You've been asking me for this for a while...
First off thank you for making a video explaining the functionality of tactics and behaviors. Second, a question occured to me watching your video, it said under tactics where you choose when to use a certain skill, that it could be used e.g. when it is "appropriate", and it said so without any explanation on what appropriate means in game AI terms. Have you done testing on the tresholds set in the three settings for skills?
Some terrible analogies in this thread.
I'd like some more if > then action but I can live with this I suppose.
Its is a shame though that you can't save tactics build's and flip between them. Anti-mage, Fire Resistance, Cold Resistance etc.
It's a convenience qol thing that makes using their system easier rather than throwing it out.
In that regard I hated the DAO system, as I had to fiddle around with it for ages to actually get everything turned OFF.
Really? It was one tickmark and tactics were off. There you go, every fight, doing the same repetitive thing by yourself for hundreds of times. Oh, the fun ...
Pfft. Back in my day, we controlled every character with AI off. And we liked it!
Back in the day I loved The Wumpus, Star Trek (on the SWTPC) and Zork.
I don't even understand what you're talking about here. The tactics systems in the first 2 games were the ones that required you to turn off tactics and babysit the companions so they didn't kill themselves, because the tactics were too basic. Hell, in the second game, they had to throw tactics slots at you every level-up so that you could, essentially, program the friendly AI yourself. You're making the assumption that Bioware didn't just do that part for you, and that's why the tactics syhstem was streamlined. We probably just don't need the whole if > then system anymore.
Shows how much you used the tactics in the previus two games. They were highly customisable and very indept. To the point where i could specifice that my tank should use his single target tount on elite mobs and if there is group of mobs he will then use his aoe tount after going close to them. I could specifie that my mage use different heals depending on the target my tank is attacking and the ammount of mana my mage have. I could set sinergy's betwen mage's and tanks , i had the ability to give orders how my companions will escape a mob when and how to use escape abilitys. I had the ability to set complex patern for use of combos and the important prioritizing order of targets. Each spell and each action had a wide varaiaty of options that allowed full customization of your actions.
Yes it was taking time to set them up and there was quite a bit of trial and error. Part of the game - part of the whole "tactical" combat thingy.
What you are trying to argue whit me is - "its a good thing they removed an option we could decide to use or not to use before." And my heart bleeds for the whole two and a half min it took you to disable the whole 15 tactic slots for each character.
Point is and this can not be denied - each fight on high dificulty will follow the patern. Select PC - give move order , select target , use shield bash, use tount, select companion 2 , give move order, select a target , use ice bolt, use barrier, slect companion 3, give move order, select tank, put barrier, select target , use chain lighting, select companion 4, give move order , select aoe on target , give support order - unpause - half a second pass something minnor happens - repeat the whole process.......
Micromanaging every move in a boss battle is fine. Micromanaging every move in a trash battle is a chore and annoyance.
Absolutely and completely wrong, central to all 3 was stat customisation at character creation and in the case of Torment every level up
Except the AI was bad in ME, in NWN, in KOTOR, in SWTOR, I wont go back as far as BG because everyones games had bad AI then, I do not want their defaults, as suicidal lemming is to kind to the mess that is SWTOR companion AI, and the others are about as bad.
Yes the rifts are tearing the world apart, which is the PERFECT time to be settling scores, the chantry is shattered and weak...let the demons eat them all, it is to kind an end I admit, but possession is the worst suffering available, so it will have to do, I would prefer something worse but needs must. THEN close the rifts, after the job of cleansing Thedas is done.
In DnD, you roll your stats, and, to prevent min/maxing, a lot of DMs will force you to use what you rolled. In Fallout, most people just min/maxed their stats.
Okay, so the AI was **** in a few of their games... So? That doesn't mean it'll be bad here.
Okay, I see... There's no point in arguing with you further with logic like that. Yes, the perfect time to start settling scores... Then demons destroy the Inquisition and take over Thedas because you had no army to hold them back...
Shows how much you used the tactics in the previus two games. They were highly customisable and very indept. To the point where i could specifice that my tank should use his single target tount on elite mobs and if there is group of mobs he will then use his aoe tount after going close to them. I could specifie that my mage use different heals depending on the target my tank is attacking and the ammount of mana my mage have. I could set sinergy's betwen mage's and tanks , i had the ability to give orders how my companions will escape a mob when and how to use escape abilitys. I had the ability to set complex patern for use of combos and the important prioritizing order of targets. Each spell and each action had a wide varaiaty of options that allowed full customization of your actions.
Yes it was taking time to set them up and there was quite a bit of trial and error. Part of the game - part of the whole "tactical" combat thingy.
What you are trying to argue whit me is - "its a good thing they removed an option we could decide to use or not to use before." And my heart bleeds for the whole two and a half min it took you to disable the whole 15 tactic slots for each character.
Point is and this can not be denied - each fight on high dificulty will follow the patern. Select PC - give move order , select target , use shield bash, use tount, select companion 2 , give move order, select a target , use ice bolt, use barrier, slect companion 3, give move order, select tank, put barrier, select target , use chain lighting, select companion 4, give move order , select aoe on target , give support order - unpause - half a second pass something minnor happens - repeat the whole process.......
Micromanaging every move in a boss battle is fine. Micromanaging every move in a trash battle is a chore and annoyance.
Well, so long as we can just arbitrarily decide how every fight is going to work before we've even played the game, then I'm just gonna say that every fight is going to be a trying test of courage and fortitude, which demands that you carefully plan every attack. Even when you're just fighting a bear.
Oh, this is really disappointing... Why change something that has worked so well before? DA:O's if/then tactics system was one of the best combat feature for me . And now it is gone for the most part. Sometimes, I do not understand what comes to developers' minds when deciding to "improve" a functional, almost-perfectly designed system. I have spent many, many hours experimenting with and setting the right tactics for each party member and enjoying the whole process.
Could a dev chime in and explain clearly why there was ever a need for scrapping a thoroughly though-out tactics system and replacing it with something I do not even understand how to use – based on the video at least. While this new system may not be so difficult to get the grasp of in the end, it apparently lacks the much-needed (and expected) complexity. I was looking so much to a returning tactical view, but without a proper tactics system... BTW., DA:O's tactics system (or possibly that of DA2, but I have not played the latter) existed primarily because it allowed a detailed behavior micromanagement pre-fight or during fighting so we do not need to pause the game every other second. Seriously, I do not like it the other way round with DA:I.
I hate to say this, but the thing may turn out a deal-breaker for me. Bioware, what have you done again?
Vivienne's cleavage = swoooooon
I never managed to get tactics to work perfectly in the previous games. This seems better.
In DnD, you roll your stats, and, to prevent min/maxing, a lot of DMs will force you to use what you rolled. In Fallout, most people just min/maxed their stats.
Okay, so the AI was **** in a few of their games... So? That doesn't mean it'll be bad here.
Okay, I see... There's no point in arguing with you further with logic like that. Yes, the perfect time to start settling scores... Then demons destroy the Inquisition and take over Thedas because you had no army to hold them back...
But at least you got to roll, not assigned some stats which are identical and unalterable no matter the concept or class of the character. Also we are talking about CRPGs are we not, and I showed you where flat out wrong with the examples you gave...so you completely change the rules and declare victory..wut?
they have NEVER done good AI, that was the point.
the chantry and the demons weaken each other..then I wipe out the survivors, job done, if I get a game over for it..I'd be ok with that at least give me the option.
First off thank you for making a video explaining the functionality of tactics and behaviors. Second, a question occured to me watching your video, it said under tactics where you choose when to use a certain skill, that it could be used e.g. when it is "appropriate", and it said so without any explanation on what appropriate means in game AI terms. Have you done testing on the tresholds set in the three settings for skills?
I've tested between the 'enabled' and 'preferred'
Specifically with Barrier my character wouldn't blast the large AOE attacks and would pool Mana to keep spamming Barrier as soon as the CD was done- that's on preferred.
Just normally it was used depedant on the situation. Despite the simplicity the AI is very strong with this one
Back in my day RPGs were boring and tedious and had barely any graphical representation!Back in my day RPGs weren't action games and we liked it!
No it isn't. It's a bad thing when they game effectively plays itself
Well, so long as we can just arbitrarily decide how every fight is going to work before we've even played the game, then I'm just gonna say that every fight is going to be a trying test of courage and fortitude, which demands that you carefully plan every attack. Even when you're just fighting a bear.
then a decent AI customisation is even more vital, the only way this system would be adequate is if every fight could be face rolled.
that looks absolutely shockingly bad, but then Bioware appear to hate options now. No depth or customisability at all, no if/then, no TACTICs in short...way to kick us in the teeth again, can't customise stats (badwrongfun) can't customise tactics (badwrongfun) can't heal (badwrongfun) can't have DW warriors (badwrongfun) can't have sword rogues (badworngfun) what actually are we allowed to do in your game?
then don't buy the game
Yep, most fun part about DA games went down the drain. I'm done with Bioware's games. At least the forum is fun.
then a decent AI customisation is even more vital, the only way this system would be adequate is if every fight could be face rolled.
Nope. It's so harrowing that it requires direct intervention by the player, even with cutting-edge friendly AI.
Nope. It's so harrowing that it requires direct intervention by the player, even with cutting-edge friendly AI.
ahh the same tactic you displayed earlier, change the rules and declare victory when proved wrong.
No it isn't. It's a bad thing when they game effectively plays itself
I agree. Too much automatic fights will alienate players from the game itself. Setting the tactics may be fun but its executions will bore you after a 100 fights later. I still remember people complained FFXII like crazy when it has the similar mechanics.
Back then I played Red Alert or Warcraft 2, no auto-play given and the games were still fun. Auto-play seems to make you mismanage when you don't pay attention.
Here's that crafting video you wanted.
It's not playing itself. It's following your instructions, which you gave in advance.No it isn't. It's a bad thing when they game effectively plays itself
I agree. Too much automatic fights will alienate players from the game itself. Setting the tactics may be fun but its executions will bore you after a 100 fight later. I still remember people complained FFXII like crazy when it has the similar mechanics.
But it's not like the game forces you at gunpoint to switch on tactics. You could turn them off and micromanage your party members every second if that's what you want.
DnD. Planscape. Fallout
Yes you can. It has an entire tab for tactics. The reason BioWare's friendly AI has been so bad in the past is because YOU were setting it. That's what the tactics system in the first 2 games was, all things considered. Now, they actually gave the companions AI settings.
First of all, I think you misunderstand what's happening. The world is being torn apart be Fade rifts and demons are pouring through. You really can't be picky in regard to who supports you. You need everyone. This is just another variation of "why couldn't we choose not to destroy the Relay in Arrival?" However, in regard to some of these, I don't think you're right. You probably don't have to care about the refugees. However, you'll ****** someone off if you don't do anything about it. At this point, you're making assumptions and complaining about them.
This. Well said.
And good comparison, about the Relay. I guess they COULD give you the choice to not get help or not care about the rifts, but it should be rewarded with a nice game over screen. 
Despite being inspired by Skyrim and the likes, DAI is still not a sandbox. There is a narrative, and that requires you to follow the choices the writers give you. If you want complete freedom, Bioware games are not for you.
Hmm, while the AI lacks the versatility of the first two games, it still seems expansive enough for my needs. Taking control of the AI was a given since I don't expect the AI to cast the ice wall spell perfectly on it's own.
I was worried it would be way worse but I'm quite happy with what I'm getting.
Yes the rifts are tearing the world apart, which is the PERFECT time to be settling scores, the chantry is shattered and weak...let the demons eat them all, it is to kind an end I admit, but possession is the worst suffering available, so it will have to do, I would prefer something worse but needs must. THEN close the rifts, after the job of cleansing Thedas is done.
Dude... 
The chantry isn't that bad, remember the chantry sister from the city elf origin?
She was a swell cookie.
Don't blame the group for the actions of the idiotic few.
Otherwise, you're just like all the evil anti-mage people.
A fate worse than death is still, well, worse than even death.
Do not sink to their level of hatred or they will have won. 
Here's that crafting video you wanted.
Wow, yeah.
Not sure why you couldn't just use a singe spot for all the different kinds of crafting.
Did not know you could craft pommels and junk, though.
Feels like I'll only use the crafting system once after every adventure to make sure everybody is up to date. 
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