Dragon Age II is the exception here and a good portion of people hated it so BioWare has gone back to gather x and defeat the big bad.... and people still complain about it? *sigh*
I don't think most people hated DA2 merely for its different direction in story. DA2 was simply a poorly crafted game where your choices don't seem to have a severe impact.
ME2 had superb story with amazing characters and absolutely epic ending which was open enough for the next game in the series.
Well, here we need to distinguish between 'story' and 'plot'. If you count 'story' as the entirety of everything that you experience during the game, then ME 2 had a great story. The plot, however, - that is to say only the main story about the Collectors - was basically non-existent.
So it would be better to say that ME 2 was a great story that had a shitty plot.
BG2 and JE say hello.
I swear people forget those two games....
Not forgetting them, I just think those games came out too long ago to take them as a basis for what to expect from Bioware stories now.
You must be kidding....
ME2 had superb story with amazing characters and absolutely epic ending which was open enough for the next game in the series.
BTW Cliffhanger again? wtf...
it's not green\blue\red\ALTF4WTF again from me 3 right ?
Because the main plot tends not to be so impressive in Bioware games but rather the moments in between and the characters.
You must be kidding....
ME2 had superb story with amazing characters and absolutely epic ending which was open enough for the next game in the series.
BTW Cliffhanger again? wtf...
it's not green\blue\red\ALTF4WTF again from me 3 right ?
The final mission in ME2 is a series hallmark. The ending itself is the least satisfying in the trilogy.
Yes, I realize I'm probably alone in that opinion. What I mean though is that it's just so short and mostly Shepard telling off The Illusive Man. I'm of course aware that only ME3 really needed a fair bit more, ultimately. I'm also aware it fell short. But I come from a school of thought that even in trilogies each denouement ought to be a little stronger than what the first two Mass Effect games provided, especially 2.
you need to inhale the entire experience.
ME2 was awesome fun and the a-team mission at the end was epic.
About DA:I, due to the options in the DA:Keep I expect many plot branches to get some love and some of them closure.
So it would be better to say that ME 2 was a great story that had a shitty plot.
The same could be said for Origins.
I have a hard time taking people that say that ME3 in general was a bad game seriously to be honest.
Forget its horrible ending for a sec , i can't think of a single main mission that was badly written or wasn't fun.
Mars mission
Getting Eve out of Surkesh.
Tunchanka - getting shot at by a reaper then watch a tresher maw destroy the reaper and mordin dying as he cures the genophage
Rannoch - choosing between quarians and geth or uniting them
Citadel mission - killing Udina and thane dying in heroic fashion
Thessia - hearing the Asaries get annihilated by the reapers on comm while you simply cannot do anything to help them
These are just a few but very emotional moments of ME3 and there are more , so yes saying ME3 is bad is just not knowing what you are talking about , the ending DOES suck but the game in general is great.
Well, here we need to distinguish between 'story' and 'plot'. If you count 'story' as the entirety of everything that you experience during the game, then ME 2 had a great story. The plot, however, - that is to say only the main story about the Collectors - was basically non-existent.
So it would be better to say that ME 2 was a great story that had a shitty plot.
How was ME2 actually different from BG2 in this regard? Hell, most of what you're doing in DA:O has nothing much to do with the Blight -- you get an army at the end of the main quests, sure, but at the end of an ME2 mission you get a new squadmate or an improved squadmate. KotOR too, since what you do to get the map pieces generally has little or nothing to do with the Sith
How was ME2 actually different from BG2 in this regard? Hell, most of what you're doing in DA:O has nothing much to do with the Blight -- you get an army at the end of the main quests, sure, but at the end of an ME2 mission you get a new squadmate or an improved squadmate. KotOR too, since what you do to get the map pieces generally has little or nothing to do with the Sith
Well, they all had lengthy parts where you did things that had little to do with the main story, true, but the proportions are entirely different for KotOR and especially BG 2. And of course it's not just about the length, it's about what the plot actually is, which was interesting for BG 2 overall and interesting in at least one regard for KotOR.
You are right about DA:O, though. That game is just like ME 2.
you need to inhale the entire experience.
That moment when people conveniently forget to do this and blast the entirety of ME3 for the potentially "unsatisfying" ending.
As far as "entire" experiences go, ME3 kicks its predecessor into the horizon. Well... in my opinion at least.
Guest_Raga_*
Another way of looking at it is that Bioware is a master of the short story, but not the novel. The big plot is usually rather irrelevant and the thing that makes their games good are all the little individual stories you encounter along the way.
Thing is you inhale ME3 (before dlcs and extended ending dlc) and u get choked :X
Thing is you inhale ME3 (before dlcs and extended ending dlc) and u get choked :X
I suppose 
Guest_Raga_*
That moment when people conveniently forget to do this and blast the entirety of ME3 for the potentially "unsatisfying" ending.
As far as "entire" experiences go, ME3 kicks its predecessor into the horizon. Well... in my opinion at least.
Another equally bad issue with ME3 was its large use of autodialog. These two things become alarming because they directly impact the #1 thing that makes Bioware games good: interacting with characters. Autodialog commandeers my ability to really interact with my squadmates. Instead of interacting, I'm just watching interaction. The ending is a problem because it basically spelled in big glowing letters "oh, those squadmates you love?They don't matter at all so you shouldn't care what happened to them. All that matters is *plot.*"
ME2 meanwhile is literally all about characters. The whole point of the game is collecting and meeting new characters.
If Bioware has dropped plot focus to go back to character focus, it's only a good thing in my book.
*Edit* This is precisely why the Citadel DLC happened. Bioware realized that people really don't care that much about the plot. What they want is character resolution.
It would be so nice to see a new Jade Empire game with this frostbite engine... if that is possible...
Polygon has an article entitled "Dragon Age: Inquisition’s greatest achievement is its writing."
http://www.polygon.c...-is-its-writing
If the plot in this game is good, it'll be the first since ME1 and Origins. Characters shouldn't be carrying the story.
If the plot in this game is good, it'll be the first since ME1 and Origins. Characters shouldn't be carrying the story.
If the plot in this game is good, it'll be the first since ME1 and Origins. Characters shouldn't be carrying the story.
Did the characters not "carry the story" in Hemingway's 'The Sun Also Rises?' I mean the story in that book is, impotent man cannot screw his true love, he and his other friends take out their problems on their Jewish friend. They all drink without remorse, then watch bullfights, drink, fish in Spain, drink... Lady Brett screws a handsome matador. Lady Brett Ashley and Jake Barnes go for a ride in a Taxi. The End. XD Lol
And still it is one of my favorite modernist novels (considered by many to be Hemingway's best), Joyce’s Ulysses is my all time favorite novel.
Unless the author is only focusing on one main character, then the characters do carry the plot. If you are going to have a host of characters, they all need to be of some importance for the reader to care about. Not necessarily like, but care about, care about to hate, care about to love, care about to be curious, etc.
Without characters, there is no plot, the characters make the plot. The plus side with BioWare games is that the characters are usually pretty cool that they get a lot of attention to the point that the plot seems overshadowed, but that is not poor writing, that is great writing.
A story where the characters carry the plot is better than a plot that has to carry the characters.
@slimgrin
Here is a challenge for you, try to write a story without characters. Check and see if what you have written even resembles a 'story'. 
Guest_Raga_*
The only kinds of stories where plot usually does and arguably should supersede characters are suspense stories and mysteries, neither of which Bioware makes. *Themes* can supersede characters in anything, but theme and plot aren't the same thing.
BG2 and JE say hello.
I swear people forget those two games....
Retour en haut
