He's talking abouy maintaining the goo not debating what should be classified as alive.
Are you suggesting human slushee is immune to the elements/decomposition? For billions of years, let alone a day?
He asked what kept it alive.
For that we first need to establish what 'alive' is, don't we? Cause keeping the goo a goo is quite simple: you put it in tank.
For that we first need to establish what 'alive' is, don't we? Cause keeping the goo a goo is quite simple: you put it in tank.
I feel similar. I had wished they stuck with the original Leviathan of Dis and actually had it be a reaper, not a whole other Leviathan. Even having Javik survive was a bit of a stretch, imo. Having the leviathans survive for over a billion years? I don't know. Seems a bit much to me. Though I'm still shocked by the near immortality we see in life such as the "water bear". Who knows. Life enjoys proving to us how wrong we are in many of the assumptions we make. Still seems a bit much though.
I thought they still kept it as a reaper? I swear I thought the DLC simply said that the Leviathan of Dis was the name given to the reaper corpse left by the "reaper killer" [the creature known as the leviathan] by the Batarians who found it
"See, the catalyst underestimated organics' ability by creating the crucible. That means the catalyst was wrong that synthetics would take over."
"See, the quarians and geth are BFFs. That disproves the catalyst."
"Aha, there's a prothean left alive. The catalyst doesn't know what it's saying."
"The geth lost! That shows organics aren't weaker. It's not like synthetics will ever be created again. Screw you catalyst!"
No... The catalyst doesn't have to be god to know enough about organics and synthetics to see the inevitable outcome by their co-existence. It's been presumably verified countless times by the catalyst that organics will create synthetics that will destroy them eventually. Maybe not the first time but some time later. Considering how the geth have rapidly evolved from practically personal butlers to a race superior than any organic's in the timeframe of a few hundred years shows that. And their rise certainly hasn't been without bloodshed; more on the organic side considering the quarians lost the Morning War. A potential peace in wartime doesn't suggest it would last forever. I certainly don't believe it. And the remnants of an organic race hiding in some planet's ocean or in a life pod only disproves that synthetics are omniscient and infallible, which the catalyst never claimed to be the case.
I thought they still kept it as a reaper? I swear I thought the DLC simply said that the Leviathan of Dis was the name given to the reaper corpse left by the "reaper killer" [the creature known as the leviathan] by the Batarians who found it
Shepard's dialogue with Balak in the docks confirms that this backstory is unchanged.
I thought they still kept it as a reaper? I swear I thought the DLC simply said that the Leviathan of Dis was the name given to the reaper corpse left by the "reaper killer" [the creature known as the leviathan] by the Batarians who found it
Sorry, I didn't word it as well as I could.
What I was saying was I wish they had kept the Leviathan as the Leviathan of Dis instead of introducing an entirely new leviathan.
The Leviathan of Dis was/is a reaper. The DLC is called Leviathan and features a race called the Leviathans but they're not reapers. They could had least called them something else. When I heard 'Leviathan dlc' I was expecting it to have more to do directly with the Leviathan of Dis, not some race they invented that also call themselves Leviathan.
I didn't mean that they made the Leviathan of Dis something else. See, to me 'Leviathan' meant the Leviathan of Dis and I would had preferred if they stuck to that instead of inventing a new species and just coincidentally calling them Leviathans as well. Get what I'm saying? I wanted the actual Leviathan (of Dis) to be the star of the DLC and not organic reapers they added in seemingly just to give more context to the starbrat.
I'm still just trying to wrap my head around how the hell the Leviathans made computers and AIs beneath the ocean where they live (I guess?)
Based off what we know about the Leviathans I theorize that they used thralls to create the AI. It is also very unlikely that they actually come from that planet. That is just the planet they're hiding in, I believe. Hiding out on your homeplanet doesn't seem like it would be the wisest of moves.
There are much easier ways of getting said basic components than going around mushing up living creatures. Possibly it's a throrough but destructive scan (although it doesn't look remotely like that, more like crudely destructive). I'm sure they probably do preserve species in the form of a series of records of that species, perhaps in enough detail to (in theory if not in practice) recreate it and its culture pretty accurately.I always take the organic species goo as just being that. Organic matter being broken down into its constituent atoms and remade in to reapers. No leftover Essence of what the goo was before. All the stuff about it being the way to preserve species was rubbish said just to try and justify what the reapers were doing which is wiping out entire races.
Based off what we know about the Leviathans I theorize that they used thralls to create the AI. It is also very unlikely that they actually come from that planet. That is just the planet they're hiding in, I believe. Hiding out on your homeplanet doesn't seem like it would be the wisest of moves.
Sorry, I didn't word it as well as I could.
What I was saying was I wish they had kept the Leviathan as the Leviathan of Dis instead of introducing an entirely new leviathan.
The Leviathan of Dis was/is a reaper. The DLC is called Leviathan and features a race called the Leviathans but they're not reapers. They could had least called them something else. When I heard 'Leviathan dlc' I was expecting it to have more to do directly with the Leviathan of Dis, not some race they invented that also call themselves Leviathan.
I didn't mean that they made the Leviathan of Dis something else. See, to me 'Leviathan' meant the Leviathan of Dis and I would had preferred if they stuck to that instead of inventing a new species and just coincidentally calling them Leviathans as well. Get what I'm saying? I wanted the actual Leviathan (of Dis) to be the star of the DLC and not organic reapers they added in seemingly just to give more context to the starbrat.
I didn't see it that way. I thought the addition of the Leviathan made the story better. A race that has been around longer than the reapers would have some amazing technology. And after going into hiding, it would seem that they dedicated around a billion years of study into reaper vulnerabilities. We're only shown one reaper getting close to a world of theirs, which is likely not the only one they inhabit, then it gets either turned into a thrall or disabled completely. And the voice of the one you talk to is so bad ass.
The existence of the leviathans was an ass pull to justify the existence of the Catalyst. Nothing more.
Provided he survived the batarian terrorist attack on Terra Nova in 2183, Balak will tell Commander Shepard that the Leviathan of Dis was actually a Reaper corpse that the Batarian Hegemony had transported to Khar'shan. After the failure of the attack on Terra Nova, the Hegemony accelerated research on the Leviathan, which then indoctrinated numerous batarian scientists and officials. The indoctrinated officials then sabotaged Hegemony defenses during the Reaper invasion in 2186, allowing the Reapers to easily conquer batarian territories and crush their scattered navy.
After meeting with Dr. Garret Bryson on the Citadel, Shepard will learn from a recorded conversation between Bryson and Admiral Hackett that Task Force Aurora had been investigating the Leviathan of Dis. Bryson's real interest in the Reaper corpse is the entity that killed it, which he identifies as the true Leviathan.
So it was that a Leviathan that killed the Leviathan of Dis. The Leviathan of Dis was a Reaper Corpse.
I agree, there are much more efficient ways of getting material to build reapers. Along with the fact I'm sure if you wanted to store the genetic information of races then there must be easier and more efficient ways of doing it rather than creating a reaper.There are much easier ways of getting said basic components than going around mushing up living creatures. Possibly it's a throrough but destructive scan (although it doesn't look remotely like that, more like crudely destructive). I'm sure they probably do preserve species in the form of a series of records of that species, perhaps in enough detail to (in theory if not in practice) recreate it and its culture pretty accurately.
There are much easier ways of getting said basic components than going around mushing up living creatures. Possibly it's a throrough but destructive scan (although it doesn't look remotely like that, more like crudely destructive). I'm sure they probably do preserve species in the form of a series of records of that species, perhaps in enough detail to (in theory if not in practice) recreate it and its culture pretty accurately.
According to the lore the genetic material is in itself what stores all the knowledge, memory and experiences of the people. In Mass Effect your memories, knowledge, experience (essentially everything that makes you who you are) are all genetic markers that can be read and stored to hardware. The very 'essence' of the species is saved. Stuff like this goes back as far as the first game.
I agree, there are much more efficient ways of getting material to build reapers. Along with the fact I'm sure if you wanted to store the genetic information of races then there must be easier and more efficient ways of doing it rather than creating a reaper.
Do you actually know what reapers are? Also tell me more about your easy ways to store all the memories, knowledge and experiences of entire species. I wasn't aware that this possible outside of fiction land but clearly there are easy and efficient ways to do it. Fascinating.
You're not doing the Reaper's justice if all you think is that they do is store the information. Its more complicated than that. The harvested cycles ARE the reapers. Each reaper is a nation, a billion organic minds all linked together to form one entity. Similar to how the geth consensus works, imo.
If you're actually interested in this Mass Effect lore may I recommend you read the Reaper wiki page? It will only take 10 minutes of your time.
http://masseffect.wi...com/wiki/Reaper
It doesn't.How does it keep the organic goo alive?
The plural of virus is viruses, not viri. Just FYI.So a spore is dead?
btw, using your definition for 'alive' means that both prions and viri are alive.
Thanks for the link now I understand everything about the reapers. I think you get confused between lore and opinion of characters within the game world. Just because the reapers say it's so does not mean its lore and has to be accepted as fact.If you're actually interested in this Mass Effect lore may I recommend you read the Reaper wiki page? It will only take 10 minutes of your time.
http://masseffect.wi...com/wiki/Reaper
Thanks for the link now I understand everything about the reapers. I think you get confused between lore and opinion of characters within the game world. Just because the reapers say it's so does not mean its lore and has to be accepted as fact.
They don't present it as an opinion they present it in the lore as fact. Also, yes, I consider what the game tell us as lore and fact in the fictional universe of Mass Effect. It's a fictional world, we're suppose to regard its lore as fact in that universe. You need to remember that this is a game and none of this stuff is real. You don't have to agree with it or think it makes sense for it to be 'true' in the game universe. It's a fictional place. Much of what the reapers claim is presented in a lore-factual way and not just by the reapers. Edi, the geth, the leviathans, the catalyst even the protheans to a degree all point to the reaper's being more than just opinionated. Should everything that goes against something you're comfortable with be considered just 'opinion' and dismissed in the lore?
Given how popular IT is and how some people REALLY believe it, I guess I shouldn't be too surprised that someone would dismiss the reaper lore, in hindsight.
They don't present it as an opinion they present it in the lore as fact. Also, yes, I consider what the game tell us as lore and fact in the fictional universe of Mass Effect. It's a fictional world, we're suppose to regard its lore as fact in that universe. You need to remember that this is a game and none of this stuff is real. You don't have to agree with it or think it makes sense for it to be 'true' in the game universe. It's a fictional place. Much of what the reapers claim is presented in a lore-factual way and not just by the reapers. Edi, the geth, the leviathans, the catalyst even the protheans to a degree all point to the reaper's being more than just opinionated. Should everything that goes against something you're comfortable with be considered just 'opinion' and dismissed in the lore?
Given how popular IT is and how some people REALLY believe it, I guess I shouldn't be too surprised that someone would dismiss the reaper lore, in hindsight.
It's too bad that lore is something that Mass Effect itself can't consistently take seriously, abandoning certain details for dramatic effect. I mean, just look at the dead banshee in the ardat-yakshi temple. According to the lore, these things create a biotic implosion that makes it impossible to capture their bodies, yet here we have Felere pointing out its corpse.
And let's not forget our badass Sol relay entry. Cool as it looked, it totally breaks what we know about how mass relays work.
In the link it states that the reapers claim that they have neither beginning nor end. We know that is not the case, so maybe just maybe all what the reapers say is not the truth let alone lore.
Hey, I never said the lore was consistent. It's clear that they didn't fully plan out the reapers. Also its important to again point out that it isn't JUST the reapers who tell us about the logic of the catalyst. The prothean VI alludes to it, the leviathans tell you about it, the geth and edi both add extra credit to their claims. Just because a few things are inconsistent doesn't mean we should throw everything else out the window. If you really wanted to you could apply that same level scrutiny to the entire series and find TONS of inconsistencies throughout the trilogy involving everything.
It's just a video game and its story and universe is that of fiction. You can sit and analyze through every little inconsistency and come up with things to complain about or you can just sit back and enjoy it as a piece of fictional entertainment.
Could just be that Sovvy is pretty confident that the organics of this cycle will never figure out what the reapers are all about. And, at that point of the story telling this upstart human who asks a lot of questions that the reapers have no beginning or end sounds a lot more menacing than:
Sovvy: Well, turns out a race of beings who lived billions of years ago created an artificial intelligence, who in turn created us out of harvested species from every cycle of evolution, so that we might continue to harvest species, and we turned on them, and we harvested them first, and we'll keep on doing so until the artificial intelligence finds an an answer for why synthetics and organics can never get along with eachother and... hey, are you listening to me?"
shep: ZzzZzzz- Huh what? Are you still talking?
Sovereign trash talking. "We have no beginning. We have no end. We are infinite." -- this is as cringeworthy as Shepard's comeback line.
Shepard trash talking. "You're just machines. Machines can be broken."
Then Harbinger trash talks Shepard in Arrival, and Shepard trash talks back.
But maybe the reapers worship the Catalyst as their god who has "no beginning and no end. It just is." Because it said so, and the reapers are just machines programmed to do as they're told. They are simply advanced VIs controlled by the Intelligence. The goop is dead and stored in the shell - is hamburger alive? No. What Legion experienced when connected to Sovereign was a connection to the Catalyst - the collective consciousness of all reapers which is why it saw so many minds.
"You're just machines. This time the organics are taking control."
"A philosophy reminiscent of the Quarians. Observe the results of their efforts."
"The Quarians are doing just fine. You're the ones who should worry. Tell your friends we're coming for them..... Never mind. I'll tell them myself."
Sovereign trash talking. "We have no beginning. We have no end. We are infinite." -- this is as cringeworthy as Shepard's comeback line.
Shepard trash talking. "You're just machines. Machines can be broken."
Then Harbinger trash talks Shepard in Arrival, and Shepard trash talks back.
But maybe the reapers worship the Catalyst as their god who has "no beginning and no end. It just is." Because it said so, and the reapers are just machines programmed to do as they're told. They are simply advanced VIs controlled by the Intelligence. The goop is dead and stored in the shell - is hamburger alive? No. What Legion experienced when connected to Sovereign was a connection to the Catalyst - the collective consciousness of all reapers which is why it saw so many minds.
"You're just machines. This time the organics are taking control."
"A philosophy reminiscent of the Quarians. Observe the results of their efforts."
"The Quarians are doing just fine. You're the ones who should worry. Tell your friends we're coming for them..... Never mind. I'll tell them myself."
I'm pretty sure all the information Reapers collect during harvests is transferred (or backed up) somewhere (most likely at the Citadel so Catalyst can add new data to his calculations). They won't risk losing all information on a race if a Reaper is destroyed, because as we saw, it's quite likely.
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