116 réponses à ce sujet

[EdwinLi]

Welcome to the party full of stinky cheeses

 

[andy6915]

I like her. I wasn't sure about her before, I thought she was going to be a cold ice b**** like Miranda was in early ME2. Now, I like her.

[His Name was HYR!!]

 Ooh I like her.

 

 

*edit* no, i was late.

[MCG]

I noticed that you could flirt with her, it seems she is the character you can flirt with but not actually romance .

[EdwinLi]

Ya she is interesting character. She supports the Circle but also agrees that the Circle will need some reforming 

[Bekkael]

I like her, even if my mage won't agree with her about the Circles.

[MCG]

She's the only mage who supports the circle it seems therefore she's perfect imo.

[Al Foley]

I have a feeling that if I were there Cassandra would have to hold me back from giving her a few choice words...

[EdwinLi]

I like her, even if my mage won't agree with her about the Circles.

 

Well she does make some good points when it comes to the Mages action.

 

However, this is basically a both sides are right and wrong situation.

 

Viviene is right that there needs to be a proper place for Mages to learn how to control their magic and that there will require a level of security to prevent mages from causing trouble due to having powers most people do not but is wrong about how much control over the mages is required.

 

As for Rebel Mages they are right that the circle took too much control over them at certain levels but wrong to go rebel at this scale because as Vivienne stated the sudden rebel of mages has forced other mages to rebel against their own will just to save themselves and that civilians are now stuck suffering the most in this conflict. Not to mention each circle are different as Vivienne stated and so not all were repressive.

 

Looking at both arguements it simply comes down to the Circle requiring reformation.

[Xilizhra]

Well she does make some good points when it comes to the Mages action.

 

However, this is basically a both sides are right and wrong situation.

 

Viviene is right that there needs to be a proper place for Mages to learn how to control their magic and that there will require a level of security to prevent mages from causing trouble due to having powers most people do not but is wrong about how much control over the mages is required.

 

As for Rebel Mages they are right that the circle took too much control over them at certain levels but wrong to go rebel at this scale because as Vivienne stated the sudden rebel of mages has forced other mages to rebel against their own will just to save themselves and that civilians are now stuck suffering the most in this conflict. Not to mention each circle are different as Vivienne stated and so not all were repressive.

 

Looking at both arguements it simply comes down to the Circle requiring reformation.

Perhaps... but the templars are the spoiler. The Order has to be obliterated before any effective reform can take place, with new and better guardians.

[Kimarous]

Link to "First Conversation" video.

 

I find it... refreshing that she's nowhere near as haughty and arrogant as I believed she would be. She's opinionated, yes, but I totally see where she's coming from and she comes across as level-headed and more... classy than stuffy.

[l7986]

Dam you Bioware, dark skinned women are my kyptonite and you don't let us romance her... Preorder canceled!

[Girtuoklis]

Can you not recruit her?

[Tevinter Soldier]

eh, i liked her in this video but the first convo you linked makes me think for all her talk, its just that. she comes across as a conniving politician rather then an ice queen.

 

i find her rather dull as a result, hopefully as the game goes on we learn more about her as person rather then just a politician.  

 

EDIT: yes the option was in the vid to say, "I dont think so" to her joining up.

[Morroian]

Holy cleavage batman.

[Hair Serious Business]

I noticed that you could flirt with her, it seems she is the character you can flirt with but not actually romance .

 

I'm going to flirt with everyone xD 

[Kinsz]

She says a lot of circles were very lenient , most in fact , thats very interesting :-) considering pro mages always tell how hard the mages have it.

[WardenSoul]

Well Vivienne just bumped her way into my regular party. Always found her disinteresting, but I am glad to see she shares the exact same views about the Circle as I do. I mean I knew this from reading of her before, but I guess it hit home this time lol.

 

 

 

She says a lot of circles were very lenient , most in fact , thats very interesting :-) considering pro mages always tell how hard the mages have it.

 

Most mages will say theyre oppressed and have it hard. Just as most Templars will tell you mages aren't policed enough and have too much leeway. Me? I think that the circle is exactly whats needed. Not the Kirkwall circle though. A little too much that one haha

[Nohvarr]

She says a lot of circles were very lenient , most in fact , thats very interesting :-) considering pro mages always tell how hard the mages have it.

Provides a different perspective on things.

 

[Xilizhra]

She says a lot of circles were very lenient , most in fact , thats very interesting :-) considering pro mages always tell how hard the mages have it.

A statement within her interest to say. Unfortunately, allowing benignity to proceed without change would allow the same for atrocity.

[berrieh]

She says a lot of circles were very lenient , most in fact , thats very interesting :-) considering pro mages always tell how hard the mages have it.

 

Glad she did. Until Kirkwall, this is basically what Asunder tells us as well - we see them in a more restrictive environment in Asunder, but the previous freedoms and lenience are always alluded to. Though it is worth noting that, from everything we know, a lot of the freedoms apply to the Enchanters, not the Apprentices. Once you've passed your Harrowing, a lot of the Circles are more lenient (it seems) than before you do. 

 

 

Most mages will say theyre oppressed and have it hard. Just as most Templars will tell you mages aren't policed enough and have too much leeway. Me? I think that the circle is exactly whats needed. Not the Kirkwall circle though. A little too much that one haha

 

I wonder if most mages would've really said that (oppressed) at most times, in most places, though, considering the previous votes (before the College was foolishly closed by the Templars) to remain with the Circle. Most mages with power, at least. I think there is very likely an imbalance between those who can join a College (enchanters) and young Apprentice mages. 

[Xilizhra]

Provides a different perspective on things.

 

The association fallacy here is like someone on top of a tall building dropping a sledgehammer on your head: it hurts a lot, but it's also impossible to respond for some reason.

 

Spoiler

Anders was not a Circle mage. He wasn't even an apostate from the Circle, given that he left it completely legally; he's more of a Grey Warden deserter. The Circle had nothing to do with his actions; not only was the templar crackdown in the wake of some possessed Warden blowing up a building completely unjust, but claiming that one supports mass murder by seceding from the Chantry because of said crackdown and the prior history of the Circle is so far away from reality that it's sort of mind-boggling.

[berrieh]

Xilizhra Anders was a Circle mage previously, then a run away apostate, conscripted by the Grey Wardens so he could have his freedom and not be returned to the Circle, then he couldn't tolerate the Wardens either, as Anders is too much of a rebel to work with factions, clearly (in DA:A, that seems a big part of his deal). In DA2, he is no longer a Circle mage, sure, but the idea that he had nothing with the Circle is false. He has contacts within the Kirkwall Circle, attempts to help mages escape, spies on them, etc. True, the Circle didn't choose his actions, but suggesting he was entirely outside the Circle is fairly silly. He's also a great example of why maybe it's a good idea to bring runaway apostate mages back to the Circle since clearly he was led astray outside its influence. 

 

I don't find anything Vivienne says to be inaccurate with what we know. From a very specific perspective, yes - that of the privileged Enchanter. Her point of view is not so different from Wynne's, really (harsher, but not so different). 

[Xilizhra]

Xilizhra Anders was a Circle mage previously, then a run away apostate, conscripted by the Grey Wardens so he could have his freedom and not be returned to the Circle, then he couldn't tolerate the Wardens either, as Anders is too much of a rebel to work with factions, clearly (in DA:A, that seems a big part of his deal). In DA2, he is no longer a Circle mage, sure, but the idea that he had nothing with the Circle is false. He has contacts within the Kirkwall Circle, attempts to help mages escape, spies on them, etc. True, the Circle didn't choose his actions, but suggesting he was entirely outside the Circle is fairly silly. He's also a great example of why maybe it's a good idea to bring runaway apostate mages back to the Circle since clearly he was led astray outside its influence. 

Regardless, attacking the Circle for his actions is wholly unjust, and then claiming that the Circle supports mass murder because of it is just bizarre. I have no intention of siding with Vivienne's "loyalists" if it comes down to it; sadly, she doesn't give us the opportunity to see this gigantic logical fallacy before recruiting her, so I can't use it as RP justification for not recruiting her.

[Nohvarr]

Regardless, attacking the Circle for his actions is wholly unjust, and then claiming that the Circle supports mass murder because of it is just bizarre. I have no intention of siding with Vivienne's "loyalists" if it comes down to it; sadly, she doesn't give us the opportunity to see this gigantic logical fallacy before recruiting her, so I can't use it as RP justification for not recruiting her.

Perception is reality. You can claim it doesn't make sense, the mages can say they were leaving for another reason....but if the circle breaking up at he height of such tension leads the masses to see them as supporting Mass Murder  then it's their truth no matter how hard you try to fight it, and that is why Vivienne makes a fair point.

 

Here's an example.

 

Sailors on a US military ship come into a foreign port, and go out on shore leave. 5995 sailors have fun and return to the ship  without incident. Five get into a fight the results in a death. What do you think the headlines will be in that port city the next morning? How do you think people of that nation will look on that ship, the navy, and the country it represents?