Someone's guesses.
Apparently there is a chart but there is no guarantee that we will ever see it.
According to Solas, they essentially mean "Property of ___________"
As of about 19 hours ago....@user @Mike_Laidlaw @Cameron__Lee Hm. I will check with @MattRhodesArt. He would know.
@PatrickWeekes @user @Mike_Laidlaw @Cameron__Lee We made a chart, but marketing people got excited and took it. Status: unknown.
So, annoying.
I assume this chart never saw the light of day?
Kektastic! Why does it matter now? Do elven players want to know which God they are slave to?
According to Solas, they essentially mean "Property of ___________"
That being said, the original meaning is completely irrelevant at this point. Symbols mean different things to different cultures and symbols of oppression are often reclaimed by the oppressed. I'm personally glad the dalish inquisitor can make this argument to Solas.
That being said, the original meaning is completely irrelevant at this point. Symbols mean different things to different cultures and symbols of oppression are often reclaimed by the oppressed. I'm personally glad the dalish inquisitor can make this argument to Solas.
Same here. It's what my Dalish said. The marks are an important part of her, no matter what they used to mean. Was pleasantly surprised when he instantly accepted her choice.
Please devs answer for those who plan to play as elfs and must have them.
Guest_Faerunner_*
As of about 19 hours ago....@user @Mike_Laidlaw @Cameron__Lee Hm. I will check with @MattRhodesArt. He would know.
@PatrickWeekes @user @Mike_Laidlaw @Cameron__Lee We made a chart, but marketing people got excited and took it. Status: unknown.
So, annoying.
What is this nonsense? Who made the chart? Did the person or people who made the chart suddenly get slapped with the amnesia stick the second the charts were taken from his or her or their hands? I didn't think so. Have them make another! Or write it down on a napkin or something.
Do a female elf mage and date Solas.
Spoiler
That being said, the original meaning is completely irrelevant at this point. Symbols mean different things to different cultures and symbols of oppression are often reclaimed by the oppressed. I'm personally glad the dalish inquisitor can make this argument to Solas.
It would be completely irrelevant if the Dalish didn't pass it off the ancient elven culture of liberated elves still free, rather than a remix with a completely different meaning.
For the Dalish to honestly claim to have reclaimed the symbol of oppression by themselves, they'd have to know it ever was a symbol of oppression. Instead, the Dalish culture treats their meaning as the original meaning.
It would be completely irrelevant if the Dalish didn't pass it off the ancient elven culture of liberated elves still free, rather than a remix with a completely different meaning.
For the Dalish to honestly claim to have reclaimed the symbol of oppression by themselves, they'd have to know it ever was a symbol of oppression. Instead, the Dalish culture treats their meaning as the original meaning.
Fair enough point, but still mostly irrelevant because such an insignificant portion of the population knows the original meaning; Solas, the Sentinels, potentially the Inquisitor.
So even excluding the specific act of reclamation, the only meaning a symbol can truly have is the meaning those who see it will recognize.
Spoiler
Fair enough point, but still mostly irrelevant because such an insignificant portion of the population knows the original meaning; Solas, the Sentinels, potentially the Inquisitor.
So even excluding the specific act of reclamation, the only meaning a symbol can truly have is the meaning those who see it will recognize.
Not if their meaning of it would change if they understood the truth of it's origin. 'Ignorance of' is not the same as 'irrelevance of'- the test of which would be the impact of the revelation. If the Dalish were to learn the truth of their past, it would undermine a number of the central narratives and shared understandings of their culture and history. Even if some double down and refuse to change, others would acknowledge and question themselves and their direction as a society and almost certainly change as a result. Different clans will respond in different directions, and the ongoing fragmentation of the Dalish culture will only accelerate. That would give it a good degree of relevance, would it not?
A relevant fact is one which would change people's perceptions, opinions, and actions if they learned it. An irrelevant fact is one which, even when known, makes no difference. Considering Dalish reliance on cultural narratives and oral history, and that giving the truth to a Dalish clan does spark a change in policies, I have a suspicion that this is going to be a relevant fact.
How much so, admittedly, can only be determined by actually revealing the truth to the population as a whole and waiting. But a truth which would have impact if revealed is not irrelevant, even if the population would be ignorant of it- that relevance is why people go to great lengths to hide 'secrets.'
My point is that a symbol, by it's very nature, has no inherent or intrinsic meaning. It has only that meaning that is assigned to it, and only that meaning that is recognized by the person who views it.
There is no "true" meaning to symbols. There is an "original" meaning, that meaning which was assigned to the symbol first, but that meaning is no more or less true than any other that is applied to that symbol over the course of the ages.
I suppose any given dalish would express any of the full range of reactions the Inquisitor has the option to express over this revelation; anger, denial, sorrow, horror, or my personal favorite, quickly (and in my opinion, correctly) deciding that it doesn't matter and moving on with their lives.
That seems pretty accurate, but the last three are Mythal, the first two are Dirthamen. There is an npc you meet in the game who worships Mythal, and has that last tattoo.
I know about the Mythal revelation but have you got any in game evidence for the first two being Dirthamen? Or is it just because that was the other guess? Coz someone made a good case for the 6th one actually being Dirthamen.
I don't know what each dalish tattoo represents but I know the Dalish receive their vallaslin at a certain age, Dalish children in origins had no vallaslin.
It's cultural and religious for the the People. Dalish vallaslin "reminds [them] that [they] will never again surrender [their] traditions and beliefs." Keeper Gisharel wrote, "The ritual deserves great reverence. The one who is to gain the vallaslin must prepare by meditating on the gods and the ways of our people, and by purifying the body and the skin. When the time comes, the keeper of the clan applies the blood writing. This is done in complete silence. Cries of pain are signs of weakness. If one cannot tolerate the pain of the blood writing, they are not ready to undertake the responsibilities of an adult. The keeper may stop the ritual if they decide that the one gaining the vallaslin is not ready."
My point is that a symbol, by it's very nature, has no inherent or intrinsic meaning. It has only that meaning that is assigned to it, and only that meaning that is recognized by the person who views it.
There is no "true" meaning to symbols. There is an "original" meaning, that meaning which was assigned to the symbol first, but that meaning is no more or less true than any other that is applied to that symbol over the course of the ages.
I suppose any given dalish would express any of the full range of reactions the Inquisitor has the option to express over this revelation; anger, denial, sorrow, horror, or my personal favorite, quickly (and in my opinion, correctly) deciding that it doesn't matter and moving on with their lives.
The Dalish understanding of the symbols is one of 'this is what the ancient elves meant it to mean, and we use it the same way.' That is its meaning to them. Rather than an inherent value, it's the underlying assumption of 'we use their symbols the same way they do' is a very important part of the Dalish culture of reclaiming the past.
The outside, original meaning of the symbol has meaning to the Dalish because the Dalish presuppose that everything of the ancient original elves had a meaning that they want to restore and reclaim. The entire Dalish culture as a collective has revolved around this reclamation conceit.
To say 'it doesn't matter and move on with their lives' ignores what the Dalish culture collectively considers it's raison d'etre to be- to be, know, and do just like the ancient elves did. If the Dalish were inclined to accept and move on and create new values and meanings, they wouldn't be the Dalish as we know them, resenting long-lost wars from hundreds to thousands of years ago and telling eachother about the mythic glory days when they were on top.
Dalish culture is fixated on the past. Revelations that the past wasn't kind to them (in ways they didn't believe) are going to have a much greater impact on their society than one of five-odd options your Inquisitor might roleplay.
It's cultural and religious for the the People. Dalish vallaslin "reminds [them] that [they] will never again surrender [their] traditions and beliefs." Keeper Gisharel wrote, "The ritual deserves great reverence. The one who is to gain the vallaslin must prepare by meditating on the gods and the ways of our people, and by purifying the body and the skin. When the time comes, the keeper of the clan applies the blood writing. This is done in complete silence. Cries of pain are signs of weakness. If one cannot tolerate the pain of the blood writing, they are not ready to undertake the responsibilities of an adult. The keeper may stop the ritual if they decide that the one gaining the vallaslin is not ready."
Amazing how compatible that is with slave brands. I bet the ancient elves didn't look kindly on crying recipients either.
(Though they obviously wouldn't have stopped it on a Keeper's word. Keepers didn't exist back then.)
The Dalish understanding of the symbols is one of 'this is what the ancient elves meant it to mean, and we use it the same way.' That is its meaning to them. Rather than an inherent value, it's the underlying assumption of 'we use their symbols the same way they do' is a very important part of the Dalish culture of reclaiming the past.
The outside, original meaning of the symbol has meaning to the Dalish because the Dalish presuppose that everything of the ancient original elves had a meaning that they want to restore and reclaim. The entire Dalish culture as a collective has revolved around this reclamation conceit.
The Dalish want to uncover knowledge that was lost due to centuries of slavery, but that doesn't mean they necessarily want to replicate all aspects of Arlathan culture. The Sabrae Clan considered the possibility that Arlathan elves summoned Audacity, and it didn't shift them away from their prohibition against using magic that involves spirits, since the People traditionally view spirits as dangerous.
To say 'it doesn't matter and move on with their lives' ignores what the Dalish culture collectively considers it's raison d'etre to be- to be, know, and do just like the ancient elves did. If the Dalish were inclined to accept and move on and create new values and meanings, they wouldn't be the Dalish as we know them, resenting long-lost wars from hundreds to thousands of years ago and telling eachother about the mythic glory days when they were on top.
The Dalish don't do like the Arlathan elves did - there are a number of differences that are acknowledged, including their nomadic lifestyle. Some don't even think they should try to establish a new homeland, and should instead continue living free as nomadic tribes.
Dalish culture is fixated on the past. Revelations that the past wasn't kind to them (in ways they didn't believe) are going to have a much greater impact on their society than one of five-odd options your Inquisitor might roleplay.
It's actually fixated on survival. Living free to follow their own culture and religion, and not be forced to convert to the Andrastian faith or live in impoverished, dilapidated ghettos otherwise known as Alienages, seems to be their primary concern.
Amazing how compatible that is with slave brands. I bet the ancient elves didn't look kindly on crying recipients either.
(Though they obviously wouldn't have stopped it on a Keeper's word. Keepers didn't exist back then.)
That's actually not comparable when you consider it's a religious ceremony that involves contemplation on the gods and the ways of the People.
We know this one is Mythal, because of who is wearing it. All of the sentinels in that temple wear it. (And any reason for posting an Abelas image is a good one.)
Do we actually know if the definition of slavery in Arlathan and definition of slavery in modern Thedas match word for word...?
While it's more probable that they DO match, unless I've missed something, it's not confirmed.
(Didn't romance Solas. Just throwing that out, in case someone knows more than I do.)
Do we actually know if the definition of slavery in Arlathan and definition of slavery in modern Thedas match word for word...?
While it's more probable that they DO match, unless I've missed something, it's not confirmed.
(Didn't romance Solas. Just throwing that out, in case someone knows more than I do.)
Corypheus also tells a Dalish inquisitor about the slave markings in the last fight.
Do we actually know if the definition of slavery in Arlathan and definition of slavery in modern Thedas match word for word...?
While it's more probable that they DO match, unless I've missed something, it's not confirmed.
(Didn't romance Solas. Just throwing that out, in case someone knows more than I do.)
I know some speculate Arlathan vallaslin basically meant you were beholden to one of the Creators, considering what Abelas says.
I'm pretty sure when Solas says Valaslin are slave markings, he's referring to slavery as the player would understand it.
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