410 réponses à ce sujet

[Kantr]

This is all guess work. We have no idea how it handles and honestly on low systems you are going to get fps drops anyway.

[danielkrs]

@dlux I get what you are saying but 45 average FPS on GTX 980 is definitely not fine, I agree that with drivers performance will improve but who knows by how much. And how would the testers know exactly? It's not like they've been given a chance to play the game with Denuvo and without Denuvo. I hope you are not suggesting we change our CPU's and GPU's to accomodate Denuvo

 

[PromisedPain]

@dlux I get what you are saying but 45 average FPS on GTX 980 is definitely not fine, I agree that with drivers performance will improve but who knows by how much. And how would the testers know exactly? It's not like they've been given a chance to play the game with Denuvo and without Denuvo. I hope you are not suggesting we change our CPU's and GPU's to accomodate Denuvo

 

 

Who knows what the settings will be like? It could be that the game has problems with AA and lowering to 2x will give you constant 60 fps. It's too early to say it's badly optimized, and Nvidia is going to release new drivers anyway.

[dubsaves]

Well, the cracking community is a force to be reckoned with. DRM is necessary, unless of course you release updates every week or two weeks and makes cracking pointless. TBH I've played tons of games and not paid for them.  DAI of course is not one of them.

 

As a consumer if you don't really have the disposable income to spend $60 bucks at the drop off a hat on some game, a piece of entertainment....you really have to decide what games you really want. Playing the cracked game works to the benefit because a lot of times the game is broken on release. After a good month or two some of the major bugs are worked out, so if its worthwhile you fork out the cash for the game. If its a turd, or not what you are looking for...no loss. No money is wasted.

 

Publishers really need to protect their products. If a triple AAA title needs some uber copy protection, then so be it. The other side of the coin is I don't want some torrenter to play the full game without some caveats that I paid full price for (or found a decent sale on!!). If people who don't have a vested interested in Dragon Age want to play Inquisition but don't want to pay Bioware's employees or EA can't play the game because of DRM, great. I want Bioware to be around for awhile and don't mind giving them my money. They get it as developers, that you need to put some heart and soul into a game in order to build a community. Its a huge sacrifice for their employees, who have some passion about the product they are putting out. 

[LEXX]

Let just hope that if DAI makes some good selling they will patch this crap Denuvo out if it does affect the game play.

[Travie]

Let just hope that if DAI makes some good selling they will patch this crap Denuvo out if it does affect the game play.

 

They aren't CDProjekt. If it's **** we're stuck with it forever. 

[AlanC9]

Piracy is not theft either legally or morally. The legal definition of theft is the unlawful subtraction of  a material thing in pretty much every law system I've had to study or work with. Not the same thing.  Nobody loses a thing.  Companies may or may not depending on other factors such as PR, quality of products, loses revenue.  The perfect counter-example to this stance being CD Project but also all the "AAA-independent" crows (often former employees of big companies) Bioware included.
 
The music majors fighting piracy is a perfect example of the same struggle in the past.  They euh... lost.

I don't check you on either the legal or the moral case. The moral one because you didn't really make an argument, the legal one because even if "theft" isn't really the correct word, copyright violations certainly are recognized as crimes.

And saying that piracy can't be stopped isn't relevant. We can't stop drug sales, and maybe we shouldn't try, but that doesn't mean that selling drugs can't be a criminal act.

[dlux]

@dlux I get what you are saying but 45 average FPS on GTX 980 is definitely not fine, I agree that with drivers performance will improve but who knows by how much. And how would the testers know exactly? It's not like they've been given a chance to play the game with Denuvo and without Denuvo.

@danielkrs

4x MSAA is a HUGE performance hog, as are the ultra details. Don't forget that.

Anyway, there is nothing wrong with a 290X beating a GTX 980 in performance, especially in a game that uses the Mantle renderer. For example, A 290X is much faster than a GTX 980 in Ryse.
 

I hope you are not suggesting we change our CPU's and GPU's to accomodate Denuvo

No, i'm saying that you have nothing to worry about.

 

If you are paranoid ("ZOMG Denuvo killz mah Performance!") then buy a Radeon and use the Mantle renderer, which free ups CPU cycles by lowering the amount of draw calls that the CPU must process.

 

[Ray603]

I'm indeed confused. I've pre-ordered the game via Origin, and now I'm hearing it should also use Denuvo...
I was not happy with SecuRom (darn Rootkits)...

I agree that publishers need to protect their games, but for god's sake, haven't we had that discussion years ago with SecuRom or Starforce?
SecuRom denied the launch of some of my games, claiming I should insert the original dvd (which was inserted).
SecuRom babbled I have to remove my virtual DVD drive, even if the original DVD was present.
That'S no piracy protection, that's customer protection.
Strange, that the game ran flawlessly, after using a no-dvd crack.
I'm not letting some bullshit DRM Software force me to uninstall Software I'm using on my PC under no fking circumstance.

So let's hope, that this "Denuvo" DRM is completly REMOVED after uninstalling the game and this "DRM" is not messing with my System or "forcing" me to uninstall software it doesn't like.

[Wulfram]

People should probably be careful about saying something that might be taken as promoting piracy, given the rules of the forum

[Dreamer]

I'm indeed confused. I've pre-ordered the game via Origin, and now I'm hearing it should also use Denuvo...
I was not happy with SecuRom (darn Rootkits)...

I agree that publishers need to protect their games, but for god's sake, haven't we had that discussion years ago with SecuRom or Starforce?
SecuRom denied the launch of some of my games, claiming I should insert the original dvd (which was inserted).
SecuRom babbled I have to remove my virtual DVD drive, even if the original DVD was present.
That'S no piracy protection, that's customer protection.
Strange, that the game ran flawlessly, after using a no-dvd crack.
I'm not letting some bullshit DRM Software force me to uninstall Software I'm using on my PC under no fking circumstance.

So let's hope, that this "Denuvo" DRM is completly REMOVED after uninstalling the game and this "DRM" is not messing with my System or "forcing" me to uninstall software it doesn't like.

 

As has been stated more than once by the developers themselves, Denuvo is not DRM--it's a protection for the DRM (which in this case is Origin); if you attempt to edit or alter the game's executable or try to play the game through an altered executable, Denuvo will stop you. That's it. That's all it does.

[Glaso]

Fifa 15 has Denuvo and it does perfectly fine and as a bonus it isn't cracked yet. I think since EA has experience with this drm and they successfully pulled it off with Fifa 15 there should be no problem. 

 

Fifa 15 is a 10 years old game with a new paintjob every year, a toaster would be able to run it on ultra.

[Warlock]

It might use CPU cycles, but it doesn't necessarily mean that the it will harm performance. Running the game in GPU limit (which you of course will) actually frees up CPU cycles, not to mention that a modern game engine like Frostbite 3 is multi-threaded. AMD's Mantle render also relieves the CPU of work, because substantially less draw calls have to be processed by the CPU.
 
If you are using a modern CPU the performance impact of Denuvo is practically negligable and possibly only even measurable. If you are still worried that Denuvo might hurt performance by hogging CPU cycles, then use an AMD graphics card and the Mantle renderer. With Mantle you can even underclock the CPU (= less CPU cycles are available) and the game will still run perfectly fine without any performance hit.

 

That's actually exactly the point I was trying to get across. You worded it differently and dived deeper into it, but it was the same. I'm saying this because in your reply you sounded like you thought I said that Denuvo would hamper performance noticeably, when I was saying the complete opposite. So, just to clear things up

[ViSeiRa]

I'm indeed confused. I've pre-ordered the game via Origin, and now I'm hearing it should also use Denuvo...
I was not happy with SecuRom (darn Rootkits)...

I agree that publishers need to protect their games, but for god's sake, haven't we had that discussion years ago with SecuRom or Starforce?
SecuRom denied the launch of some of my games, claiming I should insert the original dvd (which was inserted).
SecuRom babbled I have to remove my virtual DVD drive, even if the original DVD was present.
That'S no piracy protection, that's customer protection.
Strange, that the game ran flawlessly, after using a no-dvd crack.
I'm not letting some bullshit DRM Software force me to uninstall Software I'm using on my PC under no fking circumstance.

So let's hope, that this "Denuvo" DRM is completly REMOVED after uninstalling the game and this "DRM" is not messing with my System or "forcing" me to uninstall software it doesn't like.

 

It's not removed completely after uninstalling if The Sims 4 is anything to go by. 

 

What's visible is that it leaves behind some registry entries (no idea what they do yet).. but The Sims 4 was cracked after release so don't know how effective that anti-tamper system really is.

[dlux]

I'm indeed confused. I've pre-ordered the game via Origin, and now I'm hearing it should also use Denuvo...
I was not happy with SecuRom (darn Rootkits)...

I agree that publishers need to protect their games, but for god's sake, haven't we had that discussion years ago with SecuRom or Starforce?
SecuRom denied the launch of some of my games, claiming I should insert the original dvd (which was inserted).
SecuRom babbled I have to remove my virtual DVD drive, even if the original DVD was present.
That'S no piracy protection, that's customer protection.
Strange, that the game ran flawlessly, after using a no-dvd crack.
I'm not letting some bullshit DRM Software force me to uninstall Software I'm using on my PC under no fking circumstance.

So let's hope, that this "Denuvo" DRM is completly REMOVED after uninstalling the game and this "DRM" is not messing with my System or "forcing" me to uninstall software it doesn't like.

Denuvo doesn't install any rootkits or low level drivers like Starforce, Securom, Tages, etc.

Denuvo doesn't care if you have virtual CD software either, because Origin doesn't care if the game disc is in the drive or not.

Denuvo only prevents tampering with the Origin DRM, nothing else.

[pdusen]

Denuvo doesn't install any rootkits or low level drivers like Starforce, Securom, Tages, etc.

Denuvo doesn't care if you have virtual CD software either, because Origin doesn't care if the game disc is in the drive or not.

Denuvo only prevents tampering with the Origin DRM, nothing else.

 

I really don't understand why this thread hasn't been locked yet. It ceased to be rational or informative by page 2.

[affliction]

Lol so many people worrying over nothing

[Gothfather]

I think most of this thread is irrelevant.

 

Its irrelevant if you call Denuvo DRM or an anti-tamper device. The fact is it is used to slow piracy down reardless of what its called or not called.

 

Its irrelevant if arguing about piracy being inevitable and you can't stop it. The fact is crime is inevitable but that doesn't stop individuals from trying to limit being a victum of crime, why shouldn't companies also try to limit being a victum of crime?

 

Its irrelevant to argue if a 1 to 5% cpu hit is too much or insignificant for denuvo. You have four choices, buy the game ans suck it up, Don't buy the game and don't pirate, pirate the game, or buy the game and pirate the game. QQ that the product is here in the game is pointless as companies will always strive for way to combat loss of revenue inevitable loss or not. You can talk about refusing to buy a game but its been my experience that Americans especially but people in the first world generally are very bad at refusing to engage in a luxury they enjoy. I refuse to shop at wallmart but wallmart is still a hugely successful business because people rarely deprive themselves of something to punish someone else.

 

Its irrelevant to argue about most issues of piracy on the forum of a developer because all its does it polarize people. It makes some people jump to the conclusion that if you dislike DRM/anti-tamper devices you are a pirate. I don't like steam because of its autoupdate feature that while can be disabled it ALWAYS seems to be reset to enabled after every steam patch (auto updates for moddable games is a nightmare), i come of a developer forum and complain about steam and i am automatically a pirate. I take the position that i am okay with x form of DRM and I am automatically view as a stooge or uninformed.  This completely derails the discussion and people just take snipes back and forth.

 

The only relevant issue is subjective, ergo it has a multitude of "right" answers. Do the current drm/anti-tamper measures in DA:I cross the line for you on a personal level? If they don't then you can ignore it and play the game. If they do you have to make a choice to either suck it up or not to buy because NOTHING you do will get BioWare of EA to change the situation for DA:I.

[Travie]

As always, stuff like this is like punching your paying customer in the face to spite the pirates. They won't feel it, but we will. 

[SilentCid]

I'm indeed confused. I've pre-ordered the game via Origin, and now I'm hearing it should also use Denuvo...
I was not happy with SecuRom (darn Rootkits)...

I agree that publishers need to protect their games, but for god's sake, haven't we had that discussion years ago with SecuRom or Starforce?
SecuRom denied the launch of some of my games, claiming I should insert the original dvd (which was inserted).
SecuRom babbled I have to remove my virtual DVD drive, even if the original DVD was present.
That'S no piracy protection, that's customer protection.
Strange, that the game ran flawlessly, after using a no-dvd crack.
I'm not letting some bullshit DRM Software force me to uninstall Software I'm using on my PC under no fking circumstance.

So let's hope, that this "Denuvo" DRM is completly REMOVED after uninstalling the game and this "DRM" is not messing with my System or "forcing" me to uninstall software it doesn't like.

 

It's nothing like SecuRom and it's not even DRM. It doesn't even tell you to install a driver like SecuRom, nor does it tell you about activation limits.

[LEXX]

This won't stop me from buying the game.  What might stop me from buying it IF it can't be modded.  The same thing that stop me from buying Diablo 3 not because of the online thing but it can't be modded.  Most of the games that I buy nowadays are one that can be modded by the community.

[SilentCid]

This won't stop me from buying the game.  What might stop me from buying it IF it can't be modded.  The same thing that stop me from buying Diablo 3 not because of the online thing but it can't be modded.  Most of the games that I buy nowadays are one that can be modded by the community.

 

That wouldn't be anything related to denuvo if you can mod or not. Frostbite 3 makes near impossible without toolkits. If it could be modded then any other file other than the exe could be modded without any problems.

[Doroki]

Have any of you played lords of the fallen lately?  after the patches it runs a lot better now on my pc which means the early bad performance was the developers's fault. 

[danielkrs]

As always, stuff like this is like punching your paying customer in the face to spite the pirates. They won't feel it, but we will. 

That's exactly my point. You are preventing people that have already decided not to pay for the game from playing it but you are also affecting your paying customers and it doesn't matter by how much ( this remains to be seen ), for me that's just not right.

Btw If you are not expressing your opinion about a game at the said game developer's forum then where are you supposed to do that?

[dlux]

As always, stuff like this is like punching your paying customer in the face to spite the pirates. They won't feel it, but we will.

What will we feel?

 

The pirates crying puddles of tears because they can't play the game unless they buy it?