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[renfrees]

Based on the conversation with Solas, he theorizes that without the veil there might not be any demons, only spirits who live in a sort of symbiotic relationship with people and the world. It isn't said outright that there wouldn't be any possession, but I suspect that if everyone has magic then it'll force people to be a whole lot more positive about it, rather than literally demonizing everything to do with it. Remember, he says that demons are just spirits that reflect the fears of people from across the veil. Perhaps if the veil wasn't there, then they wouldn't be affected like that.

So you're saying that without the Veil there won't be desire, pride, rage and fear emotions in humans to twist spirits into demons? That's a very... idealistic way of view on a human nature, and I'd say way more dangerous than Anders'.

[jellobell]

So you're saying that without the Veil there won't be desire, pride, rage and fear emotions in humans to twist spirits into demons? That's a very... idealistic way of view on a human nature, and I'd say way more dangerous than Anders'.

I don't think that's how spirits/demons work. Just possessing those emotions doesn't do anything. It's the perception of demons as evil that warps their natures. So if humanity at large believes that there is something called a "Pride Demon", then that transforms a spirit of wisdom to fit that perception. Solas went into the Fade with no preconceptions, and therefore saw what was truly there. Or at least, that's what he says.

 

It's like religion. There is great power in collective belief. If enough people believe something to be true, then that belief can take on a reality of its own.

 

(I'm an anthropology major so I am loving this so much. It's so in line with what I'm studying right now.)

[Tamyn]

If all the spirits turned into something like Cole instead of possessing people and being corrupted by them, I'd be more okay with them living alongside people.

[scintilla]

If there was only one "world" (for lack of a better term) would possession be less common? They wouldn't need to possess people to experience the world beyond the Fade since it wouldn't exist.

[The Elder King]

If there was only one "world" (for lack of a better term) would possession be less common? They wouldn't need to possess people to experience the world beyond the Fade since it wouldn't exist.

Unless demons change their nature, no. Demons that came in Thedas because of small rifts still wanted to possess people, because they wanted to see the world wit the eyes of a mortal.

[Ceoldoren]

Started downloading the early access 30 minutes ago. Still on 1 percent, this is gonna take awhile 

[scintilla]

Unless demons change their nature, no. Demons that came in Thedas because of small rifts still wanted to possess people, because they wanted to see the world wit the eyes of a mortal.

 

They wanted to see the mortal world through the eyes of the mortal. Likely because they couldn't move around unnoticed as demons, if they were powerful enough to make it through the Veil on their own at all.

 

If it was all the same world, mortal or spirit/demon, would that even be "necessary"?

[renfrees]

I don't think that's how spirits/demons work. Just possessing those emotions doesn't do anything. It's the perception of demons as evil that warps their natures. So if humanity at large believes that there is something called a "Pride Demon", then that transforms a spirit of wisdom to fit that perception. Solas went into the Fade with no preconceptions, and therefore saw what was truly there. Or at least, that's what he says.

 

It's like religion. There is great power in collective belief. If enough people believe something to be true, then that belief can take on a reality of its own.

 

(I'm an anthropology major so I am loving this so much. It's so in line with what I'm studying right now.)

Arguably, Justice became a spirit (or demon) of Vengeance through Anders' emotions and regardless of his beliefs in its benevolence.

 

And spirits/demons don't cross the real world just to live there, they seek to experience emotions, thus the possession will exist even without the Veil. And well, given the basic human nature...

[The Elder King]

They wanted to see the mortal world through the eyes of the mortal. Likely because they couldn't move around unnoticed as demons, if they were powerful enough to make it through the Veil on their own at all.
 
If it was all the same world, mortal or spirit/demon, would that even be "necessary"?

Other then they'd still have the problem of being unnoticed, but no, from What I know they Want to see the world through mortals, Not just for convenience.

[jellobell]

But there's that collective belief again. Is the fact that demons wish to see the world through the eyes of mortals an intrinsic trait or one we simply believe is characteristic of a demon? I mean, "demons possess people because jealousy etc etc" is part of chantry lore. Everyone knows that this is true. It's crazy to even question it.

 

But spirits are personifications of ideas. If you believe it to be true, then it will be true. What if nobody believed that demons possessed people? What if people didn't even believe in demons? Anders certainly believed in demons and possession and that abominations were evil. But isn't wynne a sort of abomination? Her body was inhabited by a spirit for years with no bad effects. Spirit healers call upon spirits for aid. Is that possession?

 

It's completely crazy when you first think about it, but Solas is basically challenging the ontological underpinnings of the dragon age universe. Y'all are still thinking inside the box.

[scintilla]

Other then they'd still have the problem of being unnoticed, but no, from What I know they Want to see the world through mortals, Not just for convenience.

 

Fair enough. It's sort of interesting to think about what might change if a merge were to happen but maybe this thread isn't a good place for it.

[Miss This or That]

I think Solas' ideals are noble, but a lot of them could backfire really quickly. If he is even telling the truth about the spirits in the first place. It would make sense to convince our Quissis that the 'demons' are just friendly little spirits if the rumours about him originally being the one that should have possessed our powers to begin with are true.

Think about it: If a stranger suddenly owns the power that is 'rightfully yours', wouldn't you try to make sure that they agree to your ideals? His creeper looks are definitely suspicious even though we know that he is the traitor. If the Inquisitor agrees that a world full of spirits is great, then maybe -depending on how evil he really is- he could use the Inquisitor's opinion to get what he wanted in the first place...IF he is really still a traitor and not someone that wants to redeem himself.

[scintilla]

I think he is telling the truth - the truth as he sees it. Whether he's right or not is certainly up for debate.

 

I could see that. It would make more sense if he kind of pushed his ideals regardless of whether the Inquisitor asked though. Although this may be a division of story and gameplay thing.

 

The question becomes: what did he want in the first place?

[Miss This or That]

That is certainly the big question here. I don't see him as someone that would lie about the spirits, but I'd rather think the worst. Takes away some of the heartache that his romance arc will certainly cause. (I'm actually playing an elf at first just because of him.)

Mhm, he always approves if you ask about things he deems interesting, that made me suspicious in the first place. It's only natural to approve of the questions someone asks if you have a certain plan to fulfill/ulterior motives.

To be honest, right know I just think he acts TOO friendly. Gotta stay suspicious of the cute bald elves...

[Tamyn]

That romance guide said Solas is definitely set in his ways, so he's never going to change his mind on his ideas. Gone are the days of malleable love interests I guess.

 

http://www.gameinfor...PostPageIndex=2

[jellobell]

I think it makes sense from a character standpoint for our inquisitors to be a bit skeptical about his ideas (in fact that's initially how I'm going to be playing mine) because they don't have the experience with the Fade that Solas does. But me personally? I am 100% on-board. All of the stuff I've seen in the previous two dragon age games and the expanded materials points to him being completely, crazily right.

[Bigdoser]

I am going to have to agree somewhat with solas when it comes to spirits we have clearly seen that spirits CAN change. We have seen it with justice, we are going to see it first hand with Cole going by his party card and Asunder. Heck some spirits outright act out of the norm. 

 

Like wynne since spirits commonly the "good" ones don't give a crap about our world and yet that one took interest and watched over wynne and even protected her when she was in danger. 

 

Plus if Solas did encounter spirits of wisdom and purpose and notes that they can EASILY be perverted into desire and pride hence why barely anyone has seen them and adding collective belief can also effect the fade somewhat. Now that I think about it if we follow Solas ideas its not surprising that we are seeing spirits of despair and envy considering the situation in inquistion. 

 

Lets not forget bioware said the "strongest" demon is Despair and Pride is the only "recorded" demon that appears to be the strongest. I have to say we truly don't know all that much about the fade I can't wait to discuss this with Solas more. 

 

As jellobell said me as a player everything I have seen and read in dragon age kinda points in the direction that he is right on a level. Now my Male Qunari mage is going to be a little sceptical at first but open to the ideas since they are fascinating I can imagine both them turning into study partners. XD

[The Elder King]

But there's that collective belief again. Is the fact that demons wish to see the world through the eyes of mortals an intrinsic trait or one we simply believe is characteristic of a demon? I mean, "demons possess people because jealousy etc etc" is part of chantry lore. Everyone knows that this is true. It's crazy to even question it.
 
But spirits are personifications of ideas. If you believe it to be true, then it will be true. What if nobody believed that demons possessed people? What if people didn't even believe in demons? Anders certainly believed in demons and possession and that abominations were evil. But isn't wynne a sort of abomination? Her body was inhabited by a spirit for years with no bad effects. Spirit healers call upon spirits for aid. Is that possession?
 
It's completely crazy when you first think about it, but Solas is basically challenging the ontological underpinnings of the dragon age universe. Y'all are still thinking inside the box.

Consider that the Chantry isn't the only Org who believes This. The dalish go ever further, believig all spirits are actually dangerous.
Also, Wynne believed the same Thing as Anders. The difference between them is that she didn't have that big negative emotions that lead justice to be corrupted.
Spirit Healers aren't possessed.
I do find What he said an interesting perspective, but at the same time I find your last phrase a bit rude .

[jellobell]

That romance guide said Solas is definitely set in his ways, so he's never going to change his mind on his ideas. Gone are the days of malleable love interests I guess.

 

http://www.gameinfor...PostPageIndex=2

Good. One of the things I find most attractive about him is his passion. He believes in something. He's basically the only person in the world that believes in his ideas, and it makes him a bit grumpy sometimes, but he doesn't think any less of the inquisitor if they're skeptical so long as they ask questions and are willing to listen. Really, all he wants is for someone to listen to him with an open mind.

 

Jeez, the more I learn about him the more I love him.

[RynJ]

That is certainly the big question here. I don't see him as someone that would lie about the spirits, but I'd rather think the worst. Takes away some of the heartache that his romance arc will certainly cause. (I'm actually playing an elf at first just because of him.)

Mhm, he always approves if you ask about things he deems interesting, that made me suspicious in the first place. It's only natural to approve of the questions someone asks if you have a certain plan to fulfill/ulterior motives.

To be honest, right know I just think he acts TOO friendly. Gotta stay suspicious of the cute bald elves...

 

I think he just likes talking about his studies. Josephine mentions him having interesting stories which suggests that he likes telling what he's seen and experienced to everyone that is willing to listen! 

[scintilla]

That is certainly the big question here. I don't see him as someone that would lie about the spirits, but I'd rather think the worst. Takes away some of the heartache that his romance arc will certainly cause. (I'm actually playing an elf at first just because of him.)

Mhm, he always approves if you ask about things he deems interesting, that made me suspicious in the first place. It's only natural to approve of the questions someone asks if you have a certain plan to fulfill/ulterior motives.

To be honest, right know I just think he acts TOO friendly. Gotta stay suspicious of the cute bald elves...

 

I like to go in expecting the worst too. Honestly, I'm probably going to ignore the traitor thing until I can't anymore while playing. Then I'll expect the worst. Yeah, I'm playing an elf first for him too (although I have gotten really attached to the character concept).

 

Yeah. That could be really suspicious. Or it could be a nerd gushing to someone willing to listen to him nerd out about the things he's passionate about. He probably doesn't talk to many people who care about his ideas and even fewer who would keep an open mind about them.

[The Elder King]

I think it makes sense from a character standpoint for our inquisitors to be a bit skeptical about his ideas (in fact that's initially how I'm going to be playing mine) because they don't have the experience with the Fade that Solas does. But me personally? I am 100% on-board. All of the stuff I've seen in the previous two dragon age games and the expanded materials points to him being completely, crazily right.

I actually feel a bit the opposite. I think There are more chances that he's wrong then right.

[jellobell]

I do find What he said an interesting perspective, but at the same time I find your last phrase a bit rude .

Whoops, sorry about that. Tone is hard to convey over the internet. My bad.   It was meant in more of a joking way. I'm just kind of excited because I'm such a lore nerd and this all makes so much sense and it's really expanding my perception of Dragon Age as a whole.

[RynJ]

When it comes down to it, we don't know enough to say whether he's right or wrong. We've been entrenched in the Chantry and Dalish etc ideas of the veil and what's beyond it and both involve treating it with caution. Solas is the first voice that kind of opposes those ideas and suggests that a world with the veil gone could be viable and successful. Solas could be right as he's spent more time deeper in the Fade then anyone, but he's one person and a suspicious one at that. Plus his pride and certainty in his own knowledge doesn't necessarily mean what he says is correct. I think that'll end up being a major flaw of his, that pride.

 

And the Circle mages and Dalish never dove as deep into the Fade and studies as far as we know, so they don't really know the truth either. They just say what they assume is correct.

 

Basically, I don't know what to think. I'm going to err on the side of caution and did when talking to Solas, even if that netted me disapproval. I told him I find his ideas fascinating but expressed doubt and will continue to even if he doesn't like it. That pride of his, man.

[The Elder King]

Whoops, sorry about that. Tone is hard to convey over the internet. My bad.   It was meant in more of a joking way. I'm just kind of excited because I'm such a lore nerd and this all makes so much sense and it's really expanding my perception of Dragon Age as a whole.

Understood .
I'm curious to see more of This theory, even though at the moment I'm Not fully convinced of if.