 

3. Tactical camera weirdness. Not being able to zoom out more, having to move a cursor with your mouse...? It's all just completely insane that this was overlooked.

 

I'd love to know: who greenlighted these decisions? Who said, "yeah this is good enough. We're done. PC players will be upset, but we'll patch it in later". That must've been the conversation that took place. Bioware/EA have too much experience for them to have simply overlooked the issue. The neglect was intentional. Why can companies never come out and say - "You know what? We ran out of time during development and were unable to give PC players the experience they deserve. It's going to take us a couple of weeks, but we promise to get the game working in the way our previous two games in the series have. We are sorry for the annoyances this will cause, but we hope you will stick with us as we work to provide a game our loyal PC fanbase can enjoy as much as we hope our console fanbase does". 

 

Rant over. To hell with it. Somebody wake me up when they patch this garbage.

[Brogan]

Werd.