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[sylvanaerie]

Many people say they make Bethany an warden because she matures as an person. My opinion however? "Some prices are too high to pay."

 

Circle mage Bethany might be less mature then warden Bethany, but she is also less miserable. And that counts for me. Circle Bethany can start over. She can have an new life. Maybe after Inquisition is over, we can have an chance to help her. But for the wardens, it's an dead end. The misery she is forced to endure with them is something I would never allow.

 

This. ^^ 

 

I brought Bethany along on Legacy in Act 1 once where I got an eye opening discussion with her about Darkspawn, Malcolm etc.  Her banters down there clearly show Grey Wardening isn't what she wants to do.  Add to the constant fighting, nightmares, taint and other issues with Grey Wardening, is a young woman who never wanted that uncertainty and constant looking over her shoulder.

 

Yes, being in the Circle (especially the hell on Thedas that is Kirkwall's Circle) is horrible.  And she doesn't seem much happier when encountered in Act 2, but she's smart and learns quickly to avoid bad elements like Meredith and Alrik.  She thrives as a teacher/mentor to younger mages (like Ella) and at the end of the game, she's free (unless your Hawke is a complete douchenozzle and allows Meredith to kill her).  There is no taint, and a life that allows her to appreciate the freedom she had known before going to the circle, and a new commitment to helping her fellow mages.

 

In contrast, Carver thrives in the Wardens, finding his place among them and out from under the shadow of the mages in his family, and grows up.

[Magdalena11]

Yeah, I prefer to send her to the circle.  She seems more at peace there.  In banter with Aveline in Act 1, and during Legacy (if she's a circle mage), she talks about how she doesn't want magic or power and just wants to be normal, and if Ella survives and is sent back to the circle, she says maybe "Bethany's right.  Without Ser Alrik, maybe the circle isn't so bad."  Carver needs a chance to prove himself, but Bethany doesn't.  She finds purpose mentoring apprentices (from family letters) and her banter during Legacy as a circle mage shows she's not just caving in to the templars - she doesn't mind being evasive, for instance.

 

But, since you're hardly going to replay everything since you went into the Deep Roads, adjusting how you feel about her might be easier.  Many players like the assertiveness the wardens bring out in Bethany.  She's certainly not a doormat anymore.

[Shahadem]

DA2 sort of dispels the notion that life as a Grey Warden is filled with awesome awesomeness. Think of it more like being a firefighter waiting for a massive wildfire that may never come.

 

Between stints of waiting in the fire house, you occasionally have to run out to put out smaller fires that constantly claim the lives of your fellow firefighters. When you sleep, you never dream of anything but fire. And while firefighters are allowed to have famliies, they do so with the full knowledge that they will have to leave them at a young age.

 

And one day, when you've gotten so scarred from fighting fires, they make you walk into one more fire to be burnt away to ash.

 

Are we talking about Dragon Age or Fahrenheit 451?

[Silfren]

Are we talking about Dragon Age or Fahrenheit 451?

 

Firefighters in Fahrenheit 451 didn't put out fires, they started them. =P

[Ashevajak]

Yep, Beth is more suited for being in the Circle. Just like Carver is much happier as a Warden.

 

This.  I'd say it's a mixture of personality and personal history.  Carver wants and dreams of glory, and not living under the shadow of his siblings.  As a Warden, he has a mission and a purpose, ones which he finds very rewarding.

By contrast, Bethany has spent her entire life living with the possibility she may be taken away and forced into the Circle.  Mentally, she's probably had a lot of time to think about what that would be like, to prepare herself for the possibility that it could occur.  She's around other people who are like her - which there weren't many of in Lothering.  Malcolm was likely the only mage she ever knew before meeting Anders...no doubt she felt something of an outsider or a feeling of isolation growing up, and especially after Malcolm passed.  Plus she is, at the very least, in the same city as her mother and Hawke, whereas in the Wardens she is in Ansburg. 

 

I think Bethany also mentioned in one of her letters that she enjoyed teaching the children in the Circle.  I can definitely sympathise with that - I've stayed in many an oppressive organisation led by out of touch and possibly insane tyrants who brook no dissent because I enjoy teaching.

[Lord Raijin]

Bethany doesn't have to worry about becoming a grey warden or living the life as a circle mage because she always dies on my play through. At least shes reunited with father

[-TC1989-]

As someone who made her into a Grey Warden... I kind of dismissed her bad attitude. I mean in the heat of the moment during the Deep Roads, I was thinking one thing.... it was life or death for her. I didn't really take into account of "what is her life going to be like after, or if she survives the joining?". My only thought was "how do I keep my sister alive?". Whether its the best way, or whatever is irrelevant. After all is said and done you can look back and think of how that choice impacts her, but if you sit on your hands long enough weighing your options, and she dies.... well then how do you feel?

 

Playing Origins, you do feel for her... knowing what her life will be like. I could understand why she basically hated me for most of the game, but I was hoping she would understand I did what I could do, nothing more or less. When I was playing DA2 the first time, I wanted Bethany with me to protect her from the Templars. I didn't want to come back and hear she was hauled off. Ultimately I thought I could protect her if she was with me... but it is what it is. I stand by my decision, and I believe she becomes truly thankful at the end, regardless of what her life means from that point forward.

[Elite Midget]

This. ^^ 

 

I brought Bethany along on Legacy in Act 1 once where I got an eye opening discussion with her about Darkspawn, Malcolm etc.  Her banters down there clearly show Grey Wardening isn't what she wants to do.  Add to the constant fighting, nightmares, taint and other issues with Grey Wardening, is a young woman who never wanted that uncertainty and constant looking over her shoulder.

 

Yes, being in the Circle (especially the hell on Thedas that is Kirkwall's Circle) is horrible.  And she doesn't seem much happier when encountered in Act 2, but she's smart and learns quickly to avoid bad elements like Meredith and Alrik.  She thrives as a teacher/mentor to younger mages (like Ella) and at the end of the game, she's free (unless your Hawke is a complete douchenozzle and allows Meredith to kill her).  There is no taint, and a life that allows her to appreciate the freedom she had known before going to the circle, and a new commitment to helping her fellow mages.

 

In contrast, Carver thrives in the Wardens, finding his place among them and out from under the shadow of the mages in his family, and grows up.

She isn't free, she's an Apostate that's being hunted even if Hawke doesn't have her killed.

 

The Grey Wardens can offer her protection, while the only protection she has as a runaway Apostate is other Apostates. 

[sylvanaerie]

She isn't free, she's an Apostate that's being hunted even if Hawke doesn't have her killed.

 

The Grey Wardens can offer her protection, while the only protection she has as a runaway Apostate is other Apostates. 

 

Now, it would kind of depend on your definition of "Freedom" wouldn't it?  Is being a warden truly free or have you just slipped the collar and leash of a new master (the taint) around your neck?

 

Anders learned all about Grey Warden 'protection' didn't he?  Being a warden isn't a 'get out of the Circle free card', it just means you are less harassed by the templars who follow the rules.  And those templars hunting down mages now aren't exactly following the rules?  Even as a Grey Warden, my warden was still looked on as a mage, something the dialogue pointed out again and again.

 

She has more freedom as an apostate than she does as a Grey Warden, who is sworn to fight darkspawn--to which the joining bonds her--till the day they die.  Stroud will even say he's doing her no favors bringing her into the Wardens, though he will do it for another fighter.  Duncan will say the same about Soris--and won't take him--who faces imprisonment in Denerim for his role in the raid on the Arl's estate.

 

Nor is she 'free' in that she's permanently tainted.  Which means a young death, darkspawn attracted to her, nightmares (which increase during a Blight), gradual deterioration of your body and mind (ala Larius) till you either go mad or die during your Calling, no chance at a normal life--or even a pretense of one--something Bethany very much wanted.

 

Yea, being a Grey Warden is an E ticket attraction at Disney World.   

 

While I roleplayed that eventually my wardens came to appreciate the Joining and the fellowship it brought with Alistair, only 2 of my Wardens actually wanted it from the beginning, and both were dwarves who had no options in Orzammar thanks to 1) being Casteless and 2) Orzammar politics.

 

Being a mage, Bethany had few options.  None of which leads to freedom.  Whether apostate, Grey Warden or Circle mage, she will always be looking over her shoulder for the next enemy.  But at least she has the chance of freedom as an apostate.