Aveline really was a ****** there for actually saying not to hire him.
Yeah I only played the mage class once so it didn't quite register at first, but thinking about it later, it bugged me that Hawke could not say something to Aveline or put in a good word for his/her brother. What really gets me is that Carver was also part of king Cailan's army. Do a fellow soldier a favor, ya jerk.
Well damn a thread I made is active, what do you know? It would seem I just so happened to get a bad impression of Carver from a few sources, definitely putting a mage Hawke on my to-do list now.
2. Carver doesn't turn mage Hawke into the templars regardless of his fate.
Not only does he not turn you in but he even protects you by keeping the Hawke name out of the reports. Now he could be doing this to protect himself but I like to think he is looking out for big brother/sister. At least when the older Hawke is a female Carver does get his Peaches.
Now he could be doing this to protect himself but I like to think he is looking out for big brother/sister.
Actually, if Carver was simply looking out for himself, the best course of action would be to stop protecting Hawke altogether, as taking her name off of the reports to keep her below the Templars' radar puts himself at risk with the order as well, should any particularly diligent Templar catch wind of it.
Carver grew on me.
He's a complete arse at the start of the game, no doubt about it. Sullen, resentful, questioning Hawke for the sake of being oppositional....yeah, he annoyed the hell out of me.
But as I replayed DA2, I actually found myself preferring him to Bethany. Bethany's almost too nice, like she was designed to be easy to get along with. Carver has more personality, even if it is initially of the obnoxious kind. After the Deep Roads expedition, especially if he survives the expedition himself, he seems to have matured as a character. Having a sense of purpose does a lot for him, I think. His reaction to his personal quest in Act 1, where you find out why Carver has the name he does, is also quite nice.
And to an extent, Carver's personality does make sense. I mean, he's not a mage, and he's not the eldest child. You can see why he might feel he is always living in the shadow of his siblings.
Oh, he also has some great dialogue with Varric and Isabella.
Oh, he also has some great dialogue with Varric and Isabella.
Anyone that has great dialogue with those two deserves my attention. 
This one was pretty outstanding:
(If Hawke is in a romance with Isabela)
- Isabela: You certainly fill out a skirt Carver. A shame, I suppose you're all religious and such now.
- Carver: Do you know how long the Chant of Light is? How much stamina it requires?
- Isabela: Go on...
- Carver: With passion'd breath comes darkness, but with many against Her, She finds His light untiring as it parts the Veil.
- Isabela: Not sure if I'm aroused or scared. I like it.
(If Sebastian is in the party)
- Hawke: No you don't. No, she doesn't!
- Sebastian: Don't do that to the Chant!
- Isabela: Shush, you.
I'd love to play a mage but the moment Bethany dies and I'm stuck with Carver I start to resent the playthrough. I mean Bethany is so nice and great to have around whereas Carver just feels like a nuisance, I won't judge too harshly because all I know is that after the Expedition he becomes a Templar if you don't take him with you (so if you're pro-mage he's gonna ****** you off even more?). Any of you see redeeming qualities about him? Maybe it'll encourage me to give him a chance.
I use to hate Carver now I'm at the point where I can understand his POV, and his position in the packing order of the family. I can understand where hes coming from... A father who is an apostate and spending more time with his mage children rather than his non mage son, Carver. To that respects I do not blame him for showing jealously and hate towards my mage Hawke.
I always make him stay at home during the expedition (Someone has to take care of mother, and had I died mother would still have a son left rather than to be childless) thus becoming a Templar. It is rather ironic that his job is now hunting apostates like my character. I can't hate him for doing this because Carver did tried to get a job at being a Kirkwall guard, but Aveline kept interfering therefor preventing him from being a guard.
Carver: Did you approve my application?
Aveline: I can't make you a guard, Carver.
Carver: We were both soldiers. Why won't they take me?
Aveline: I was an officer. And I follow orders.
Carver: (Laughs) No you don't.
Aveline: I also think of others before myself. You seem tired of that, and that's dangerous.
Carver: Just when it's not my choice. You told them not to take me, didn't you?
Aveline: Yes.
To that respects I blame Aveline for Carver being a Templar.. She was very spiteful to Carver, thinking that shes better than him. Apparently she forgot who brought her into the city.
At the very end... when Meredith truly showed herself was one of the most badass moments... Carver man up and stood in front of me with his sword facing Meredith, and that also included Cullen. Carver became the hero that he always wanted to be.
Had I made Carver into a Grey warden I would of shorten his lifespan. I don't think I could do that to my brother.
I use to hate Carver now I'm at the point where I can understand his POV, and his position in the packing order of the family. I can understand where hes coming from... A father who is an apostate and spending more time with his mage children rather than his non mage son, Carver. To that respects I do not blame him for showing jealously and hate towards my mage Hawke.
Just because you can understand someone doesn't mean their behavior is justified or you have to like them.
Just because you can understand someone doesn't mean their behavior is justified or you have to like them.
Back in High school one of my classes was peer counseling so I was taught to understand the psychological aspects of why people behave the way they do. Carver gave me no valid reasons not to like him other than to pity him.
Back in High school one of my classes was peer counseling so I was taught to understand the psychological aspects of why people behave the way they do. Carver gave me no valid reasons not to like him other than to pity him.
Yah that's the thing, he has what appears to be huge self-esteem issues. Which is also weird because this is a guy who can jump 10 feet into the air while wielding a sword almost as big as he is. If I could do that I would be walking around like I owned the place.
I always go warrior or rogue because it makes zero sense that a Mage Hawke is not at any one point at risk of being captured by the Templars considering how open his or her activities are. Malcom Hawke had to flee the city because he used one spell on a dockside battle, I mean how quaint is that? So I never had to deal with Carver, but I always thought his personality did not mesh with his personal history and capabilities. Again, a Bioware mishap - they should have just made him the default dead sibling and invested in a side campaign with Bethany.
Sounds like I have to do a mage playthrough.
Yah that's the thing, he has what appears to be huge self-esteem issues. Which is also weird because this is a guy who can jump 10 feet into the air while wielding a sword almost as big as he is. If I could do that I would be walking around like I owned the place.
I always go warrior or rogue because it makes zero sense that a Mage Hawke is not at any one point at risk of being captured by the Templars considering how open his or her activities are. Malcom Hawke had to flee the city because he used one spell on a dockside battle, I mean how quaint is that? So I never had to deal with Carver, but I always thought his personality did not mesh with his personal history and capabilities. Again, a Bioware mishap - they should have just made him the default dead sibling and invested in a side campaign with Bethany.
I haven't played DA2 in a long time, however I always thought that he had a low self-esteem issue, and not high. The whole idea of him jumping 10 feet up into the air while wielding a big sword is a tad bit overly exaggerated if you ask me. I honestly didn't take that move seriously. The Longbar Blade that carver was equipped with was also a tad bit ridiculous considering the fact that it's completely unrealistic. I don't think anyone on an athletic scale could wield it, especially using it during a life and death battle. I just hope that bioware tones it down a bit, and make it a bit realistic.
As much as I love the story concept of Dragon age 2, as it had the perfect formula to make it a great game, not much was put into it. No recognition of class, no consequences base on your action, nothing. I think Bioware has realize their mistake and had corrected it by adding it into Inquisition. They made a big deal about consequences base on the actions you take. I would of liked to had seen the Circle life... by getting arrested by the Templar's and taken to the gallows. It would've made a great quest 
I still do love playing as a mage in DA2. I am a Mage nut and can't seem to not play DA without being a mage. I know I'm cutting myself short, but I have mage flowing through my veins and into my blood 
I haven't played DA2 in a long time, however I always thought that he had a low self-esteem issue, and not high.
When I said "huge" I meant that he let his low self-esteem overly control his viewpoint not that he had a big ego.
Back in High school one of my classes was peer counseling so I was taught to understand the psychological aspects of why people behave the way they do. Carver gave me no valid reasons not to like him other than to pity him.
Well, I have a bachelor's degree in psychology so I'm even more familiar with the "why's" of Carver's behavior.
He gave me plenty of reasons to not like him. He bitches about being in Hawke's shadow yet contributes to it by blaming Hawke (a year later, mind you) for Bethany dying. You can't have it both ways, Carver!
And if he's a rival he's a jerk. In Act 2 as a warden he gives you the cold shoulder after 3 years. As a templar it goes something like:
"Now's not the time for your petty grudges, Carver."
"Now seems like the perfect time."
Then in Act 3 as a warden and rival he whines "What are you doing here? Just like always!" as he bitches about Hawke helping. This is after not seeing his sibling for 3 years. That's the attitude of someone who despises their sibling.
This is just the tip of the iceberg. His attitude is constantly whiny and being something of a martyr.
Carver was a snotty little brother.
They nailed that perfectly -- the snotty, the little, and the brother parts. And I love every second of it. He's a little ****, but he's my little ****.
Carver is my second favorite companion in DA2. Totally agree with his take on Anders and mages in general.
Well, I have a bachelor's degree in psychology so I'm even more familiar with the "why's" of Carver's behavior.
He gave me plenty of reasons to not like him. He bitches about being in Hawke's shadow yet contributes to it by blaming Hawke (a year later, mind you) for Bethany dying. You can't have it both ways, Carver!
And if he's a rival he's a jerk. In Act 2 as a warden he gives you the cold shoulder after 3 years. As a templar it goes something like:
"Now's not the time for your petty grudges, Carver."
"Now seems like the perfect time."
Then in Act 3 as a warden and rival he whines "What are you doing here? Just like always!" as he bitches about Hawke helping. This is after not seeing his sibling for 3 years. That's the attitude of someone who despises their sibling.
This is just the tip of the iceberg. His attitude is constantly whiny and being something of a martyr.
I always rival Carver (I am pro mage) so I see where you're coming from. He act like a total child in a mans body. I also believe that it was Leandra who also pin points the blame for Bethany's death on the player if I recall correctly. It's been a while since I played the game.
Even after all the bitching and playing the blame game on the player for Bethany's death he actually redeemed himself at the very end, as a Templar, who stood up for you against his superior. That is well enough for me. If Carver truly despises his sibling wouldn't he stood up for Meredith, and had taken her side? Wouldn't he had faught against his sibling to the very end, to the death? This is not your typical sibling rivalry.
Have you seen everybody loves raymond? It's a similar scenario.
Carver is 18 in act 1. I like how he matures if you make him a grey warden, too bad you don't have much of it though.
I always rival Carver (I am pro mage) so I see where you're coming from. He act like a total child in a mans body. I also believe that it was Leandra who also pin points the blame for Bethany's death on the player if I recall correctly. It's been a while since I played the game.
Leandra only blames Hawke in a fit of grief over the sibling's body in the prologue, but will apologize for that when Hawke brings it up in conversation in Gamlen's house. Carver is the one that used it against Hawke a year after it happened. In fairness, Carver seems to regret what he says in this dialogue, depending on how you respond.
He turned out to be one of my fave characters. My approval with him was never more than a bit above the middle, but later in the game he showed genuine affection towards Hawke. Also, as a Warden he becomes a better person, imo. He takes it all in stride and ends up with a better relationship with Hawke. Bethany seemed to resent my Hawke when she became a Warden and I felt like their relationship was strained.
Reading through this thread has certainly changed my mind about Carver. I hadn't played the game in a long while, and I'm trying to get a game in before playing DA:I. I started as a rogue and, of course, had Bethany along, but I've only ever played a mage once, of all the times I've played DA2, and that time Carver didn't survive the deep roads -- on purpose. 
I, uhh, didn't like the guy.
But I thought I'd try a mage again, cuz Bethany looked liked she was having a hell of a lot more fun in combat than I was, and I thought, "Hey, I wanna do that!" ... so here I am looking for some reason to like Carver, and ... well... thanks everyone. I'll give him a shot.
I think the scene at the end of Legacy DLC with Carver being a Grey Warden and you two being friends is one of the most poignant in the whole game(though the same scene with Gamlen is a great one, too, albeit said). And, yes, both Legacy and Mask bring more to his personality, though I really miss him in Acts 2 and 3. But I'm a fan: I always create a mage Hawke now.
Carver grew on me.
But as I replayed DA2, I actually found myself preferring him to Bethany. Bethany's almost too nice, like she was designed to be easy to get along with. Carver has more personality, even if it is initially of the obnoxious kind.
Agreed. Bethany is sweet but it almost seems like that's all she is. The dynamic between Hawke and Carver is more intense and entertaining. He's an absolute pain in the ass and I can rarely resist sarcastic or aggressive/direct responses to his complaints, but he makes for an interesting opponent in dialogue and can give Hawke more character in return.
I can understand Carver's frustration with the mages in the family. In a way he got all the burdens associated with magic (having to lay low, move from place to place for years, not excel and draw attention) while not having the abilities himself. It's not strange he's become so resentful. His youth must have been pretty lonely, as Bethany seems more drawn to the older Hawke sibling because they both have magic and get along well. So it must seems even his twin doesn't have much in common with him.
I don't have much of a problem with Carver remaining a brat for the entire game. A lot has happened between the two siblings and whether he becomes a Warden or a Templar, they both see each other rarely, if anything at all. Templar Carver refuses to talk to Hawke and as a Warden there's even less of a chance for visits. Carver can soften a bit but the grudge doesn't fade completely. That's alright. Carver proves that he stands with Hawke when it matters most. He stands up for him/her in Act 3 against Meredith, but also in Act 1 when Fenris shows distrust of Hawke's magic. Despite all his flaws and grudges he has his heart in the right place.
Carver > Bethany. Bethany is just a giant bore. Boring as a Circle mage, boring as a Warden.
At least Carver has some interesting interactions and conflicts with Hawke and the rest of the party. And yeah, he grows. His development is actually one of the rare instances in the game of Bioware's vision of ''a story that spans over a decade'' being done right.
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