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[naughty99]

In the twitch stream with Freddie Prinze Jr earlier today, Cameron Lee mentioned something to the effect that the main quest encounters are scaled to your level.

Spoiler

Archived twitch stream here, where you can see the comment by Cameron Lee (skip to 35 minute mark): http://www.twitch.tv...oco/b/588066011

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Q: If you do a lot of sidequests before continuing the main quest, will you level up unevenly or will the main quest still be appropriately challenging?

A: We scaled the main quest around the right sort of level for your character, within reason, so there will be parts where you will want to be a little higher level. The rest of the world with these massive exploration areas, those we don't always scale, so you can come in here at level 4, fight a dragon and get your butt kicked. But that's one of the things you want!
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So if we spend a lot more time than the average player just exploring different areas, sidetracked with random encounters, optional quests, caves, dungeons, etc., when we finally go back to do part of the main quest, will the enemies still be scaled to provide a good challenge, even if we end up with much higher level character or better equipment than most players would be at this stage?

Or is some sort of limit to how much the main quest scales?

Just trying to get a better idea how this works from the perspective of playing open world sandbox games where I might just go off wandering and not even start the main quest until I'm 100 hours into a playthrough, for example.

In DA2 the encounters were so meticulously planned for linear progression that if you fight every possible enemy and loot everything in the world you can only earn a certain amount of gold and a certain amount of XP during Act 1, so when you enter the Deep Roads and complete Act 2, etc, there is some kind of intended balance for players of certain level, with certain equipment.

In an open world game like Skyrim, you can go off and do whatever you want - as a result, you might end up becoming so powerful by that the time you start the main quest that it becomes too easy, but you never run out of fun stuff to do that is challenging, especially at high difficulty setting, with difficulty mods.

If I understand correctly Inquisition takes an approach similar to MMOs to make the open world areas a little more linear, where you no longer receive XP or gold if you are more than a few levels above the enemy in the zone you are in, but in some areas there will be enemies of varying levels, and whenever you go back to do the main quest, the enemies are scaled a bit to match your level.

I suppose the question is how far can these enemies scale?

[Neuromancer]

I hope they scale big time for main quests.

:/

[Gothfather]

Are you sure he said they were scaled? I recall a twitch feed on bioware's channel specifically stating encounters were NOT scaled.

[Shadelon]

Are you sure he said they were scaled? I recall a twitch feed on bioware's channel specifically stating encounters were NOT scaled.

I remember this as well.

[naughty99]

Are you sure he said they were scaled? I recall a twitch feed on bioware's channel specifically stating encounters were NOT scaled.

Unless I misunderstood, Cameron indicated specifically that the main quest is scaled to the Inquisitor's level to some degree, in contrast to enemies in other areas which do not scale.

[Shadelon]

Unless I misunderstood, Cameron indicated specifically that the main quest is scaled to the Inquisitor's level to some degree, in contrast to enemies in other areas which do not scale.

I think you probably misunderstood, because I remember them specifically saying and reiterating over and over there is no enemy scaling at all.

[Gothfather]

Unless I misunderstood, Cameron indicated specifically that the main quest is scaled to the Inquisitor's level to some degree, in contrast to enemies in other areas which do not scale.

 

I haven't played so I am not claiming any definitive knowledge. So I don't know either way,

[AlanC9]

In an open world game like Skyrim, you can go off and do whatever you want - as a result, you might end up becoming so powerful by that the time you start the main quest that it becomes too easy, but you never run out of fun stuff to do that is challenging, especially at high difficulty setting, with difficulty mods.

If the Skyrim main quest becomes too easy, hasn't the whole game become too easy? My understanding is that enemies there scale the same way everybody else does.

[naughty99]

Are you sure he said they were scaled? I recall a twitch feed on bioware's channel specifically stating encounters were NOT scaled.

I think you probably misunderstood, because I remember them specifically saying and reiterating over and over there is no enemy scaling at all.

 

Until I saw this stream, I also was under this impression, but it didn't seem to make sense taking into account the open world exploration aspect of the game. If there was no scaling at all for the main quest, you would have to do it in a very deliberate, specific order, or it could end up being way too easy for someone who goes off and does their own thing exploring the environment before continuing the MQ.

 

I found the Archived twitch stream here, where you can see the comment by Cameron Lee (skip to 35 minute mark): http://www.twitch.tv...oco/b/588066011

 

================

Q: If you do a lot of sidequests before continuing the main quest, will you level up unevenly or will the main quest still be appropriately challenging?

A: We scaled the main quest around the right sort of level for your character. Within reason, so there will be parts where you will want to be a little higher level. The rest of the world with these massive exploration areas, those we don't always scale, so you can come in here at level 4, fight a dragon and get your butt kicked. But that's one of the things you want!
================

 

This was rather reassuring that there will still be some challenge even if you blow off the main quest for a long time; however, I'd be interested to know how far the enemies will scale.

 

For example, is it going to scale to the extent where it will still be balanced if you build your honor points, unlock all these open world areas and just do your own thing fighting the emergent encounters for 200 hours and then go back to the main quest?

[SilentCid]

I thought Mike Laidlaw mentioned that enemy does not scale during the prologue twitch stream.

[Shadelon]

Q: If you do a lot of sidequests before continuing the main quest, will you level up unevenly or will the main quest still be appropriately challenging?
A: We scaled the main quest around the right sort of level for your character, within reason, so there will be parts where you will want to be a little higher level. The rest of the world with these massive exploration areas, those we don't always scale, so you can come in here at level 4, fight a dragon and get your butt kicked. But that's one of the things you want!
Archived twitch stream is here (skip to 35 minute mark): http://www.twitch.tv...oco/b/588066011

It's tough to know exactly what he meant by that. He could either mean it will scale to a point, or that it will simply be a higher level than other content. So we will have to wait and see.

[naughty99]

It's tough to know exactly what he meant by that. He could either mean it will scale to a point, or that it will simply be a higher level than other content. So we will have to wait and see.

 

It seems clear he's saying that at least to some extent, the main quest is scaled to fit the level of your character. This part is obvious, otherwise if you can really explore these massive areas you would have some people become too powerful for the main quest compared to other people who are not going to explore as much.

 

The parts of the main quest where "you will want to be a little higher level," I imagine this is what he means by it scales only to an extent within reason, so if you are too low level, it's not going to scale down to beginner level. 

 

The question is how much will these enemies scale up for higher level players who have delayed the main quest.

[Sylvius the Mad]

I don't want any scaling at all.

[Shadelon]

He said rather clearly the main quest is scaled to some extent to fit the level of your character. That's obvious, otherwise if you can really explore these massive areas you would have some people become too powerful for the main quest compared to other people who are not going to explore as much.
 
The only question is how much will these enemies scale.

I still say it's debatable what he meant. Scaling can have two different definitions in this case.

[Anzer]

He said rather clearly the main quest is scaled to some extent to fit the level of your character. That's obvious, otherwise if you can really explore these massive areas you would have some people become too powerful for the main quest compared to other people who are not going to explore as much.

 

The only question is how much will these enemies scale.

In one of the video reviews (I can't recall which one, I've watched over a dozen already...) the reviewer mentioned that after getting sidetracked and leveling to 11 through side content, he went back to the story missions which were listed as recommended for level 4-7 and smashed his way through. So if there is scaling, it most likely will be within a set level range (ex: 4-7).

[naughty99]

I don't want any scaling at all.

 
So you would have either
 
A. main quest becomes too easy for people who explore the world;
B. main quest is incredibly difficult, but good balance for people who explore the world; or
C. exploring the world does not progress your character?

[Shadelon]

In one of the video reviews (I can't recall which one, I've watched over a dozen already...) the reviewer mentioned that after getting sidetracked and leveling to 11 through side content, he went back to the story missions which were listed as recommended for level 4-7 and smashed his way through. So if there is scaling, it most likely will be within a set level range (ex: 4-7).

That's a third kind of scaling, scaling only within a set range. I see this in a lot of mmos for instance.

[naughty99]

 

I still say it's debatable what he meant. Scaling can have two different definitions in this case.

 

What do you mean? 

[Shadelon]

What do you mean?

A. Manual scaling, where at development they scale the encounters based on what they think it should but it doesn't scale to you persey.

B. Auto scaling where it always scales to you.

C. Then there's scaling within a set range, like what we apparently see here. Seen in a lot of mmos and other games. You can still out level it though.

There's different kinds see.

[naughty99]

That's a third kind of scaling, scaling only within a set range. I see this in a lot of mmos for instance.

This is the standard level scaling for Bethesda's open world RPGs, Skyrim and Fallout 3.

If you are level 5 when you enter a dungeon that is encounter level 20-30, this will lock that dungeon to the lowest encounter level 20. At that level there will be some enemies above and below 20, but it is designed to be balanced for player level 20. If you enter the same dungeon at level 25, it will set to encounter level 25. If you enter it at level 50, it can only go up to the highest out of the range, encounter level 30.

Some dungeons are level 5-10, others may be scaled for 20-25, some dungeons could be level 20-unlimited, so even if you enter the dungeon at level 80, it will scale up.

What I'd like to know is how far the main quest scales, for example if you end up really high level does it disincentivize you to explore the world because the MQ ends up being too easy.

[Shadelon]

This is the standard level scaling for Bethesda's open world RPGs, Skyrim and Fallout 3.
 
If you are level 5 when you enter a dungeon that is encounter level 20-30, this will lock that dungeon to the lowest encounter level 20. At that level there will be some enemies above and below 20, but it is designed to be balanced for player level 20. If you enter the same dungeon at level 25, it will set to encounter level 25. If you enter it at level 50, it can only go up to the highest out of the range, encounter level 30.
 
Some dungeons are level 5-10, others may be scaled for 20-25, some dungeons might be level 20-unlimited.
 
What I'd like to know is how far the main quest scales, for example if you end up really high level does it disincentivize you to explore the world because the MQ ends up being too easy.

I know how it works. I own skyrim, oblivion, and morrowind. I'm a big tes fan. The person above gave an example of 4-7. So. . . Something like that I suppose.

[naughty99]

A. Manual scaling, where at development they scale the encounters based on what they think it should but it doesn't scale to you persey.

B. Auto scaling where it always scales to you.

C. Then there's scaling within a set range, like what we apparently see here. Seen in a lot of mmos and other games. You can still out level it though.

There's different kinds see.

 
Yes, there are different types of scaling. 
 
In your comment above, however, you first indicated there might be a different interpretation of Cameron's comment, perhaps there would be no scaling at all, or he was talking about something else entirely.
 
At this point, you would agree it seems clear there is at least some form of scaling for the main quest, no?

[Shadelon]

Yes, there are different types of scaling. 
 
In your comment above, however, you first indicated you did not interpret Cameron's comment to suggest there it was still not clear there would be any scaling at all, that it was still debatable whether he was talking about something else entirely.
 
At this point, you would agree it's clear there is some form of scaling for the main quest, right?

I'd call it a LIMITED form. Very limited. Couldn't tell you how many times I out leveled a dungeon in skyrim.

[Shadelon]

Should note however it's the kind I prefer. I absolutely despise it when it scales exactly to you.

[naughty99]

Should note however it's the kind I prefer. I absolutely despise it when it scales exactly to you.

 
I hear ya, the overcompensating scaling in vanilla Oblivion was somewhat silly as ended up incentivizing some players to level more slowly.
 
Inquisition seems to be a sort of hybrid of an open world sandbox game with the linear narrative main quest progression of the previous DA games, so either this important main quest line has got to accommodate through some form of scaling, or there would not seem to be a way to balance the combat encounters for people who explore a lot vs those who don't.
  
In DA2 and DAO the devs knew almost exactly how powerful you would be at key parts of the game because the progression was so tightly controlled, there were limited areas where you could explore and only a very small amount of random encounters.

Opening up the world environment introduces so much more variety in where the player is when they reach certain stages of the main quest.
 

If the Skyrim main quest becomes too easy, hasn't the whole game become too easy? My understanding is that enemies there scale the same way everybody else does.

In Skyrim the main quest is a much smaller part of the overall sandbox experience; dungeons and random encounters can scale up to provide quite challenging combat even at higher levels, particularly if you use difficulty mods like ASIS and deadly dragons, etc.

Out of dozens of playthroughs, I think I only completed the main quest once, at around level 20-25 and it seemed too easy on Master difficulty. It was shortly after the launch, so I was not using any mods, and there was no Legendary difficulty setting at the time. After finishing the main quest with that character it seemed anti-climactic to continue so I simply retired him and rolled a brand new character.

The design of the game encourages multiple playthroughs, so I've often simply retired a character at say level 30 or so to try something entirely different. Hoping Inquisition will be have a similarly high replay value, particularly if you don't do every single quest line with every character, and now that there are more race options, etc.