41 réponses à ce sujet

[Stinja]

In the Twitch stream they noted no respec cards, so the only way to adjust your build is to get to 20, and then promote (to level 1), and try again.  

Also mentioned was getting to 20 is a much bigger climb: "not in 4 hours like ME3MP" i think was the quote.

 

So trying out different builds is going to be quite annoying. 

Say you attempt some odd off-the-wall build, it dosent work out, you'll be playing this gimped build for 8? 10? hours before you can respec.  Your team mates will hate you, and you may be less inclined to try weird builds in the future.

 

I've seen no mention of a training room / dojo or whatever to see if test builds are viable, which may be one workaround:  At level 20 say, it could unlock a very simple room with a target dummy, and you can take any of your existing characters to swap and test abilities, but can't save these changes.

 

The other unfortunate thought, is the build variety is so limited, this isn't a concern - so your melee Keeper, using a two-handed hammer, and lots of crowd control powers can't be made 

 

@Biower plz no nerf respec cardz!

[stysiaq]

Really? No respec cards? That's a rong decision.

 

I don't know why they want people to promote so badly.

When I promote I guess the character is thrown back to lower difficulties. It's stupid, why can't I stay at the high difficulty when I want to try out new builds?

[Beerfish]

Will not affect me too much as I don't use many respec cards in MEMP but I can certainly see the need for them for other people.

[Orochi]

weird choice but meh

[simpatikool]

Well, it is early. Who knows what the future will bring.

[Myala]

I don't like it either. Buy I don't think it will be too hard to level up actually. Just join a high match with your friends or hope to get lucky and find some cool people. And just go leeroy Jenkins in the beginning. You will turn into a ghost and can highlight and expose weaknesses of the enemies for your higher level friends. According to the stream you still got gold and xp if you die and your friends live.

[Varus Praetor]

Silly decision on their part unless they trivialize the lvl 20 grind, which it doesn't sound like they've done.  Here's hoping they cave to the tears when the bads mess up their builds next week and patch in a respec feature.

[Solid_Altair]

Although it might not be 4 hours, I don't think it will go much past 5. Besides, you will get a promotion from getting to 20 and returning to 1 to respec the toon. I don't think it will be a big drama.

[KoorahUK]

Trying out different builds adds to the games longevity. I imagine they will introduce respec cards once they've realised a certain amount of revenue from MP

[TheThirdRace]

Although it might not be 4 hours, I don't think it will go much past 5. Besides, you will get a promotion from getting to 20 and returning to 1 to respec the toon. I don't think it will be a big drama.

 

It's no about drama, it's about choice. Some people don't mind spending 3 hours leveling a useless build, some people will respec it asap. While I haven't used respec cards much (less than 10 times over the span of 1000 hours), it's incredibly useful when you actually did something that cripples you.

 

People need to realize that "barriers" introduced by developpers are not always good. Sometime they remove an option that would be useful just because they feel like it. You see it all the time, especially in religions, when someone decide what the other should consider ok or fun or proper, etc.

 

Not including a respec mechanism isn't about balance or difficulty, it's about someone feeling proper that people grind their way to level 20 to erase a bad choice they did. There's no logical way to defend it, yet people do...

[Cyonan]

This is kind of a weird decision for them to make.

 

From the looks of it we're going to have more varied spec options, but it's going to be significantly more time consuming in order for most of us to respec a character.

 

There was plenty of times in ME3 where I wanted to try a seemingly ridiculous build, but I don't really want to have to spend 5+ hours respeccing my character first in order to do that.

 

Although in general, it seems they really want to get us promoting more regardless of if we liked it in ME3 or not.

[Peer of the Empire]

What does a promotion get me.  Pointless

 

Guess will have to spend lots more time theorycrafting, and sneer at peasants who screw up their builds

[BjornDaDwarf]

Are we going to see character experience cards in chests like we did packs in ME3?  If so, that slightly alleviates the headache of having no respec cards.  But it's still not a good decision.  I probably won't use any for the first few weeks anyways, but in later play once I'm really familiar, I absolutely want that as an option.

[Cirvante]

What does a promotion get me.  Pointless

 

Guess will have to spend lots more time theorycrafting, and sneer at peasants who screw up their builds

 

It gives you an additional attribute point for all of your MP characters. So at least there is more incentive to promote this time around.

[Orochi]

It gives you an additional attribute point for all of your MP characters. So at least there is more incentive to promote this time around.

thats good

[Hiero_Glyph]

I think respec cards would be fine so long as they are not drops, nor found in chests.  Basically a player pays X amount of gold and resets their character's skills.  This would be a flat fee (read: doesn't increase) and only limited by the amount of gold available (read: can be respec'ed as many times as wanted).

 

Given that the most expensive chest is 1,200 gold, I think having a respect cost of say 2,000-2,500 gold would be fine.  This would still discourage rampant respecs but allow players to test out new builds without worrying about losing their progress via promotion.  Honestly, is there anything wrong with giving players more control over their characters and an alternate money sink for their gold?  This will be especially useful if/when Bioware rebalances some of the classes.

[stysiaq]

It gives you an additional attribute point for all of your MP characters. So at least there is more incentive to promote this time around.

 

 

more incentive? I'll be promoting until I max out the promotion bonuses as a true MLG Dewrito champion.

[Cirvante]

more incentive? I'll be promoting until I max out the promotion bonuses as a true MLG Dewrito champion.

 

Kook mode activated!

[Orochi]

UNGH there already thinking of Dorritos flavored mountian dew don't let em get started

[Solid_Altair]

It's no about drama, it's about choice. Some people don't mind spending 3 hours leveling a useless build, some people will respec it asap. While I haven't used respec cards much (less than 10 times over the span of 1000 hours), it's incredibly useful when you actually did something that cripples you.

 

People need to realize that "barriers" introduced by developpers are not always good. Sometime they remove an option that would be useful just because they feel like it. You see it all the time, especially in religions, when someone decide what the other should consider ok or fun or proper, etc.

 

Not including a respec mechanism isn't about balance or difficulty, it's about someone feeling proper that people grind their way to level 20 to erase a bad choice they did. There's no logical way to defend it, yet people do...

Yeah. I usually don't like big grinds. But I think their design for the grind in this game is pretty good for what it seems so far.

 

I just don't think that this particular issue is gonna be as big as it seems. People are gonna promote all the time.

 

I think this is gonna be the usual routine:

 

We'll prolly 'save' a favorite character all well equipped at level 20, to play some matches on harder difficulties with your friends. And the less serious matches you're gonna play as characters that are not your main, because if your friends show up out of nowhere, they might be in a low level during your promotion grind.

 

However, in case you miss a skill, having one of your promotion grinds done with your favorite character isn't gonna be the end of the world. It will be one of many and you're gonna be playing as your main character, so it should be good as fun and as training for when you use him in the hard stuff. The only considerable downsides are (a) having to rely on few of his abilities on some early matches, when you're used to have a bunch of his abilities... and ( being called to a 'serious' game and not having your character at a good level (though it won't be too bad, because the equipment will be more important, anyways).

 

What does a promotion get me.  Pointless

Actually, promoting gives you a point. It's not pointless.

 

[Silvershroud]

Trying out different builds adds to the games longevity. I imagine they will introduce respec cards once they've realised a certain amount of revenue from MP

That makes sense to me.   Hopefully you are right, because  with the much larger range of options, I really don't want to be stuck trying to get to level 20 with a build that sucks later in the game once I really start to try a bunch of odd builds like in ME3.

[Stinja]

I just don't think that this particular issue is gonna be as big as it seems. People are gonna promote all the time.

...

Actually, promoting gives you a point. It's not pointless.

 

It's not a big issue, just a disappointing one.  The really interesting thing will be how long it takes to get to 20 from scratch;  i'm guessing optimally you have two players at level 20 carrying two others levelling;  then swap over if needed.

 

I enjoyed trying weird builds in ME3MP, and wasn't a promoter.  My main account was only N7 240 (with maxed manifest), and alt-account was N7 40 (only opened Adept and Vanguard, never promoted), so being a nooby-low N7 was irrelevant to weapons unlocked or ability to complete difficulties.  Promoting was not an incentive, or needed motivation to keep playing.

 

We'll prolly 'save' a favorite character all well equipped at level 20, to play some matches on harder difficulties with your friends. And the less serious matches you're gonna play as characters that are not your main, because if your friends show up out of nowhere, they might be in a low level during your promotion grind.

It's been a while now so i don't recall, but didn't promoting reset the entire class of kits to zero?  i.e.:  promote your Asari Justicar, and your Fury also went to zero?

So while keeping a main kit and a levelling kit would be a good workaround in theory, depending on how the level reset is done in DAMP, this may not work.

 

It just feels like Bioware have decided promoting is a "good thing", and should be forced upon players, which i think is only going to hurt build diversity.

We will have to wait and see how it pans out obviously...

[Catastrophy]

Kook mode activated!

We get pancakes for promoting, too?

[Cirvante]

We get pancakes for promoting, too?

 

Yes, you get pancakes as a special multiplayer-only love interest.

[Solid_Altair]

It's been a while now so i don't recall, but didn't promoting reset the entire class of kits to zero?  i.e.:  promote your Asari Justicar, and your Fury also went to zero?

So while keeping a main kit and a levelling kit would be a good workaround in theory, depending on how the level reset is done in DAMP, this may not work.

In the last stream I think they made it pretty clear that the levels of different characters were totally independent. So, promoting one character shouldn't reset the other toons' level. However, if it is as you fear, than I agree it'll be a disaster.