190 réponses à ce sujet

[Lulupab]

Prove it. No really, count everyone Anders killed in the blast, all those who died in the subsequent fighting then add in everyone killed during the war.
Now compare that to all the people killed by Sebastian during the possible invasion of Kirkwall.
 
Let's see who has more blood on their hands.
 
Edit:
 
I do admit to finding it somewhat amusing the Anders was forced to flee from other mages who blamed him for starting this. Not enough to let him live, but it's amusing none the less.

I just love how people discredit themselves and grasp at straws, someone needs to read the Asunder novel. The characters there started the war not Anders. Oh and how amusingly you take credit away from Meredith and Templars who actually ordered and did the killing. 

 

Oh I will com back here soon enough but if you want proof go to Varric Cassndra Banter, the way Varric says it, it sounds like a invasion and I have a bridge to sell you if you think it was anything peaceful, the actual word "Invasion" is used and Cassandra asks Varric how he feels about it since it was his home. This doesn't sound like Sebastian walked in and people greeted him. Its an instance of invading a country or region with an armed force. Oh and Kirkwall and Starkhaven have fought before so they don't really like each other, Sebastian annexed and attacked a city for a person who is no longer there.

[Nohvarr]

someone needs to read the Asunder novel. The characters there started the war not Anders.

During a time of fear and distrust of mages that began with the events in Kirkwall. Oh don't worry, the mages in Asunder will be brought to account for their actions too I assure you, but Anders was trying to start a war. He doesn't get off because it took a bit for the atmosphere of fear and mistrust he created to tip things into open chaos.

 

Oh and how amusingly you take credit away from Meredith and Templars who actually ordered and did the killing.

Meredith was only able to do that because Anders killed the one person in Kirkwall capable of stopping her, WHILE turning people against mages in general. or are we going to ignore the fact that fear of mages reached new heights after Anders actions?

 

Oh I will com back here soon enough but if you want proof go to Varric Cassndra Banter, the way Varric says it, it sounds like a invasion and I have a bridge to sell you if you think it was anything peaceful,

Never said it was right or peaceful, I just discounted the idea that Sebastian was looking to burn the city. What was said in a moment of passion and anger is not an indication of future plans. Cassandra planned to kill the Herald, but before you leave for the Hinterlands she's apparently got your back.

 

Too me this looks like people trying to use one possible event to excuse Anders actions. Make Sebastian look bad to prop Anders up. Which is silly, whether or not I agree with Sebastian's actions has no bearing on the horror of what Anders did. Anders is a monster if Sebastian invades Kirkwall, and he's a monster if Sebastian seeks to help rebuild Kirkwall. That never changes.

[dewayne31]

anders is a dead man is all my playthough. especially since he didnt kirkwall when he had the chance

[The Elder King]

I'm happy with the outcome regardless. Now we all know Sebastian is a child and doesn't give a rat's ass about anyone who died in explosion except Elthina or anyone  who dies in his invasion. If anything I'm gonna spare Anders so that he invades and I have a reason to gut him. Sebastian is Vengeance and he doesn't need a spirit to do it.

Good for you. My decision on sparing/killing Anders is never influenced by Sebastian though. My canon killed Anders because he wasn't able to control Vengeance anymore. Well, he died knowing Hawke would protect the mages he put in danger though.

[Mykel54]

It is about time that Sebastian claim his rights as viscount, while his princess is out being bioware errand girl.

I hope she survives and comes back to rule beside him.

[Jaison1986]

Good for you. My decision on sparing/killing Anders is never influenced by Sebastian though. My canon killed Anders because he wasn't able to control Vengeance anymore. Well, he died knowing Hawke would protect the mages he put in danger though.

 

I don't neither. I don't care about Sebastian to be honest. But his actions if you allow Anders to live can't be tolerated. It makes him just as bad as Anders.

 

Anders dying or living in my canon depends on what role he plays in Inquisition. 

[The Elder King]

It is about time that Sebastian claim his rights as viscount, while his princess is out being bioware errand girl.
I hope she survives and comes back to rule beside him.

He has no right on Kirkwall.

[Lulupab]

During a time of fear and distrust of mages that began with the events in Kirkwall. Oh don't worry, the mages in Asunder will be brought to account for their actions too I assure you, but Anders was trying to start a war. He doesn't get off because it took a bit for the atmosphere of fear and mistrust he created to tip things into open chaos.

 

 

 

Meredith was only able to do that because Anders killed the one person in Kirkwall capable of stopping her, WHILE turning people against mages in general. or are we going to ignore the fact that fear of mages reached new heights after Anders actions?

 

 

 

Never said it was right or peaceful, I just discounted the idea that Sebastian was looking to burn the city. What was said in a moment of passion and anger is not an indication of future plans. Cassandra planned to kill the Herald, but before you leave for the Hinterlands she's apparently got your back.

 

Too me this looks like people trying to use one possible event to excuse Anders actions. Make Sebastian look bad to prop Anders up. Which is silly, whether or not I agree with Sebastian's actions has no bearing on the horror of what Anders did. Anders is a monster if Sebastian invades Kirkwall, and he's a monster if Sebastian seeks to help rebuild Kirkwall. That never changes.

 

You know if Templars didn't rebel the mages would be easily put down with help of Chantry and the nations since the mages would seen as a danger for everyone but since the Templars practically did something worse than mages it didn't happen. The Templars aided the mage rebellion more than any mage by going rogue.

 

Also I don't think anyone tries to excuse Anders' actions but there are many reason to keep him alive, specially on a friendship route. Its not any less Justified than keeping Loghian alive which I always do for that matter.

[badboy64]

I always let Anders live and Sebastian has to through his little sissy fit if Anders is not killed.   I wish I would of had the opportunity killed him on the spot. Maybe Hawk can finish the job this time around.

[LOLandStuff]

You mean a demon made him do it.

 

Who buys into that excuse?

[Mykel54]

He has no right on Kirkwall.

If he married the viscountess Hawke, then yes, he does.

[The Elder King]

I don't neither. I don't care about Sebastian to be honest. But his actions if you allow Anders to live can't be tolerated. It makes him just as bad as Anders.
 
Anders dying or living in my canon depends on what role he plays in Inquisition.

I didn't say they Should be tolerated. Hopefully You can stop him.
I doubt his role will be big. At best He'll have a cameo.

[LOLandStuff]

With Corepheus on the loose and the Breach, I doubt Anders can go his merry way without being mind controlled by someone.

 

In the Varric trailer when he said "Not again", I'm sure he thought of Anders.

[The Elder King]

If he married the viscountess Hawke, then yes, he does.

If the viscountess left the city and abandoned her rights to the throne, no, he didn't.
Also, in This case you can't make him invade Kirkwall. Because if he invades it means you spared Anders, and I don't think the relationship carries on in This case.

[Lulupab]

Good for you. My decision on sparing/killing Anders is never influenced by Sebastian though. My canon killed Anders because he wasn't able to control Vengeance anymore. Well, he died knowing Hawke would protect the mages he put in danger though.

 

I did kill Anders on some of my playthroughs but he is alive in my canon playthrough where I didn't recruit Sebastian and I'm glad its a possible outcome on the keep unlike most DLC outcomes of DA2 and ME where stuff happens regardless of if you played the DLC or no. Hawke didn't recruit/meet Sebastian, plain and simple. My canon Hawke hated the chantry and for very valid reasons. In the beginning of the DA:I Inquisition's worst enemy is the Chantry too, they denounce the Inquisition and herald of Andraste. 

 

I really do dislike the Chantry and I'm glad its confirmed the Inquisition has nothing to do with the Chantry unless you want it to.

[Nohvarr]

You know if Templars didn't rebel the mages would be easily put down with help of Chantry and the nations since the mages would seen as a danger for everyone but since the Templars practically did something worse than mages it didn't happen. The Templars aided the mage rebellion more than any mage by going rogue.

The Templars started restricting freedoms and keeping a closer eye on mage because Anders killed hundreds in a blast, and the world began to fear them like they had during the time of Tevinter. So instead of seeking a way to redeuce that fear, Some mages voted to rebel. Oh sure I plan to hold the Templars accountable for their actions as well (current plan is to wipe out the remaining idiots on both sides and brings the remnants to heel), but that dosen't let the mages off the hook either.

 

Also I don't think anyone tries to excuse Anders' actions but there are many reason to keep him alive, specially on a friendship route. Its not any less Justified than keeping Loghian alive which I always do for that matter.

You can find whatever excuse you like to keep him around. I put him in the ground right next to Loghian. I have little tolerance for either of them.

[Exile Isan]

If he married the viscountess Hawke, then yes, he does.

Not really. The Viscount of Kirkwall is a position that is voted on, not inherited, correct? Being married to the current Viscount does not give him any claim on the city. Or make him in line for succession. He may have a personal interest in who rules the city but not a legal right to rule the city.

[Birdy]

Not really. The Viscount of Kirkwall is a position that is voted on, not inherited, correct? Being married to the current Viscount does not give him any claim on the city. Or make him in line for succession. He may have a personal interest in who rules the city but not a legal right to rule the city.

It might be voted on or not, but replaying DA2, I got the impression that it was semi-inherited.  A family line "ruled" for a while till something bad happened.

[TheCreeper]

I think I only have maybe one keep build where Anders is alive, even if I agreed with his actions, which I don't, he's still too dangerous to let live.

[Exile Isan]

I'm rather glad in a way that Sebastian finally grew a spine and stopped having people make decisions for him. On the other hand it is interesting to see that he is really a hypocrite as I suspected all along. He condemns Anders for his actions of blowing up the Chantry with one person he, Sebastian, loves in it and killing other innocent people. Yet he is willing to kill innocent people and take a city by force to kill one person. A city that has already had order restored by Aveline and Cullen and a city where his target is no longer residing. Both actions, Anders and Sebastian's, are acts vengeance and terrorism, IMO. I guess Sebastian's is more tolerable because he's not a mage, he's a devout Andrastian and a prince?

 

And yes I left Anders alive, but only because my Hawke couldn't kill the one person who was the reason she had any family left (Carver, Deep Roads)

[Lulupab]

I'm rather glad in a way that Sebastian finally grew a spine and stopped having people make decisions for him. On the other hand it is interesting to see that he is really a hypocrite as I suspected all along. He condemns Anders for his actions of blowing up the Chantry with one person he, Sebastian, loves in it and killing other innocent people. Yet he is willing to kill innocent people and take a city by force to kill one person. A city that has already had order restored by Aveline and Cullen and a city where his target is no longer residing. Both actions, Anders and Sebastian's, are acts vengeance and terrorism, IMO. I guess Sebastian's is more tolerable because he's not a mage, he's a devout Andrastian and a prince?

 

And yes I left Anders alive, but only because my Hawke couldn't kill the one person who was the reason she had any family left (Carver, Deep Roads)

 

Perhaps not recruiting Sebastian and sparing Anders does not lead to that scenario.

 

On a side note the stream I was watching in which Sebastian invaded Kirkwall, there were 2 darts on war map right on free marches, very close to shore which is where probably Kirkwall is. Wonder if we visit either in main game or DLC.

[Parkimus]

I'm rather glad in a way that Sebastian finally grew a spine and stopped having people make decisions for him. On the other hand it is interesting to see that he is really a hypocrite as I suspected all along. He condemns Anders for his actions of blowing up the Chantry with one person he, Sebastian, loves in it and killing other innocent people. Yet he is willing to kill innocent people and take a city by force to kill one person. A city that has already had order restored by Aveline and Cullen and a city where his target is no longer residing. Both actions, Anders and Sebastian's, are acts vengeance and terrorism, IMO. I guess Sebastian's is more tolerable because he's not a mage, he's a devout Andrastian and a prince?

 

Well, looking over this thread it seems many fans of Anders give him a pass too. "Oh sure, he invited a spirit into his body, but he had no idea that bad things could happen by doing so. He was never ever taught in the Circle otherwise, he can't possibly be held accountable for his actions! So what if Anders blew up a Chantry and killed people? Sebastian's vengeance is simply intolerable, especially given that he had warned you he would do so if you spare Anders! Sebastian is a hypocrite for following through on his threat!"

 

Mind you, I'm not happy about Sebastian's ultimatum but I admit to preferring him over Anders. I do hope we see Sebastian and/or Anders in-game though.

[Hair Serious Business]

I only know one thing...man that takes his anger and rage on people that never did anything to him is simply putted...not man at all!

If you are angry on one person,two or three or whatever count...then please go and do murder rampage on these people that did you wrong not on people that have nothing to do with your 'period' in here.

Attacking others simply because you were unable to take your rage on person you wanted simply makes you cowardly little b*tch with no b@lls that doesn't deserve to call himself a man.

Anders kills Grand Cleric and everyone in chantry for his "mage plot"...Sebastian goes on 'murder rampage' around like little brat that is killing everyone because you didn't bought him 'toy' he wanted...Carver busy being in 'EMO club'...Cullen too busy being behind Meridith's skirt to oppose her on time...Viscount busy hiding in office to do something about Qunari...is it just me or there were no real human men in DA2?God Shale was right...our kind is really "doomed" 

[Exile Isan]

Well, looking over this thread it seems many fans of Anders give him a pass too. "Oh sure, he invited a spirit into his body, but he had no idea that bad things could happen by doing so. He was never ever taught in the Circle otherwise, he can't possibly be held accountable for his actions! So what if Anders blew up a Chantry and killed people? Sebastian's vengeance is simply intolerable, especially given that he had warned you he would do so if you spared Anders! Sebastian is a hypocrite for following through on his threat!"

 

Mind you, I'm not happy about Sebastian's ultimatum but I admit to preferring him over Anders. I do hope we see Sebastian and/or Anders in-game though.

 

Oh, I agree. Fans do tend to give their favorites a pass. But just as many people seem to be hand waving Sebastian's actions as he was just trying to restore order, etc. Which irritates me. It is false because we already know that order was restored by Cullen with I'm sure help from Aveline. That said neither Anders or Sebastian are my favorite characters. In fact I would say they are on the bottom. Carver, Fenris, and Varric being my favorite, Aveline, Merrill, and Isabela in the middle, Bethany and Anders just slightly above Sebastian in the bottom rung.

 

If he was hunting just Anders with a group of Templars or soldiers and not taking a whole city by force, because that's what invasion means, to find Anders then I would not call him a hypocrite. I don't have any problem with him hunting Anders to kill him (I probably would to if I was in Sebastian's shoes) but I do have a problem with him attacking a city under the guise of hunting for one man that isn't even in said city he is attacking. Taking his revenge on the people of Kirkwall and not Anders and Hawke is what makes him a hypocrite in my eyes. At least Anders can kinda claim the Chantry as a enemy to mages, how are the people of Kirkwall an enemy to Sebastian?

[Kinsz]

yea because we have absolute confirmation that Sebastian is killing "innocents" in kirkwall, right ? right? wrong , the ridiculousness in this thread is beyond words.

 

Anders pretty much killed Sebastian's mother ( he pretty much considered elthina that ) of course he'd want revenge, who wouldnt ? trying to discredit him by making stuff up such as " but but his army is raping women and killing innocents" when you have 0 proof that he is in fact killing "innocents" is beyond comical. If anything he is probably purging the city of the blood mages that stayed behind and hasnt touched anyone else :-) ( see i can make stuff up as well to benefit me ).

 

Anyways if you killed Anders as shown in a video before , Sebastian does not attack Kirkwall.