410 réponses à ce sujet

[Dermain]

I love that you keep it open to the community, in a sense.

 

Basically, the DA modding community is going to have to get into contact with some of the modders for Battlefield 3 in order to figure out if there's something that can be done.

 

Then again, they may only be able to edit textures which may (not?) be helpful.

 

 

Then that proves my point. 

 

Mass Effect ran very well because of extreme use of LODs and cull distances, as well as med/low res textures combined with med/low poly assets. Not inherently due to the Unreal Engine. Bioware struck a balance between quality and performance, a poorly built pc could run the mass effect series because of it, a moderate rig would run it smooth as silk. It's why ME2/3 have little to no graphics options on pc. They took a one size fits most all approach. 

 

DA on the other hand, I've never ran into any issues with any of their games. Some gamers (though they won't admit it) probably don't have rigs capable of handling modern/next gen games on max settings. So if anything, perhaps a lack of performance in DA was more of an indication that your hardware was inadequate, which lowering the settings should have addressed to a degree. 

 

 

I can almost guarantee that, but they'll still try to run the game at Ultra settings then complain about not being able to run the game at that.

[Nzero]

Do we know exactly how stable Denuvo really is? It's done by Sony DADC, the same company who did SecuROM, and SecuROM had a bunch of issues. It wouldn't uninstall itself even if you uninstalled the game and it would not let you run a game if certain legimate networking settings were enabled in Windows Vista.

 

Even if there are no performance hits (unlikely considering the mechanism used by Dunuvo), I'm still unconvinced that Dunuvo doesn't have a number of software bugs/edge cases.

 

I'm a bit torn by this, but I'm a big enough fan of DA:I that I won't cancel my pre-order.

[Lumix19]

Do we know exactly how stable Denuvo really is? It's done by Sony DADC, the same company who did SecuROM, and SecuROM had a bunch of issues. It wouldn't uninstall itself even if you uninstalled the game and it would not let you run a game if certain legimate networking settings were enabled in Windows Vista.

 

Even if there are no performance hits (unlikely considering the mechanism used by Dunuvo), I'm still unconvinced that Dunuvo doesn't have a number of software bugs/edge cases.

 

I'm a bit torn by this, but I'm a big enough fan of DA:I that I won't cancel my pre-order.

*Sigh* Really there's no information I've seen that says anything about the stability of Denuvo. So all I can assume is that Denuvo is completely stable and doesn't affect performance at all. If SecuROM really scares you then buy DAI for another platform (or not at all) but otherwise I'd give them the benefit of the doubt. I sincerely doubt Sony DADC would make the same mistake twice.

[Lebanese Dude]

Just because a dev says so it's not a DRM then it's not? So if dev say DA2 is best game ever then it is the best game EVAR? It probably is for him but it may not for others. If you are protecting certain files to be tempered it is DRM to me.

 

WHAT?! Are you serious?
 

Denuvo is not a DRM = objective fact. It's not a DRM it's an anti-tamper program that complements an existing DRM.

DA2 is the best game ever = subjective opinion. Some people like it; others hate it. Nothing to say here.

 

You can't tell the difference between a fact and an opinion? Get a grip.

[Lumix19]

WHAT?! Are you serious?
 

Denuvo is not a DRM = objective fact. It's not a DRM it's an anti-tamper program that complements an existing DRM.

DA2 is the best game ever = subjective opinion. Some people like it; others hate it. Nothing to say here.

 

You can't tell the difference between a fact and an opinion? 

Thank you, that's exactly what I was thinking.

[Jaron Oberyn]

WHAT?! Are you serious?
 

Denuvo is not a DRM = objective fact. It's not a DRM it's an anti-tamper program that complements an existing DRM.

DA2 is the best game ever = subjective opinion. Some people like it; others hate it. Nothing to say here.

 

You can't tell the difference between a fact and an opinion? Get a grip.

 

This has been said multiple times throughout this thread. Really no point in repeating it at this point, people are just content with complaining even when they know they are wrong. It is best to leave them to their own devices, otherwise you'll find yourself pointlessly going back and forth on the exact same issue all night. Levelheaded people will read this thread and have their minds put at ease, as for the others they will continue to yell that the sky is falling. 

[BadgerladDK]

I was going to pirate the game just to see how it runs on my old gaming rig. I was going to buy it because I'm almost sure that the game will run smoothly here at least on medium. But I won't buy it unless I know for sure. I've DA:O and all ME games on Origin. I'm a huge Bioware fan. 

 

 

I'm really not interested in buying it for my PS3 and now there is now way to know how my computer will handle the game. I don't want to buy it to play it at 20fps. 

 

Actually, if you buy it off Origin you can use their Great Game Guarantee program and get a refund within the first 24 hours if the game doesn't work on your computer, so that I wouldn't worry about.

[Dutchess]

If nothing about the executable can be changed, does that mean console commands are also no longer possible?

[BadgerladDK]

 

 

 

A similar rhetoric always appears across the forums of any game that includes DRM, most specifically SecuROM and Denuvo, I.E. DRM developed by SDADC, or, Sony Digital Audio Disc Corporation.

While SecuROM and Denuvo are two prime examples of the new approach to DRM (The old being CD-Keys, Etc); there are other, harder to recognize/more niche forms, typically masquerading as services offered for Player Convenience:

 

Origin,

UPlay,

Games For Windows - Live,

Xbox Live,

Playstation Plus,

Steam,

Pre-order bonus content,

 

These are all forms of DRM or Content Control, each of these have extensive means of detecting prohibited activity and bricking, banning or otherwise shafting players who break the rules laid out for products that they've already paid money for, most of which while charging additional fees for use or at least having options for the consumer to pay additional money for "perks" on that particular platform.

 

 

Not all of the platforms mentioned include DRM that actually nests inside your gaming device, but that isn't always needed given the fact that the platform itself IS the tool for Digital Rights Management.

 

These platforms all work to ensure that you play by their rules, some more strenuously than others and I'm not going to name names , but the measures these platforms can take range from a simple warning, all the way up to your account being permanently disabled, even for minor violations in some cases.

 

Controlling Digital Rights is, not surprisingly, a lot easier for a Digital Platform.

 

 

 

 

It isn't DRM, it's Content Control and Sales Insurance; Selling as many units as possible BEFORE the pirates can fire their cannons is the ONLY goal of DRM and buffing up Pre-orders..

 

This is why we have to put up with it, people will buy the game/product regardless of DRM if the companies can get them excited/invested enough.

 

DRM like Denuvo and SecuROM have/had ONE singular purposes, and that is driving up early sales. They are not at all intended, nor will they ever be intended/expected to keep a game from being Pirated. They are there to keep the game protected just long enough to reach sales projections.

 

The fact of the matter is that Publishers have infinitely more say than they should. They get rich riding on the backs of other, harder working, more talented people because if those people refuse to carry them, well, then their product isn't going to reach very many homes. Very, very much like the Bankers of the world.

 

As to why the paying customer has to put up with it, well, that's very simple.

Because you will, and they know it.

 

The only way to kill DRM is to stop buying your favorite games and be vocal about why. The only language a corporation understands is Money, and that will never change. If a big corporation is in control, everything about a Video Game, Movie or any other form of Media is about bringing in revenue and has nothing to do with you getting enjoyment out of the game, a good value or having a smooth experience, nor does it have to do with creating a brilliant piece of art.

 

Dragon Age II fell short because of corporate greed, plain and simple. The gaming Industry itself almost never was because of Corporate greed (E.T. The Extra terrestrial for the Atari 2600)

 

 

You kinda screwed up your quoting there. I only said the last thing you quoted...

[Ajna]

Well that's 40 mins of my life I'll never get back...

[CIA]

Did this actually negatively affect LOTF/Fifa 15? From what I heard those games ran fine

[DooomCookie]

If nothing about the executable can be changed, does that mean console commands are also no longer possible?

 

No, I think console commands would still be possible.  I'd think it would just protect against people digging into the meat of file.  Additionally, I think I've heard somewhere that there are still console commands, just not very many?  If someone could verify that I'd be grateful.

[Dermain]

Did this actually negatively affect LOTF/Fifa 15? From what I heard those games ran fine

 

Lords of the Fallen is poorly optimized across all systems so blame can not be placed there. Unless of course you believe the developer trying to explain away his poorly optimized game.

 

No idea on FIFA 15 since I can't stand sports games.

[brazen_nl]

Basically, the DA modding community is going to have to get into contact with some of the modders for Battlefield 3 in order to figure out if there's something that can be done.

 

I sure hope they'll get something, as it really determines the longevity of the game!

[Tsunami Chef]

How many will avoid a game that has a draconian drm? How many will ask for a refund due to a draconian drm?

 

Is the money spent on drm worth one week, maybe more?

 

This has no defence.

Almost no one? I don't think people who read gaming/pc forums all day realize how little the average gaming fan cares about "oh this game has drm", "Oh this game has first day dlc". The percentage of people whoa re not going to buy DAI over DRM is miniscule at most.

[SSJ5]

The DRM almost certainly has an impact on how fast your game starts up. But the total effect on the preformance of the game depends on how the DRM software is structured. This can easily be tested and a process that's related to the DRM could be identified. So if we don't have any concrete evidence that such a process exists, its safe to assume that Denuvo isn't actually causing any preformance issues, or that they are negligible. Now, the ethics of using the DRM are a whole another can of worms. It impedes modding, it can be invasive, it can create exploits and backdoors that malicious software can misuse ...

[LexXxich]

Call it DRM or not, it's a low level process (it has to be, otherwise it'll be easy prey to debuggers) that makes some unholy scrambling magic to game's executable. So it by definition uses up CPU time, RAM space and is liable to bring access violations and driver conflicts, precisely because it has to work at kernel level.

[Glaso]

To be clear, Denuvo is not DRM in the sense the DRM stands for Digital Rights Management (or Dogs Reading Magazines, or whatever you prefer). There is nothing in the Denuvo stuff that has to do with accounts or release date checking, or ownership or anything like that. It is not SecuROM. It is not Steamworks. It is not Safedisc, or any of the other DRM solutions that have been in the past. Origin is the DRM for Dragon Age: Inquisition in the exact same manner and settings as it was in Mass Effect 3. Nothing has changed here.

 

Denuvo is anti-tamper on the executable. This has nothing to do with mods or attempts to change textures or anything like that. Trying to hack the executable to cheat in multiplayer? This is what we are talking about.

 

We don't give a damn about what it is, is it made by the same people responsible for sony rootkit/securom? If so we don't want that shitware on our rigs, it's as simple as that. You do know there are other widely accepted anti cheat solutions out there, righ?

 

 

Did you never play a game with Starforce or Securom or horrible Sony Rootkit (which led to malware, see: http://en.wikipedia....rootkit_scandal )

 

With things like Starforce/Securom you'd have limited installs, if you changed hardware often enough (I build my own pc's so that wasn't hard) you'd have to call up and get more activations, meanwhile the pirates? They never had to jump through these hoops.

 

Then you had the performance issues, lots of people who legit had the game and it wouldn't work and would get stuck on asking themt o put in a cd (Even if it was in), this happened to me more then once on different games that used it.

You know what I found hilarious? Because of these issues I actually HAD to resort to using NOCD cracks to play many legitimate games I bought, then you know what? No more cd checks, no more performance issues related to it, by using DRM it actually forced me to go down a legally "Gray" area when it comes to using these sorts of things, and no paying customer should have to do that.

 

The people who legit pay for a game should NOT have to go through this kind of thing to simply play a game they paid for.

 

I really hope this DRM doesn't affect DA:I much, but I Really would like to not have it at all and just have it rely on Origin like many past EA games did before this crap.

 

I remember buying splinter cell chaos theory a while ago and that thing refused to launch because its ani piracy solution was not designed for x64 based OS....

 

 

I'm pretty sure Asscreed's issues had nothing to do with DRM and everything to do with horrible optimization.

 

It's ubisoft, what did you expect?

Modifié par BioWareMod03, 15 novembre 2014 - 12:26 .
Edited out profanity

[llandwynwyn]

People need to read what other post before replying.

 

Origin and Steam are DRM and are fairly accepted by the public.

 

Things like SecuROM and "always online DRM" - aka draconian DRM - that EA forces on players are the problem.

 

If causes problems to buyers ---> failure

 

And, yes. Some players asked for refund and didn't buy games due to those DRM.

 

One just have to look at SimCity if they want proof. 

 

Money wasted on DRM itself

Bad reputation due to DRM

Money loss on bad reputation

Money loss with refunds

Money lost on "fixing" the game

 

Now, it being called

 

Denuvo Anti-Tamper technology prevents the debugging, reverse engineering and changing of executable files to strengthen the security of games. It is not a DRM solution, but rather, Denuvo Anti-tamper protects DRM solutions, such as Origin Online Access or the Steam license management system, from being circumvented.

 

Means next to nothing to me. DRM's condom, Waka Waka eh eh

 

Calling it by another name doesn't erase concerns for those familiar with SecuROM's shady past.

 

I'd a lot of problems with them  and it made me lose an optical drive.  I don't trust them. At all.

[Glaso]

 

I'd a lot of problems with them  and it made me lose an optical drive.  I don't trust them. At all.

 

Oh gawd lord, that crappy stuff destroyed mine too back in the day when having an optical drive actually mattered. I also had to reinstall my system due to the fact that it was the only viable method to eradicate this stuff and it BSODed every time my anti virus software disagreed with it....

Modifié par BioWareMod03, 15 novembre 2014 - 12:29 .
Edited out Profanity

[Lumix19]

Oh gawd lord, that shitty stuff destroyed mine too back in the day when having an optical drive actually mattered. I also had to reinstall my system due to the fact that it was the only viable method to eradicate this stuff and it BSODed every time my anti virus software disagreed with it....

STOP SWEARING! Profanity is banned by forum rules, please abide by them and edit your posts appropriately.

[Lumix19]

People need to read what other post before replying.

 

Origin and Steam are DRM and are fairly accepted by the public.

 

Things like SecuROM and "always online DRM" - aka draconian DRM - that EA forces on players are the problem.

 

If causes problems to buyers ---> failure

 

And, yes. Some players asked for refund and didn't buy games due to those DRM.

 

One just have to look at SimCity if they want proof. 

 

Money wasted on DRM itself

Bad reputation due to DRM

Money loss on bad reputation

Money loss with refunds

Money lost on "fixing" the game

 

Now, it being called

 

 

 

 

Means next to nothing to me. DRM's condom, Waka Waka eh eh

 

Calling it by another name doesn't erase concerns for those familiar with SecuROM's shady past.

 

I'd a lot of problems with them  and it made me lose an optical drive.  I don't trust them. At all.

This has already been discussed throughout this thread, I don't see the need to perpetuate this argument.

[Kantr]

I think in DA2 I had to modify the .exe file to have console command.

Is this going to be the same in DAI so no console command available , I ask because it wasn't really useful in DA2 but it's something I used a lot in Skyrim to resolve bugged quests.

 

I know the devs team are doing the best they can to resolve /avoid bug and glitch , but it's a really useful and easy to use tool to solve problems .

Modifying the exe won't give you console access. You modify the command line argument http://dragonage.wik...(Dragon_Age_II)on a shortcut to it

[Glaso]

STOP SWEARING! Profanity is banned by forum rules, please abide by them and edit your posts appropriately.

 

Are you a ten year old or something? Is it huwting your feewings? I'm not swearing, it's a goddamn turn of the tongue to add emphasis to the crappiness of sony created drm solutions.

[llandwynwyn]

This has already been discussed throughout this thread, I don't see the need to perpetuate this argument.

 

I'll discuss it again if I want to. Your post adds nothing, also please avoid double posting. Want to police others? Send a pm.

 

Modifying the exe won't give you console access. You modify the command line argument http://dragonage.wik...(Dragon_Age_II)on a shortcut to it

 

This. If people are afraid, right click on the game icon in Origin.