360 réponses à ce sujet

[Nightshade715]

Maybe I'm just trying to be optimistic but perhaps a Grey Warden you sacrifice to save Hawke isn't optional but always Stroud? He was the one you meet in the Deep Roads when you're on expedition, so it's not like he doesn't exist if Alistair or Loghain are with the Grey Wardens.

[Mecha Elf]

i would totally let hawke die, but Isabela would be very depressed im assuming so NOPE

[Kinsz]

How could anyone want to kill this !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYPjoi8P5Eo

[Kinsz]

[KC_Prototype]

So it's either Hawke or Stroud? Sorry Stroud, but my Hawke ain't dying! 

[thesuperdarkone2]

So it's either Hawke or Stroud? Sorry Stroud, but my Hawke ain't dying! 

It is also theorized that either Alistair or Loghain will take Stroud's place if either of them are Wardens. In that case, the choice becomes between letting Hawke or Alistair/Loghain die. Man, I can't wait for the forums posts about choosing Hawke or Alistair.

[fizzypop]

Hawke vs any grey warden is an easy choice. All grey wardens will eventually die a premature death. Makes no sense to save an older grey warden than Hawke who will only die in battle or from old age. Maybe if the Grey warden was a newer recruit and had many years left, but as it stands...Alistair, Stroud, or Loghain are all aging and set to die relatively soon. Makes no sense to save them over Hawke.

[chr0n0mancer]

Hawke vs any grey warden is an easy choice. All grey wardens will eventually die a premature death. Makes no sense to save an older grey warden than Hawke who will only die in battle or from old age. Maybe if the Grey warden was a newer recruit and had many years left, but as it stands...Alistair, Stroud, or Loghain are all aging and set to die relatively soon. Makes no sense to save them over Hawke.

I don't think that saving Alistair or Loghain are as baseless as you seem to think. While Stroud basically seems like a generic grey warden, Alistair and Loghain would both still be quite influential. Loghain is a great general which would be invaluable in a war, and Alistair, while he may not be king, he is still of royal lineage, which some people would still respect and follow, not to mention he helped stop the fifth blight. The argument could be made that either of them hold more strategic value to the inquisition than Hawke, who it's implied to be that many people believe he's at fault for what happened at Kirkwall.

[Bekkael]

Ugh, so it's actually just Virmire 2.0?  Gee, nobody's ever faced that scenario before!    I hate forced death where you have no roleplay option to change an outcome based on your choices...just yuck.

 

Anyway, I'm very sorry Stroud. RIP, and I salute your moustache.

[LaughingWolf]

Ugh, so it's actually just Virmire 2.0?  Gee, nobody's ever faced that scenario before!    I hate forced death where you have no roleplay option to change an outcome based on your choices...just yuck.

 

Anyway, I'm very sorry Stroud. RIP, and I salute your moustache.

Thats reality, you can't always save everyone.

[Heimdall]

Yeah, if it comes down to Stroud or Hawke there's really no rational argument by which I could be persuaded to kill my Hawke instead.

[Chari]

It's kind of worse than Virmire. I mean, as cool as Stroud is... how can he be compared to a PC? He's a NPC. Not even a popular one

Still at least the choice is easier

[fizzypop]

I don't think that saving Alistair or Loghain are as baseless as you seem to think. While Stroud basically seems like a generic grey warden, Alistair and Loghain would both still be quite influential. Loghain is a great general which would be invaluable in a war, and Alistair, while he may not be king, he is still of royal lineage, which some people would still respect and follow, not to mention he helped stop the fifth blight. The argument could be made that either of them hold more strategic value to the inquisition than Hawke, who it's implied to be that many people believe he's at fault for what happened at Kirkwall.

They might be influential, but they are dying. Their influence will run out and for loghain it should be right around the corner as he is much older than Alistair. Loghain was an idiot who made stupid choices so really I don't think he'd be a loss. There are plenty of great generals that didn't betray people on the battle field. It shows weakness of character and as a general. Killing an arch demon does not redeem a man from all the death he caused his own people and of the wardens.

Alistair unless he's hardened is relatively useless as inspiration. He wouldn't even be able to lead a wet blanket. Royal lineage means nothing. I don't care if he's "royal" or not. It is about whose life is more valuable. As a grey warden Alistair is less valuable. If he was king it'd be a harder choice. I'd kill my own warden over Hawke. I love Warden more than Hawke, but logically speaking it makes no sense to save someone who is dying. It is like choosing to save a terminal cancer patient from a bullet wound and allowing a healthy patient with a bullet wound to die. It makes no sense. Anyone who believes Hawke is at fault for anders losing his **** is an idiot and deserves to be told that. Hawke I'm guessing brings something pretty important to the inquisition since we know they play a role in the game (unlike the warden who isn't even in it). Plus she has experience with the major villain in the game. Hawke is more valuable.

[Heimdall]

Ugh, so it's actually just Virmire 2.0?  Gee, nobody's ever faced that scenario before!    I hate forced death where you have no roleplay option to change an outcome based on your choices...just yuck.

Not able to save everyone =/= no way to change an outcome.  Not having total control of a situation isn't a failure of roleplaying.  It just means there's no "everyone lives" outcome, and sometimes those options only weaken the choice, like going to the Circle to help Connor in Origins (It would have been fine if there was some repercussion for Redcliffe, but there wasn't...)

[KaiserShep]

I can't help but take this Virmire 2: Warden bugaloo thing with a grain of salt. I guess I'll see when I finally play, but it's just kind of weird to me that it would come down to choosing Stroudistairoghain or Hawke.

 

I suppose it doesn't matter since the mustache's demise is pretty much assured if this happens, but still.

[Bekkael]

I understand your sentiments but I don't think not being able to save everyone is failure of roleplay. The idea of roleplaying is being able to influence situations that you have control over. Situations that you have no control over will only be the ones that you can do so much.

 

It's a failure of how I like to roleplay, which is to be the big damn hero who is successful against all odds. I don't play games for reality, I play them to escape the harsh dictates of the real world. This isn't the forced killing of my hero though, so I'm not about to argue about it. We all have our preferences, and this just happens to be mine.

 

Also, I guess I will never import Alistair as a Grey Warden as I intended to, since I never want to be forced to choose between him and Hawke. Once again, sorry Stroud, but as a minor character you make the perfect sacrificial lamb so my cherished characters can survive.

[Senya]

"All my life, I've made the wrong decision, time and time again. But now, perhaps, I can do just one thing right."

[Heimdall]

It's a failure of how I like to roleplay, which is to be the big damn hero who is successful against all odds. I don't play games for reality, I play them to escape the harsh dictates of the real world. This isn't the forced killing of my hero though, so I'm not about to argue about it. We all have our preferences, and this just happens to be mine.

 

Also, I guess I will never import Alistair as a Grey Warden as I intended to, since I never want to be forced to choose between him and Hawke. Once again, sorry Stroud, but as a minor character you make the perfect sacrificial lamb so my cherished characters can survive.

See, that's a preference for a particular story, not a roleplaying preference (Roleplaying being about reacting to circumstances, not controlling those circumstances)

[chr0n0mancer]

They might be influential, but they are dying. Their influence will run out and for loghain it should be right around the corner as he is much older than Alistair. Loghain was an idiot who made stupid choices so really I don't think he'd be a loss. There are plenty of great generals that didn't betray people on the battle field. It shows weakness of character and as a general. Killing an arch demon does mot redeem a man from all the death he caused his own people and of the wardens.

Alistair unless he's hardened is relatively useless as inspiration. He wouldn't even be able to lead a wet blanket. Royal lineage means nothing. I don't care if he's "royal" or not. It is about whose life is more valuable. As a grey warden Alistair is less valuable. If he was king it'd be a harder choice. I'd kill my own warden over Hawke. I love Warden more than Hawke, but logically speaking it makes no sense to save someone who is dying. It is like choosing to save a terminal cancer patient from a bullet wound and allowing a healthy patient with a bullet wound to die. It makes no sense. Anyone who believes Hawke is at fault for anders losing his **** is an idiot and deserves to be told that. Hawke I'm guessing brings something pretty important to the inquisition since we know they play a role in the game (unlike the warden who isn't even in it). Plus she has experience with the major villain in the game.

I won't defend what Loghain did at Ostagar, but many people in Ferelden would believe he redeemed himself by fighting the Archdemon and devoting his life to the grey wardens, regardless of what you or I think. There are also some who don't even care about what he did at Ostagar and are more concerned what would help now. There are also many generals, but Loghain was the one who was able to unite Ferelden against Orlais and drive them out, he is still a powerful figure, and would help now in the war more than Hawke could, regardless of the fact that Hawke would live longer.

 

Alistair doesn't need to lead anything. The inquisition just needs to be backed by him, the citizens of Ferelden who still care about the royal line would be motivated to help the inquisition more if who they consider to be the rightful king is helping them.

 

An analogy that better suits this situation would be saving someone who would be a massive help now, but will die in 3 years, or saving someone who only potentially has information that might help, but will live the rest of his life.

 

The stories of what happened at Kirkwall may not even involve Anders, Cassandra goes into Varric's story thinking that Hawke came to Kirkwall to start the war. The true story is quite different, but people may either not believe it since it came from a close associate of his, or just haven't heard the true story. And the only info Hawke has on the main villain could easily be told to you by Varric, who was either their or heard what happened from Hawke. Saving Loghain or Alistair would definitely boost support, but saving Hawke may only lose you support by people who still believe he's the one who started the war, either from lack of knowing the true story or just disbelief of it. 

[renfrees]

Bah. Grey Wardens are about sacrifice anyway. Is that even a choice?

[zerox505]

can't wait to kill this abomination, the worst character in dragon age...second to anders. 

[Teddie Sage]

can't wait to kill this abomination, the worst character in dragon age...second to anders. 

How can he be an abomination if he isn't possessed with a demon? I think you seriously are hallucinating, my friend.