165 réponses à ce sujet

[Travie]

Im consdering RPing as Josh Fierstine. or Rey Comfort. 

 

I don't think there are bananas in Thedas, so Ray is right out. 

[lizthetimelord]

This is a very minor spoiler (really minor, but read at your own risk) but it's relevant to the topic:
 

Spoiler

Cassandra asks the Inquisitor if they believe in the Maker, to which they can reply yes, no, or don't know. It's from this review (http://www.polygon.c...-gameplay-video), 9:45 minutes in. There are no story spoilers that I could spot, but if you don't want to hear companion conversations, don't watch.

[cronshaw]

Hay ive RPd that since i was 7.

the answer is simple look for the scientiffic reason. the deities are more interdimentional beings as apposed to gods magic is more energy / mater manipulation.

I think it was Isac Asamof who said. Science can be so advanced as to be virtualy indistinguasibe from magic.

look at Thundarr the barbarian.   

Arthur C. Clarke

as for the OP

If you were atheist that would mean you don't believe in deities

that would not mean you don't believe in demons, magic ect, 

they are just natural phenomenon in the Thedosian universe with no need for a causal deity

much the same way an atheist would argue no deity is needed to explain our universe

[LiquidLyrium]

I think it would def. make sense for a Dalish elf to not adehere to Andrastian beliefs. They have their own legends and gods, and sight unseen, hopefully the game will allow you to express beliefs in that lore.

 

I've always felt that there's a belief system in Thedas that doesn't really have a good analogue to our world. 

With both the Dalish and Andriastian doctrine, the Gods are sealed away and/or absent from Creation. And with the Fade as a metaphysical certainty, it sort of presents an interesting conundrum. 

 

Most of my Hawkes (including my canon Hawke) adhered to a belief system that doesn't really have a good term to describe it. They definitely believe that the Maker (or something) exists and created the world, but most of my characters in Thedas also believe that it is largely irrelevant to worship a deity who is completely and wholly absent.

 

It isn't the same thing as atheism or agnosticism, but it doesn't exactly have a real-world analog (of which I'm aware, in any case.) 

 

I mean, we've already seen characters who are atheist/agnostic. (Aveline, for instance shows signs of being an agnostic. "Wesly's either at the Maker's side or he isn't" and "I've heard the Chant, and it's lovely. Maybe that's all it needs to be." Or more apropos to this conversation she also expresses doubt at the ideology "the less the Maker does, the more he's proven.")

 

I mean, and I sort of got the impression that a LOT of people in Thedas think the way my Hawkes did. A lot of people seem to think that the Maker is never going to return to Thedas, no matter what humanity does. But again, I don't know if there's a really good real-world analog to "believes in an absent god, but also believes that worship is irrelevant and never going to accomplish anything."

[Incantrix]

My Dalish will be similar. 

 

He acknowledges the lore behind the creators but he chooses not put his faith into them. He believes the creators have forsaken the elven race into the state they are now, so why should he praise them? 

[Sully13]

 

Arthur C. Clark

Thanks 

[LordParbr]

well, one doesn't have to believe that what the Dalish view as gods, or what the humans call "The Maker" are divine. That would be one way to go. They could believe that they are extra-dimentional beings of immense power, but not necessarily divine.

I played my human warrior warden as an atheist.

[LordParbr]

I think it would def. make sense for a Dalish elf to not adehere to Andrastian beliefs. They have their own legends and gods, and sight unseen, hopefully the game will allow you to express beliefs in that lore.

 

I've always felt that there's a belief system in Thedas that doesn't really have a good analogue to our world. 

With both the Dalish and Andriastian doctrine, the Gods are sealed away and/or absent from Creation. And with the Fade as a metaphysical certainty, it sort of presents an interesting conundrum. 

 

Most of my Hawkes (including my canon Hawke) adhered to a belief system that doesn't really have a good term to describe it. They definitely believe that the Maker (or something) exists and created the world, but most of my characters in Thedas also believe that it is largely irrelevant to worship a deity who is completely and wholly absent.

 

It isn't the same thing as atheism or agnosticism, but it doesn't exactly have a real-world analog (of which I'm aware, in any case.) 

 

I mean, we've already seen characters who are atheist/agnostic. (Aveline, for instance shows signs of being an agnostic. "Wesly's either at the Maker's side or he isn't" and "I've heard the Chant, and it's lovely. Maybe that's all it needs to be." Or more apropos to this conversation she also expresses doubt at the ideology "the less the Maker does, the more he's proven.")

 

I mean, and I sort of got the impression that a LOT of people in Thedas think the way my Hawkes did. A lot of people seem to think that the Maker is never going to return to Thedas, no matter what humanity does. But again, I don't know if there's a really good real-world analog to "believes in an absent god, but also believes that worship is irrelevant and never going to accomplish anything."

Deist is the word you're looking for.

If they don't follow the Chantry's dogma and such, but still believe that gods exist which don't actually interfere in the loves of mortals, then they would be a deist.

However, the theology of Thedas does have a great deal of overlap with our world. Granted there are no dimensions, so far as we know, like the Fade. However, the Andrastean Chantry and Tevinter Chantry are a lot like Christianity and Judaism, with The Maker being the Judeo-Christian God(Yahweh) and Andraste as Jesus Christ, with small differences here and there. The Dalish religion is obviously based on the pagan religions Judaism stomped out, even down to how the Chantry(before it was the Chantry) stomped out the Dalish religion(led by pre-bonfire Andraste). The only real difference is that the Andrastean Chantry acknowledges that the Old Gods were actually gods, but that they aren't anymore. That's a major difference between the Thedas religions and ours, as the Judeo-Christian teachings insist that their god is the one-and-only god... Or does it?

*WARNING: If you are bored by, or sensitive to theological discourse, turn back*

Spoiler

That's actually a bit of a tricky issue to me, actually. If you read the Old Testament, God comes across downright schizophrenic sometimes. It(I use neutral pronouns for the Judeo-Christian god, because, honestly, sex/gender would have no meaning in regard to such a being) keeps referring to "us" and "we." Now, a lot of Christian/Jews like to say, in response to that, that's just God invoking the Holy Trinity (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit; which, in Judeo-Christian theology is all one being). The problem there, is the way it says things. Quite often, God, in The Old Testament, can definitely be interpretted as speaking to the existence of other gods. In fact, the very existence of a commandment saying not to worship other gods just seems redundant if there is only 1. In my interpretation, the Bible does continually make reference to there being other gods beside Yahweh, but that particular god tells its subjects, not that only 1 god exists, but that there is only 1 so far as the Jews are concerned. Just, don't worship the others. I am your god, so to speak.

Of course, I'm not alone in believing that the Bible does occasionally make reference to the existence of other gods aside from ol' Yahweh.

So, in that way, the similarities aren't even really that far off either.

Sorry, even though I'm, personally, an atheist, theology and mythology interest me.

[Vilegrim]

This is a very minor spoiler (really minor, but read at your own risk) but it's relevant to the topic:
 

Spoiler

Cassandra asks the Inquisitor if they believe in the Maker, to which they can reply yes, no, or don't know. It's from this review (http://www.polygon.c...-gameplay-video), 9:45 minutes in. There are no story spoilers that I could spot, but if you don't want to hear companion conversations, don't watch.

 

 I couldn't tell what was asked...and not believing in the maker is nive and all, but if I still have to support/ aid the chantry it doesn't matter. 

[LordParbr]

 I couldn't tell what was asked...and not believing in the maker is nive and all, but if I still have to support/ aid the chantry it doesn't matter. 

what's "nive" mean?

[Sully13]

Dude if your looking for spelling... yeahh best to avoid my posts.

hmmm what would the ferrelden FSM be?

[LordParbr]

Dude if your looking for spelling... yeahh best to avoid my posts.

hmmm what would the ferrelden FSM be?

It's not really a problem of spelling. I can just barely deal with your incorrect use of "your" there. hahaha

The problem is "nive" just doesn't mean anything. I think they meant to say "naive," in which case, that's just wrong. disbelief in The Maker isn't naive, just because the Chantry believes it's true and magic and the Fade exist.

EDIT(For clarification): The existnce of 1 example of the supernatural does not imply the existence of another form of it. For example, the existence of The Fade does not imply that Leprachauns exist in the DA universe.

[Sully13]

Dont you go useing you'r fancy grammer whith me sunshine. 

and yeah i agree disbelief whithout evenence is simply being rational.

anyway as i mentioned the fade could be alternate worlds ect whit differing laws of physics.  

[Vilegrim]

what's "nive" mean?

 

 

that I fail at typing nice.

[Vilegrim]

It's not really a problem of spelling. I can just barely deal with your incorrect use of "your" there. hahaha

The problem is "nive" just doesn't mean anything. I think they meant to say "naive," in which case, that's just wrong. disbelief in The Maker isn't naive, just because the Chantry believes it's true and magic and the Fade exist.

 

 

the exact opposite (also I have dyspraxia so words bear with me getting words wrong, and despising twitch based game play ) I didn't mean to put naive I meant to put nice, meaning expressing disbelief would be nice, but unless we can act on it it is kind of pointless, if I can't act as if I think the chantry is an exploitative lie that uses it's power to destroy human decency, and enforce the rampant xenophobia of it's followers, what is the point?   It really is that simple to me, it will be a massive strike against this game if I cannot take a stand against the villains they have spent 2 games and several novels building up.

 

On a dalish play through I would like to offer the chantry the same terms it offered the Dalish: Give up it's culture and faith and get in the alienages to be abused and raped at whim by your betters, or be eaten by the demons, that is your only option.  Enslavement or death you choose.

[LordParbr]

Dont you go useing you'r fancy grammer whith me sunshine. 

oooooh, you mock me!  hahaha

[LordParbr]

the exact opposite (also I have dyspraxia so words bear with me getting words wrong, and despising twitch based game play ) I didn't mean to put naive I meant to put nice, meaning expressing disbelief would be nice, but unless we can act on it it is kind of pointless, if I can't act as if I think the chantry is an exploitative lie that uses it's power to destroy human decency, and enforce the rampant xenophobia of it's followers, what is the point?   It really is that simple to me, it will be a massive strike against this game if I cannot take a stand against the villains they have spent 2 games and several novels building up.

I see. In that case, I can agree to an extent. As I said, I made my human warrior warden from the first game an atheist. He poisoned the Urn as well, partly in protest of the harm the Chantry has done in Andraste's name. (Exalted marches and all that.)

[Sully13]

oooooh, you mock me!  hahaha

not realy im just dyslexic. lol

 

dosnt that make him more an Antitheist as opposed to Atheist? 

as a n Athiest irl idont go arround punching Nuns and vandeliseing relics.. in fact i help a few of the Little sisters of the poor. while i dont hold any beliefs im still nice. 

[AceHalberd]

I could never play an Athiest in the DA setting; doubting Agnostic, yes, but not Athiest, as in DA:O it's very bluntly implied that the Maker is a real entity, and you see far too much to doubt he exists in some form. The real question is whether that form is truely of a god, or just some powerful spiritual/demonic entity.

[Corto81]

 

 

So what does your Dalish think about spirits, the Fade and magic in particular (the things that are obviously real in Thedas).

 

That they're magic, not something made from a supreme designer...?

 

If anything, believing in a one god who created everything would be even dumber in Thedas than on Earth.

[LordParbr]

not realy im just dyslexic. lol

 

dosnt that make him more an Antitheist as opposed to Atheist? 

as a n Athiest irl idont go arround punching Nuns and vandeliseing relics.. in fact i help a few of the Little sisters of the poor. while i dont hold any beliefs im still nice. 

Then your bio-chemistry mocks me...

The 2 terms aren't mutually exclusive. One could be both an atheist and an anti-theist.
 

 

I could never play an Athiest in the DA setting; doubting Agnostic, yes, but not Athiest, as in DA:O it's very bluntly implied that the Maker is a real entity, and you see far too much to doubt he exists in some form. The real question is whether that form is truely of a god, or just some powerful spiritual/demonic entity.

Not really. It could never truly be said in the DA universe that the Maker effected anything. Until that happens, then you can disbelive all you want, and it's just as valid to assume that, because magic exists, and because the Fade exists, a god must exist...

[Vilegrim]

I could never play an Athiest in the DA setting; doubting Agnostic, yes, but not Athiest, as in DA:O it's very bluntly implied that the Maker is a real entity, and you see far too much to doubt he exists in some form. The real question is whether that form is truely of a god, or just some powerful spiritual/demonic entity.

 

Or a believer in other gods who regards events which the Chantry assigns to the maker to the work of other gods.

[AceHalberd]

Then your bio-chemistry mocks me...

The 2 terms aren't mutually exclusive. One could be both an atheist and an anti-theist.
 

 

Not really. It could never truly be said in the DA universe that the Maker effected anything. Until that happens, then you can disbelive all you want, and it's just as valid to assume that, because magic exists, and because the Fade exists, a god must exist...

I'm primarily going off the Temple of the Sacred Ashes bit in DA:O, and the fact Andraste's ashes were able to heal Arl Eamon. It is entirely possible that Andraste merely believed in the Maker and used it as a rallying call for her war, and it's also possible that Andraste was indeed a mage or magically imbued by that 'pure lyrium' Ogrhen comments on if you take him to the chamber. But we do know the Black City definately exists, as seen in the Fade and noted by Corypheus. It's all conjecture, really, but I see no reason why, given the evidence as we currently understand it, to doubt the Maker exists in some format over it not existing at all.