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Approval System(?)


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#1
teh DRUMPf!!

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 Any details on how this thing is gonna work?

 

 

 

I've seen "[NPC] approves" and "[NPC] disapproves" pop up on the screen, which is fine, I just hope they have not gone completely back to the DA:O system where disapproving companions simply hate you and threaten to leave (and then do). You cannot build meaningful relationships with characters if you have to suck up to be their friends. I liked that DA2 companions agreed to disagree until you got to an event like Demands of the Qun or The Last Straw where their beliefs/circumstances made it impossible.



#2
Birdy

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The changed it up this time around.  Apparently you don't have to like DAO and DA2


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#3
Hair Serious Business

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Your companions in here will leave you if you make choices that will affect them later on...this is just wild guess but for example let's just say you do something to Hawke that is not nice for example kill him/her then Varric gets angry with you because you hurt his friend and then he leaves you.

But as I said this is just wild guess that serves as example of how will it work.



#4
Birdy

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Might put that under a spoiler.  Not everyone knows about that or wants to.



#5
SnipedArm

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Speaking of approval i wish a mod would approve me posting comments here...



#6
Yuoaman

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I imagine companions will tolerate comments and actions they disapprove of to a point. Like if you start straight up executing mages Dorian might be disgusted and walk out. But that's a very extreme situation. What we don't have this time is an actual numerical value or bar to see where we stand with characters, you'll have to pay far more attention to how the character reacts to you to gauge where you stand with them.

 

At least that's how I understand it, feel free to correct me.



#7
Hair Serious Business

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Might put that under a spoiler.  Not everyone knows about that or wants to.

 

This is "Scuttlebutt(Spoiler)" section which means this is really wrong thread section to read for everyone that wishes no spoilers.

Besides I didn't spoil anything...these were pure wild guesses as I said  ;) I have no idea what Hawke's role will be at all nor what we can or can't do to him/her.


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#8
Birdy

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Uhuh



#9
Decepticon Leader Sully

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Su approves +10


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#10
Poisd2Strike

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I remember hearing somewhere that Companions could approve / disapprove even if they heard about something "second hand", meaning they are not actually physically with your Inquisitor when you make a decision.  If this is true, I don't like it.  In DAO and DA2, I preferred to keep certain Companions out of the active party if I knew (before-hand) that they would object to a decision I was about to make.  As an example, I made sure a certain character was not in my party before doing one of the quests in DAO...

 

Spoiler
 



#11
Taleroth

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Su approves +10

Taleroth is ambivalent +10
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#12
fizzypop

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I would like to know about this too. I didn't really like DA2 system, but I'd prefer that over having to baby my characters. I shouldn't have to always agree with my companions just to have them help/be friends. But for big decisions I can see that being a sticking point. I just don't want to be like "**** the maker and the chantry" and Cassie always being like disapproves -10000. Like Cass I don't even like you, you called me a murderer **** you.



#13
Decepticon Leader Sully

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Taleroth is ambivalent +10

su is drunk ~ ¥



#14
SofaJockey

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This is "Scuttlebutt(Spoiler)" section which means this is really wrong thread section to read for everyone that wishes no spoilers.

Besides I didn't spoil anything...these were pure wild guesses as I said  ;) I have no idea what Hawke's role will be at all nor what we can or can't do to him/her.

 

[Slightly approves]...



#15
Cantina

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The new system is downright confusing.

 

When it pops up and says, "(Name) approves." Great! How much do they approve? A point? Five? Ten? Twenty!?!

 

Same thing can be said about the "(Name) slightly approves." Again how much!?!

 

 

While there many be no direct numbers to tell you how they approve or disapprove. My main peeve is there being no darn meter telling you what type of relationship you have with a companion.

 

How am I suppose to work towards being friends or enemies with someone if I have no idea what type of relationship we have currently?

 

 

That's like me walking up to someone who I have been acquainted with for sometime and asking....

 

"Are we friends?" 

 

Person remains silent.

 

"Are we enemies?

 

Person remains silent.

 

 

Ugh!


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#16
cardinalally

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I remember hearing somewhere that Companions could approve / disapprove even if they heard about something "second hand", meaning they are not actually physically with your Inquisitor when you make a decision.  If this is true, I don't like it.  In DAO and DA2, I preferred to keep certain Companions out of the active party if I knew (before-hand) that they would object to a decision I was about to make.  As an example, I made sure a certain character was not in my party before doing one of the quests in DAO...

 

Spoiler
 

 

If I'm remembering things correctly they will only respond to second hand news that is word altering kind of thing.  So the little decisions they will probably not know about, but if it is something that is big enough that they would hear about it at Skyhold/Haven then they might disprove or approve.  If they do this than I hope the companion will talk to you about it, ask why you did it kind of thing.  

 

Spoiler

 

If this is the way it is handled I actually think this is more realistic.  If it is big enough to be talked about then the companions will still hear of it and will have opinions of it.



#17
Taleroth

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The new system is downright confusing.
 
When it pops up and says, "(Name) approves." Great! How much do they approve? A point? Five? Ten? Twenty!?!
 
Same thing can be said about the "(Name) slightly approves." Again how much!?!
 
 
While there many be no direct numbers to tell you how they approve or disapprove. My main peeve is there being no darn meter telling you what type of relationship you have with a companion.
 
How am I suppose to work towards being friends or enemies with someone if I have no idea what type of relationship we have currently?
 
 
That's like me walking up to someone who I have been acquainted with for sometime and asking....
 
"Are we friends?" 
 
Person remains silent.
 
"Are we enemies?
 
Person remains silent.
 
 
Ugh!


Shouldn't you know without asking?

I can assure you about your real friends that your relationship is not based on a game of tug-of-war played by choosing the right words.
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#18
Chernaya

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I don't think I'll really mind it, I don't need numbers. I've seen slightly, normal, and greatly approve/disapproves and that will be enough for me. I didn't like obsessing over those approval sliders much. It will help me play the game how I want to instead of being tempted to check on a slider and meta game. 



#19
Lee80

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I loathe the choice to not have friendship bars anymore.  Terrible idea in my opinion.  The friendships are not more realistic now, just harder to manage.  


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#20
Yuoaman

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You could always have like a piece of paper handy and add ticks next to characters names as you get the approval messages. One tick for "slightly" and two for just "approves" to get a general sense of where you stand with one character in comparison with others.


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#21
Lee80

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That's really pointless and would kill trees for no real advantage to me.  If you are going to insist on a points system (that makes the friendships unrealistic, not the bar), then there should be a very easy to understand tracking system like the friendship bar.  



#22
nightwolf667

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You could always have like a piece of paper handy and add ticks next to characters names as you get the approval messages. One tick for "slightly" and two for just "approves" to get a general sense of where you stand with one character in comparison with others.

 

I usually keep an spreadsheet handy when I play Neverwinter Nights 2 (as it doesn't have a bar either), it's helpful for a quick check. I'll probably end up doing that with this game. It's probably a 100 point scale like it was in the last two games with minor and major being anywhere between +1 to +5, or +10 to +25. With my recent shoulder impingement and minor onset of carpal tunnel, I don't have the ability to sit and play for 25 hours straight the way I used to and with 9 characters ongoing that's a lot of data to keep track of on top of everything else. The bars were a nice spot check for progress without having to dig out the journal or run around and talk to everyone, exhaust all the dialogue options, or end up 80 hours in with someone stabbing me in the back.

 

While having Isabella in my party isn't a chore, I do have to build my party around her for the first two acts of Dragon Age II to make sure I get the required influence to keep her from running off (not that I blame her). That would be a nightmare without a bar. There are critical moments like that in both games where you need to be at point X with a companion in order for B to occur. This can even be after you've done their personal quests and in a game like Origins that's a hundred hours long it can be hard to keep track of it, especially if the indicators are subtle. Like Zevran, are we the kind of friends who are friendly friends? Or is it, yes but not friendly enough for you not to try to kill me when your old bosses come knocking? Sometimes, even with his dialogue options he's not at the point to say: I would die for you if necessary but let's send Alistair in first, yes?

 

The problem with the system is that it relies on the characters and the surrounding narrative be able to communicate it when it happens clearly enough for the audience to pick up on it. It's like the rivalry system, most players assumed rivalry was negative or punishment instead of just disagreement because that's how it was in Origins. The rivalry has since been nixed, but players who got used to the system still wonder if it's happening or not happening. It's really unnecessary to hide the math and really just irritating overall.


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#23
Chernaya

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I'm kinda hoping there aren't as many scenes that require a certain amount of approval that you could miss if you weren't always checking like there were in DA2. :/ That's kinda why I disliked that system, because I felt like I was paying too much attention to that and changing around stuff even if I didn't want to instead of just enjoying the game as a whole. But if it is like that, it would indeed be pretty annoying not knowing if you're missing something. I can probably pretty easily tell if I'm racking up a lot of disapproval from someone and note that, but otherwise if I didn't make x approval by y time and missed out on a scene I would be disappointed. 



#24
Jouni S

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The lack of means to quickly check NPC approval is bad game design. If I return to a game after a having a break for a month or two, I expect to be able to find all important information ingame. If that's not possible, it's a design failure.

If the designers don't like numbers, they can use words. If they don't like players reverse-engineering the numbers from the words, they can add a random bias to the perceived approval, and change the bias occasionally. It's not rocket science, just elementary game design.

#25
Bekkael

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This is one of the many reasons I will meta the crap out of this game, with my trusty game guide by my side. No way am I flying blind where companions are concerned.


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