112 réponses à ce sujet

[Vilegrim]

that looks absolutely shockingly bad, but then Bioware appear to hate options now.  No depth or customisability at all, no if/then, no TACTICs in short...way to kick us in the teeth again, can't customise stats (badwrongfun) can't customise tactics (badwrongfun) can't heal (badwrongfun) can't have DW warriors (badwrongfun) can't have sword rogues (badworngfun) what actually are we allowed to do in your game?

[LordParbr]

that looks absolutely shockingly bad, but then Bioware appear to hate options now.  No depth or customisability at all, no if/then, no TACTICs in short...way to kick us in the teeth again, can't customise stats (badwrongfun) can't customise tactics (badwrongfun) can't heal (badwrongfun) can't have DW warriors (badwrongfun) can't have sword rogues (badworngfun) what actually are we allowed to do in your game?

In order of bolded phrases:

hahaha, do go on

Darn, it's like an actual RPG now...

yes you can. The thing you actually can't do anymore is write the goddamn AI code for BioWare now, which, in the end, was what the tactics system was in the first 2 games.

Again, yes you can. You just can't rely on heal spam to get through difficult fights anymore.

I'll concede rthese next 2 points. Removing DW from the warriors was stupid, but it was likely decided in order to make the game easier to balance. I got over that a game ago.

Everything that actually matters. These are all tiny nitpicks, 2 of which just aren't true. I'm sure with the "can't heal" comment, you're talking about healing spells. Well, there is a dedicated healing spell. It's in the Knight Enchanter tree.

What the f*** does "badwrongfun" mean? Even if I knew what it meant, I'm sure it doesn't make sense to post it after every point.

[Silent Fear]

No it isn't. It's a bad thing when they game effectively plays itself

 

As opposed to playing the game whit the new "improved" AI that play's instead of you .....

I love it when easy mode players come and say something like this "oh be a man play the game like its ment to". Sorry didnt know that the moment i select nightmare i sign in for the "Be a mom to 3 infants" course. Couse thats what you get whitout the old tactics.

 

And you know what ? If i spend half an hour every time i unlock new ability or a perk to tweek my current tactics for best sinergy betwen my characters i deserve at least some auto pilot - its called tactical planing. Whats even more important it means the AI will react close to how i would handle a battle whit all the pro's and con's coming of that. And even then each fight still needs manual input - it just limits it to few pauses instead of each move having to be done by you for each character. It will get annoying real fast. 

 

But meh no point preaching - its too late for that.

[Eledran]

It has everything I need and not much more, so I like it.

 

There is nothing worse than automation that goes too far imo, so I'm gonna be real happy just setting a few basic rules and doing the rest myself.

[LordParbr]

As opposed to playing the game whit the new "improved" AI that play's instead of you .....

I love it when easy mode players come and say something like this "oh be a man play the game like its ment to". Sorry didnt know that the moment i select nightmare i sign in for the "Be a mom to 3 infants" course. Couse thats what you get whitout the old tactics.

 

And you know what ? If i spend half an hour every time i unlock new ability or a perk to tweek my current tactics for best sinergy betwen my characters i deserve at least some auto pilot - its called tactical planing. Whats even more important it means the AI will react close to how i would handle a battle whit all the pro's and con's coming of that. And even then each fight still needs manual input - it just limits it to few pauses instead of each move having to be done by you for each character. It will get annoying real fast. 

 

But meh no point preaching - its too late for that.

You do realize that Nightmare is supposed to be THE hardest difficulty, right? So, you're essentially complainging that your new 12-gear mountain bike doesn't have training wheels on it...

[Zatche]

Thanks for the vid, OP.

No it isn't. It's a bad thing when they game effectively plays itself

I'll make do with this, but I prefer the old system. The old system had the characters performing specific abilities based on my input as to exactly when. If it's my input, the game is not playing itself. Choosing to automate is not declining to play.

[Silent Fear]

You do realize that Nightmare is supposed to be THE hardest difficulty, right? So, you're essentially complainging that your new 12-gear mountain bike doesn't have training wheels on it...

 

Yes - hardest as in hard fights vs smart AI outnumbering you and outgining you. Not hardest as in fighting your own AI to not kill itself. 

Nightmare in DA:O rewarded exploration, item composition, class and ability's sinergy and planing ahead. 

Nightmare dificulty here will be nothing more then a chore. You will have to disable everything an AI do and do it manualy each steap, each skill, each hit. Sorry did i miss the memo where the dev's explained how the combat on higher dificulty is now a "Kindergarden simulator" ?

 

Dont get me wrong i dont advocate agenst your wish to play on easy mode whit Xbox controler in hand. I advocate against taking options away from the players that want a chalange not a freaking chore.

[xkg]

You do realize that Nightmare is supposed to be THE hardest difficulty, right? So, you're essentially complainging that your new 12-gear mountain bike doesn't have training wheels on it...

 

More like his mountain bike having some kind of auto shifter instead of manual one, and doing some strange shifts during the uphill drive. You realise that manual gearbox is always better than the automatic one? Same goes for tactics.

[Eledran]

More like his mountain bike having some kind of auto shifter instead of manual one, and doing some strange shifts during the uphill drive. You realise that manual gearbox is always better than the automatic one? Same goes for tactics.

 

Yeah, that's why you only set basic tactics and then micromanage everything by hand if you play on nightmare.

 

Like I've been doing for the past games as well. You can't turn on Nightmare and expect to set up an AI so that it can automatically do everything for you.

 

In that regard I hated the DAO system, as I had to fiddle around with it for ages to actually get everything turned OFF.

[xkg]

Yeah, that's why you only set basic tactics and then micromanage everything by hand if you play on nightmare.

 

Like I've been doing for the past games as well. You can't turn on Nightmare and expect to set up an AI so that it can automatically do everything for you.

 

In that regard I hated the DAO system, as I had to fiddle around with it for ages to actually get everything turned OFF.

 

Nice try, but no. Micromanaging like that would be like you moving your bike chain to another cog by your hands. You don't do that. You do it through the shifter and gear box. Manual one is better than automatic.

[Amirit]

You've been asking me for this for a while...

 

Here's an extensive look at the 'Tactics' options in Dragon Age Inquisition...

 

...

Again...any other videos you NEED before next Tuesday? 

 

Thanks for the video! 

 

So, every time you get a new ability you can assign a tactic to it? Right? And next time you place that ability on the hotbar selected tactic will be there, you should not re-assign it again? 

[Eledran]

Nice try, but no. Micromanaging like that would be like you moving your bike chain to another cog by your hands. You don't do that. You do it through the shifter and gear box. Manual one is better than automatic.

 

Right.

 

I wasn't talking about bikes or any other silly comparison, that's the other poster. If your dudes in the game do stuff you don't want them to do because of some tactic, such as running off to places where you don't want them to run off to, I expect that to be lethal on nightmare. As it was in the previous two games.

 

Hence why, like in those two games, I'll turn the tactics down to the bare minimum, only keeping the things that are useful across the board. Because no matter how detailed you can go in manually telling the system how to automate your companions, you can't ever account for every situation, unless you've already played through the entire game.

 

So at least this system gives me a streamlined way to make it ONLY do the things I want it to do, and it allows me to input that quickly.

 

I get that people who liked to fiddle around with tactics for ages are disappointed, however. But there are other, and imho opinion better, ways to play the game.

[LordParbr]

Yes - hardest as in hard fights vs smart AI outnumbering you and outgining you. Not hardest as in fighting your own AI to not kill itself. 

Nightmare in DA:O rewarded exploration, item composition, class and ability's sinergy and planing ahead. 

Nightmare dificulty here will be nothing more then a chore. You will have to disable everything an AI do and do it manualy each steap, each skill, each hit. Sorry did i miss the memo where the dev's explained how the combat on higher dificulty is now a "Kindergarden simulator" ?

 

Dont get me wrong i dont advocate agenst your wish to play on easy mode whit Xbox controler in hand. I advocate against taking options away from the players that want a chalange not a freaking chore.

I don't even understand what you're talking about here. The tactics systems in the first 2 games were the ones that required you to turn off tactics and babysit the companions so they didn't kill themselves, because the tactics were too basic. Hell, in the second game, they had to throw tactics slots at you every level-up so that you could, essentially, program the friendly AI yourself. You're making the assumption that Bioware didn't just do that part for you, and that's why the tactics syhstem was streamlined. We probably just don't need the whole if > then system anymore.

[SofaJockey]

I tried to use the tactics options this morning (EA Access) and they seemed fine.

 

I was up against an ice resistant boss, so it was really nice to disable Solas' Winter's Breath.

The big lesson is to remember to re-enable the ability afterwards.

 

I set targeting for ranged characters to support my tank, i.e. if my tank was taking aggro, to defend them, that seemed to help and again for my mage to do the same.

 

In DAO / DA2 I rarely went into the tactics menu.

In DAI I suspect I will do so more but not obsessively. 

[Zatche]

...they had to throw tactics slots at you every level-up so that you could, essentially, program the friendly AI yourself. You're making the assumption that Bioware didn't just do that part for you, and that's why the tactics syhstem was streamlined. We probably just don't need the whole if > then system anymore.

That's the thing. I want to program the AI myself. I like setting the if-then statements. It's gratifying to automate my characters' actions and see them play out.

[Vilegrim]

.

 

In order of bolded phrases:

hahaha, do go on

Darn, it's like an actual RPG now...

yes you can. The thing you actually can't do anymore is write the goddamn AI code for BioWare now, which, in the end, was what the tactics system was in the first 2 games.

Again, yes you can. You just can't rely on heal spam to get through difficult fights anymore.

I'll concede rthese next 2 points. Removing DW from the warriors was stupid, but it was likely decided in order to make the game easier to balance. I got over that a game ago.

Everything that actually matters. These are all tiny nitpicks, 2 of which just aren't true. I'm sure with the "can't heal" comment, you're talking about healing spells. Well, there is a dedicated healing spell. It's in the Knight Enchanter tree.

What the f*** does "badwrongfun" mean? Even if I knew what it meant, I'm sure it doesn't make sense to post it after every point.

 

 

I don't know what RPGs you play that give you 0 control over the characters stats...but please tell me so I can avoid them, armour is not the character adn should not define them.

 

No, no you can't, if I can't set up if/then I have to rely on BW AI actually being good..which it never previously has been. BW do some things very well companion AI is something they suck at.

 

Except so far we have a had a massive list of but thou must coming out of reviews, you MUST get the support of the chantry (which imho is like being forced to get the support of Iran  for your human rights organisation.......)  you MUST care about the human refugees, you MUST explore to find food for said refugees, you MUST fight against the mages, ...erm why?

 

Oh yea BADWRONGFUN I first saw on the Paizo Pathfinder boards to refer to a feat selection or tactic that was a fan favourite for either versatility or making an underpowered class actually worthwhile, which then got nerfed into the ground, it came to mean 'doing something you find fun which the devs of a game then tear out as unintended or to complicated for new players' as in this is bad, it's wrong you enjoy it, stop having fun,

[LordParbr]

 

.

 

 

 

I don't know what RPGs you play that give you 0 control over the characters stats...but please tell me so I can avoid them, armour is not the character adn should not define them.

 

No, no you can't, if I can't set up if/then I have to rely on BW AI actually being good..which it never previously has been. BW do some things very well companion AI is something they suck at.

 

Except so far we have a had a massive list of but thou must coming out of reviews, you MUST get the support of the chantry (which imho is like being forced to get the support of Iran  for your human rights organisation.......)  you MUST care about the human refugees, you MUST explore to find food for said refugees, you MUST fight against the mages, ...erm why?

 

DnD. Planscape. Fallout

Yes you can. It has an entire tab for tactics. The reason BioWare's friendly AI has been so bad in the past is because YOU were setting it. That's what the tactics system in the first 2 games was, all things considered. Now, they actually gave the companions AI settings.

First of all, I think you misunderstand what's happening. The world is being torn apart be Fade rifts and demons are pouring through. You really can't be picky in regard to who supports you. You need everyone. This is just another variation of "why couldn't we choose not to destroy the Relay in Arrival?" However, in regard to some of these, I don't think you're right. You probably don't have to care about the refugees. However, you'll ****** someone off if you don't do anything about it. At this point, you're making assumptions and complaining about them.

[LordParbr]

That's the thing. I want to program the AI myself. I like setting the if-then statements. It's gratifying to automate my characters' actions and see them play out.

Well, in that case, that sucks. BW didn't. That happens. I liked dual-wielding as a warrior. Can't anymore. it sucks, but what are you gonna do. I just accept it. The game's still fun

[Mukora]

Pfft. Back in my day, we controlled every character with AI off. And we liked it!

[LordParbr]

damn straight

[Joe Barnin]

This looks fine for me. I do feel for those who liked the level of tactical programming available in DA2 - this is no where near that.

[xkg]

DnD. Planscape. Fallout

 

You have control during the character creation.

 

DnD you can reassign rolled stats to your liking.

Fallout, Planescape you get character points you can distribute them however you like.

[AshenEndymion]

DnD. Planscape. Fallout

 

You do have some control over a character's attributes in DnD...  Never played Planscape or Fallout to comment on those.  But if you're right, I'm glad I haven't(to be honest, I was already glad I haven't played Fallout because I've heard it's a game played in the first-person).

[Mukora]

Fallout games were originally isometric. It's only the newest ones that have been first person (and only one of them is bad.)

[Vilegrim]

DnD. Planscape. Fallout

Yes you can. It has an entire tab for tactics. The reason BioWare's friendly AI has been so bad in the past is because YOU were setting it. That's what the tactics system in the first 2 games was, all things considered. Now, they actually gave the companions AI settings.

First of all, I think you misunderstand what's happening. The world is being torn apart be Fade rifts and demons are pouring through. You really can't be picky in regard to who supports you. You need everyone. This is just another variation of "why couldn't we choose not to destroy the Relay in Arrival?" However, in regard to some of these, I don't think you're right. You probably don't have to care about the refugees. However, you'll ****** someone off if you don't do anything about it. At this point, you're making assumptions and complaining about them.

 

 

Absolutely and completely wrong, central to all 3 was stat customisation at character creation and in the case of Torment every level up

 

Except the AI was bad in ME, in NWN, in KOTOR, in SWTOR, I wont go back as far as BG because everyones games had bad AI then, I do not want their defaults, as suicidal lemming is to kind to the mess that is SWTOR companion AI, and the others are about as bad.

 

Yes the rifts are tearing the world apart, which is the PERFECT time to be settling scores, the chantry is shattered and weak...let the demons eat them all, it is to kind an end I admit, but possession is the worst suffering available, so it will have to do, I would prefer something worse  but needs must. THEN close the rifts, after the job of cleansing Thedas is done.