41 réponses à ce sujet

[cronshaw]

Well that's a kick in the balls

[titoarc]

me3 didnt have respect cards on day 1, they'll probably release them later. But still ... the bonus of restarting at lvl 1 is quite big .. +1 constitucion for each time you do ir with a tank ... just think on the ... +50 or more that some players will get.

[J. Peterman]

Pre-order cancelled.

[DarthLinebacker]

me3 didnt have respect cards on day 1, they'll probably release them later. But still ... the bonus of restarting at lvl 1 is quite big .. +1 constitucion for each time you do ir with a tank ... just think on the ... +50 or more that some players will get.

I'm fairly certain the promotion bonuses are capped(at 10 IIRC). Those caps might be raised in the future, but I'd be extremely surprised if there were no caps on core stats.

[Solid_Altair]

^ Good point. Although the promotion proggression will probably be quite slow. By buying one passive ability you can get 9 points. By promoting a character, which takes 20 levels, you get 1 point.

[Silvershroud]

I'm fairly certain the promotion bonuses are capped(at 10 IIRC). Those caps might be raised in the future, but I'd be extremely surprised if there were no caps on core stats.

Ah, good.  I hope you are correct.  Otherwise I'll be forever promoting...

[Reptillius]

They haven't actually spoken on the caps for promotion bonuses.

 

However to cover a couple of other things in the thread.  Your Characters levels were confirmed in the multiplayer twitch feed that they level up and reset completely independent of each other.  so when you unlock that reaver it is going to be level 1 even if your Legionaire is level 10.  Your Keeper is going to be Separate from your necromancer.  This in a way is a boon for us.  For those of us that find our own awesome builds and want to hold a character back for those level 20 money runs with friends we don't have to hold back an entire class.

 

It got old at times not being able to do my infiltrator because I was holding it back for Gold Runs(and the monetary gains of running Gold) Or later not being able to do my Sentinel because I was really good at using that shield.   Now I can max my Legionaire or my Keeper for example and still have fun promoting the Templar or the Necromancer.

 

The other thing and the main topic of this thread.  In that same Twitch feed the head dev outright states that he didn't put it in first because he wanted your choices on your builds to have some thought and some meaning.  But he actually is holding considerations to potentially change and add in a respect. however if he does add in the respec option it is always going to cost you. There is not going to be any "free respec" option.  So it's not something he is counting out. He just chose not to put it in from the start to see how things go and how people handle the issue of no respec'ing at launch.

[Gnoster]

Didn't they say that promoting a character would benefit all other existing and future characters by enhancing their attribute levels? If so this speaks toward promoting characters fast. Though it shouldn't really mean removing the respec option is a good idea.

 

I also seem to recall something about promoted character appearing as a non story-related NPC in the single player game, but this might be wrong since they have said numerous times MP doesn't have any effect on single player.

[Reptillius]

a non-story related NPC wandering around skyhold wouldn't affect Single Player.

 

And yes. You get a point for all future characters based on which class you promote.

[_Senbonzakura_]

You can equip any gear at level 1, so it won't be that bad once you get some good weapons. Getting to level 10 is also very quick, maybe 2-3 hours with a decent group.

[TheThirdRace]

You can equip any gear at level 1, so it won't be that bad once you get some good weapons. Getting to level 10 is also very quick, maybe 2-3 hours with a decent group.

You realize how bad it sounds?

In ME3, 1 Gold game allowed you to go from level 1 to 8. Another Gold game to get to level 14 for about 45 minutes of play. 2-3 hours is 2.5x to 4x longer compared to that, not to mention in ME3 you were higher level (14 vs 10) so you could say 1-10 was faster than 45 minutes.

Also, you could unlock character cards that considerably reduced the time it took to level.

No respec card isn't the end of the world, but it changes the dynamic a lot on what players will try. It will reduce the diversity, there's no other outcome possible.

[Reptillius]

Theory crafting reduces the diversity.  Not the lack of a respec card.  I'm sure there are already people trying to theory craft the most damaging spec's.  Luckily for me there are almost always builds that in some way break the theory crafting rules and I'm usually pretty good at finding them.

[TheThirdRace]

Theory crafting reduces the diversity.

True, but Bioware can't really control theory crafting. They can control respec cards though...

On the other hand, if Bioware made every skills just as good as the next one, there wouldn't be a best build either. So in a way they also control theory crafting to a certain extent. In ME3, Bioware wasn't pretty good at this, which killed diversity because there was really only 1 way to get the best out of your character. Trying other builds was fun, but couldn't be "justified" logically, you were gimping yourself for the fun of it.

[Reptillius]

Yes. They can.  I could actually make a long drawn out argument that it's lack goes in the face of the theory crafting because theory crafters tend to like the respec cards the most to make the newly learned little tweaks and hold themselves over those that try something a little different.  it's a pointless argument here in my opininion. It won't change either side.

 

 

And ME3 had limited diversity to their characters anyway. You only had 6 individual abilities and no trees and clearly certain skills to buy to play in a certain way.  Those clear advantages drove you basically to play your character in one or maybe two ways. Didn't take any theory crafting at all.  My best friends 12 year old nephew figured most of it out just looking at the screen while I read through each abilities upgrades.  However. There are supposed to be 4 or 5 very viable builds that the Dev's know of to each class. And likely one or two they didn't realize were there in some of them.

 

there is also another thing that Theory crafters usually leave out.  Support and Survivability to the whole team tends not to be calculatable and forgotten.  So for a true team and not just a dps crush their numbers are generally going to be at least partly faulty.  Such a build can actually be more valuable even if it doesn't give out absolute max damage.   It's going to be further fogged because while they can calculate the best and most effective heals their numbers tend to be a lot more questionable when it comes to barrier protections and such, partly because they can't always give you that perfect optimum casting arrangement or time in battles that is going to give you maximum affect out of it.

 

Unless Theory Crafters rewrite their rules they are going to fail us in the support area and we're going to have to do a lot of "live test" work and perhaps some skill to really get the most out of them.

[TheThirdRace]

@Reptilus
It wasn't as easy as it sounds to find the best build. It took a lot of data mining and calculations to give us what we needed to find them. Reading the descriptions wasn't a good idea because most of the time it lied about what it really did. So no, you couldn't just read the ability and know, you could have a good idea, but in-game it wasn't the same as on paper...

On the other hand, I agree there wasn't more than 1 or 2 ways to play each character. The fault is on the lack of abilities to chose from. But that's why they made a lot of different characters. The builds were for 1 character, but you had enough characters on 1 class to try a lot of "builds" too. It's just slightly different than doing all those builds on the same character, but it's basically the same thing. Different characters only gave you a different look if you're looking at it this way.

I would also add that Support and Survivability can be taken into account with DPS builds too. As weird as it sounds, when playing Platinum in ME3, the best supportive and survivable group was 4 DPS characters running around in a perfect group, meaning we moved as one. The damage done was enough to melt anything before it could kill you and if somehow you died, there were 3 people ready to pick you up instantly. Everyone had their role to play to maximize DPS and help us survive. DPS builds, when played well, were the fastest, easiest, more supportive and more survivable way to roll thru the game. There wasn't any incentive to play exclusively "support", everything in ME3 was about DPS. I'm glad DAMP is gonna be different on that account.

[Reptillius]

I didn't read the descriptions really. I read the mechanical values they gave me to say things like headshot damage and such.  Understanding what part of my damage was if I chained my electricity. Things like that.  Maybe I just have an innate sense of the math. But I could also put them in and usually see what the changes were on the screen.

 

But I will admit. My mind works a little differently.  I can see how things fit together in a sense when it comes to packing a lot of stuff in small spaces or cause and effects of things.

[TheThirdRace]

Yet, those numbers or what the ability said it did didn't necessarily worked like that in-game. ME3 was a mess, it lied about the numbers, when it applied, what second effect it had, etc. The best you could do without those theory crafters was to chose what looked like the best combination, but you were far from having the best build with that. I agree though that there could have been much more diversity, we're far from a MMO or any normal RPG game.