33 réponses à ce sujet

[Yount14]

Whats up with snarky bethany in act 2? Shes a grey warden and says something about how mad she is for what i did to her and the comment has nothing to do with their mother obviously. I thought i did the best thing possible for her kept her out of the circle then saved her life in the best way possible but apparently she hated me for it? Dont get it

[LOLandStuff]

She's too sensible, not fit to be a warden. Knowing when your death comes, having bad dreams and fighting darkspawns underground aren't for her.

[Birdy]

Yep, Beth is more suited for being in the Circle. Just like Carver is much happier as a Warden.

[LonewandererD]

She's damned either way. Forced to live in a oppressive environment where her every move is scrutinised and the people around you are trained to put a sword in you at the first sign of trouble. Or forced to join an order and fight an unholy enemy all the while knowing you're living on a time limit. The circle at least is a hell she may not have known but one she would have expected.

 

-D-

[c00lgy24]

umm sorry i think you may be in the wrong place . . . 

[thats1evildude]

DA2 sort of dispels the notion that life as a Grey Warden is filled with awesome awesomeness. Think of it more like being a firefighter waiting for a massive wildfire that may never come.

Between stints of waiting in the fire house, you occasionally have to run out to douse smaller fires that frequently claim the lives of your fellow firefighters. When you sleep, you never dream of anything but fire. And while firefighters are allowed to have famliies, they do so with the full knowledge that they will have to leave them at a young age.

And one day, when you've gotten so scarred from fighting fires, they make you walk into one more fire to be burnt away to ash.

[Cyrus Amell]

DA2 sort of dispels the notion that life as a Grey Warden is filled with awesome awesomeness. Think of it more like being a firefighter waiting for a massive wildfire that may never come.

 

Between stints of waiting in the fire house, you occasionally have to run out to put out smaller fires that constantly claim the lives of your fellow firefighters. When you sleep, you never dream of anything but fire. And while firefighters are allowed to have famliies, they do so with the full knowledge that they will have to leave them at a young age.

 

And one day, when you've gotten so scarred from fighting fires, they make you walk into one more fire to be burnt away to ash.

 

Well, that was one heck of an allegory. In Dragon Age Origins you are not personally forced to endure or even see the effects that the taint induced nightmares have on your character. We go in, save the day and get to be a big hero but for the average warden I suppose its all far less glamorous. A mage warden might enjoy being slightly less constrained than they would be in the Circle (save in Bethany's case) but a Noble Warden would have to live with the fact that he or she can never go back to living a life of privilege or family.

[(Disgusted noise.)]

She resents you for it because she would have rather died quickly in the Deep Roads than face the difficult and brutal life of a Warden. Yes, you save her life, but in doing so you gave her a life she doesn't think is worth living. I don't necessarily agree with her about it, but the fact she feels that way is fascinating and frankly, in my opinion, the only interesting thing about Bethany.

[nuclearpenguin]

If you send her to the Circle, she is actually happier there than being a grey warden.

[KaiserShep]

DA2 sort of dispels the notion that life as a Grey Warden is filled with awesome awesomeness.

 

I thought DA:O made it pretty clear that being a Warden is pretty much a crappy existence. Despite all the glory the Warden gets to experience during that time, the truth is that each and every Warden is royally f***ed the moment they drink that darkspawn blood, since you basically learn that you're destined for a suicide pact to avoid a more ghoulish end. For the greater good, of course, but that doesn't make them any less screwed.

 

If I was Bethany, I might be a bit sour too, having nothing to look forward to but fighting monsters in the dwarves' stifling tunnels and having nightmares that not even the worst liquors could induce.

 

Anyway, from the perspective of Bethany's sibling, I'd rather subject her to life in a Circle than life as a Warden. I guess I wouldn't fancy the idea of any sister of mine having to trek into the blighted Deep Roads on a regular basis, likely to never come out of it.

[Lulupab]

Beth is not more "suited" to be in circle, it takes time for her to get used to being a Grey Warden. She is too optimistic and fairy tale kind of a person in act 1 and you bet she will face hardships with the wardens. But they will polish her into a very strong woman as seen in the end of act 3 when she returns. 

 

She is happier in the circle but she faces reality of what she is and becomes a stronger woman if made grey warden but she will be quite unhappy for most of the game.

[thats1evildude]

 

I thought DA:O made it pretty clear that being a Warden is pretty much a crappy existence. Despite all the glory the Warden gets to experience during that time, the truth is that each and every Warden is royally f***ed the moment they drink that darkspawn blood. For the greater good, of course, but that doesn't make them any less screwed.

 

 

The drawbacks were somewhat lost amongst the heroics.

[KaiserShep]

The drawbacks were somewhat lost amongst the heroics.

 

Not for me they weren't. All this constant talk of sacrifice and stuff Duncan and Wynne go on about sounds pretty, but it's undeniably crappy at the same time.

[Silfren]

Whats up with snarky bethany in act 2? Shes a grey warden and says something about how mad she is for what i did to her and the comment has nothing to do with their mother obviously. I thought i did the best thing possible for her kept her out of the circle then saved her life in the best way possible but apparently she hated me for it? Dont get it

 

You didn't save her life in the best way possible, though.  Rather it was through the only way available to you, which is not even remotely the same thing.

 

She's been doomed to a short life replete with darkspawn nightmares and had a life of constant hardship and ever-present death forced upon her which she simply is not suited for.  Her nickname is Sunshine, for cripe's sake, driving home the tragedy of her being consigned to fighting the darkest elements of Thedas.  It may be unfair of Bethany to blame Hawke, when Hawke was acting out of desperation, but that doesn't make Bethany's resentment and anger any less understandable.  She's bitter at the hand she's been dealt, as anyone would be.  

Whether it makes sense, or whether it's fair, for her to blame Hawke is missing the point.  It's a very real, very human reaction.

[KaiserShep]

Whether it makes sense, or whether it's fair, for her to blame Hawke is missing the point.  It's a very real, very human reaction.

 

If there's one thing we humans excel at, it's tossing rationality out the window.

[Lulupab]

If there's one thing we humans excel at, it's tossing rationality out the window.

 

At one instance where I made Bethany a grey warden for the first time I promised myself I won't do it again because she was really miserable but her attitude at the end of the game was very satisfying. She was actually happy that now she can stand up for her people (mages) and she was even more glad that I was on her side and more importantly made a very big apology about the way she acted and called being my sister the best thing that happened to her.

 

She collected the rationality she threw out.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

She's damned either way. Forced to live in a oppressive environment where her every move is scrutinised and the people around you are trained to put a sword in you at the first sign of trouble. Or forced to join an order and fight an unholy enemy all the while knowing you're living on a time limit. The circle at least is a hell she may not have known but one she would have expected.

 

-D-

 

At least conditions of life in the Circle theoretically can be improved. As a Warden, you are tainted and it's all downhill from there.

[SmilesJA]

Not for me they weren't. All this constant talk of sacrifice and stuff Duncan and Wynne go on about sounds pretty, but it's undeniably crappy at the same time.

 

True but once you slay the Archdemon and save the world, their words don't resonate much. I liked what DA2 did: Answer the question what happens to Grey Wardens after a blight? And judging on how Bethany reacts, It's less about sacrifice and heroism and more about death, killing and misery.

[WarriorOfLight999]

I think if Bethany had someone else besides Stroud in command, like Alistair, Oghren, or the Warden, it would be slightly more tolerable. Yes, being a Grey Warden involves sacrifice, but you don't have to suffer alone. Having good allies at your back, fighting the fight, might make it worthwhile. That, and occasionally, giving leave to visit family, go to a bar, etc.

 

All in contrast to Circle Mage Bethany. I'm very surprised that nothing awful happened to her, like, Ser Alrik.

 

To me, I think it should have been reversed: Circle Mage Bethany as miserable, and Grey Warden Bethany adjusting, but finding something in it all. Nevertheless, Circle Mage Bethany can be freed at the end as an apostate once more, so that's usually the choice I go with.

[Jester]

All in contrast to Circle Mage Bethany. I'm very surprised that nothing awful happened to her, like, Ser Alrik.

 

To me, I think it should have been reversed: Circle Mage Bethany as miserable, and Grey Warden Bethany adjusting, but finding something in it all. Nevertheless, Circle Mage Bethany can be freed at the end as an apostate once more, so that's usually the choice I go with.

Ser Alric is as representative to Templars, as Quentin is to mages.

Bethany found a place for herself in the Circle, one she's happy with - unlike living as an apostate. She wants a life of safety and certainty - neither the Wardens, nor the apostate life offer her that.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

I think if Bethany had someone else besides Stroud in command, like Alistair, Oghren, or the Warden, it would be slightly more tolerable. Yes, being a Grey Warden involves sacrifice, but you don't have to suffer alone. Having good allies at your back, fighting the fight, might make it worthwhile. That, and occasionally, giving leave to visit family, go to a bar, etc.

 

Alistair is in command of her if he stays with the Wardens in DA:O and is not killed in battle.

 

Bethany's complaints in her letter involve inextricable parts of the difficulty of being a Warden, not her missions.

 

Anders, who will not shut up about how "terrible" the Circle is, did not find being a Warden good enough in comparison to stay with them either.

[WarriorOfLight999]

And yet at the end of it all in act 3, she says she never understood how free she was.

 

Safety and security under that lunatic Knight Commander Meredith? Under Knight Captain Cullen, who pretty much is PTSD after being tortured by demons in Ferelden? I disagree.

 

EDIT: @HYR A fair point, but Anders was never one to follow orders. He was always fickle, before Justice that is. As for Bethany, that's unfortunate.

[KaiserShep]

Kirkwall's Circle is definitely a mess, but I think that all in all, a Circle-like environment of some sort would probably be most to her liking. I see her favoring an environment of learning where there's little to no combat and she can teach apprentices over life as a monster-hunting soldier.

[Jaison1986]

Many people say they make Bethany an warden because she matures as an person. My opinion however? "Some prices are too high to pay."

 

Circle mage Bethany might be less mature then warden Bethany, but she is also less miserable. And that counts for me. Circle Bethany can start over. She can have an new life. Maybe after Inquisition is over, we can have an chance to help her. But for the wardens, it's an dead end. The misery she is forced to endure with them is something I would never allow.

[thats1evildude]

I made Bethany a Warden in my canon because I like Bethany, and I like my heroes served with a side of survivor's guilt.

 

I didn't want to kill her off, but Circle Bethany didn't provide Hawke enough angst to feed my hunger.