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[TheClonesLegacy]

You mean this?

 

 

Yea, just having the hair like that would be awesome

 

the markings would be an awesome bonus

Yeah, that's it.

That'd actually would be the most preferable design imo.

 

The markings make it unique.

[o Ventus]

Because it's bad.

 

It was a shameless cash grab by Toei Animation that paid no attention to continuity, or logic. Leaving a poor product riddled with plot holes and absence of sense.

Even though GT is far more internally consistent than either DB or DBZ.

[AresKeith]

I do like some of the premises of the villains (baby) and that but I can barely remember any of it. Unlike Dragonball Z where I can remember the 259 episode wait until earth was destroyed, Frieza blowing up Krillin into space dust, Gohan finally snapping and beating Cell like you beat eggs and Ultimate Gohan... though when Earth was destroyed kinda crushed me and not in the good way.

 

I liked Baby but they really was pushing it over the top with blowing up Earth and then making a new one, and Super 17 and Dark Dragons was the most BS on that show

 

 

If the trailers are any indication the movie is going to be action packed.

 

I heard a rumor that it's setting up Vegeta as the hero, which would be a good thing imo because he deserves it

[o Ventus]

Yea, the Monkey fur and turning into a Great Ape for SSJ4 was kinda doing too much

 

 

The monkey fur makes total sense, given that Dragon Ball is a loose modern adaptation and reimagination of Journey to the West, with Goku being a reimagined version of the main character in that story, Sun Wukong the Monkey King. If anything, the SSJ4 design is more accurate to the source material than DBZ Goku. I rather like the SSJ4 look, though I dislike SSJ4 Vegeta's hair. Probably my favorite super saiyan design overall, especially for Goku himself.

[Dio Demon]

I liked Baby but they really was pushing it over the top with blowing up Earth and then making a new one, and Super 17 and Dark Dragons was the most BS on that show

 

 

I heard a rumor that it's setting up Vegeta as the hero, which would be a good thing imo because he deserves it

Cue the death threats.

 

Also I forgot about Super 17?

 

Can I reforget please?

[TheClonesLegacy]

Even though GT is far more internally consistent than either DB or DBZ.

SSJ4 Gogeta doesn't destroy Omega Shenron immediately.

He plays around with him. Despite being far more powerful.

 

Remember Janemba?
Gogeta took him out immediately.

Pretty consistent right there right?

 

Or how about the rest of the Shadow Dragon Saga, where Goku gets his ass handed to him by the weaker dragons for no other reason than he's being an idiot.

Goku might not be very smart, but he's fairly decent at strategy.

Wow. Much consist.

 

DBZ has similar problems like that. But they also didn't imply Dragonballs Kami made still exist. The black star balls shouldn't exist simple as that. So the driving force of the plot is nonsensical.

[TheClonesLegacy]

I heard a rumor that it's setting up Vegeta as the hero, which would be a good thing imo because he deserves it

He really does.

Guy became a punching bag fairly rapidly.

[AresKeith]

I Hated that they did that with SSJ4 Gogeta 

 

Out of all the fusions he was the most serious one 

[o Ventus]

The western Dragon Ball fandom is so soaked in the anime that most of us have internalized filler as canon without even knowing it.

 

So the experience of Toriyama just walking right past things like the Bardock Special without skipping a beat I imagine is jarring to people who never really took in the manga as the primary ride.

 

The Bardock Special is canon, and Bardock actually IS in the manga.

 

 

In addition to the TV Special, Bardock gets his own standalone episode, creatively named Episode of Bardock. The events of the TV special are also indirectly mentioned in Battle of Gods, which itself is canon.

[Clover Rider]

Guy became a punching bag fairly rapidly.

Because he made things worse for himself most of the time.

 

That and again, Toriyama humor.

 

Tho Toriyama does want to focus on him more.

[Dio Demon]

Because he made things worse for himself most of the time.

 

That and again, Toriyama humor.

 

Tho Toriyama does want to focus on him more.

My favourite scene was when Vegeta decided to blow himself to kingdom come to kill Buu. I still wish it actually killed him but then the scene wouldn't have been as dramatic then.

[Clover Rider]

Bardock actually IS in the manga.

Yup.

 

His design is canon.

[o Ventus]

SSJ4 Gogeta doesn't destroy Omega Shenron immediately.

 

He plays around with him. Despite being far more powerful.

 

How is this at all an inconsistency? The only other showing of Gogeta is Fusion Reborn, which is apparently non-canon. With that in mind, there's no template for how Gogeta "should" behave.

 

Remember Janemba?

 

See above.

 

Or how about the rest of the Shadow Dragon Saga, where Goku gets his ass handed to him by the weaker dragons for no other reason than he's being an idiot.

Goku might not be very smart, but he's fairly decent at strategy.

Wow. Much consist.

 

Goku is horrible at strategy. Are you serious? 9 times out of 10 his first idea is to speed blitz the enemy and trade blows until one of them either dies or gets knocked back.

 

DBZ has similar problems like that. But they also didn't imply Dragonballs Kami made still exist. The black star balls shouldn't exist simple as that. So the driving force of the plot is nonsensical.

 

This isn't even a reasoned argument. "They shouldn't exist" with no supporting evidence or supporting point isn't an argument.

[Milan92]

I heard Toriyama hates Vegeta.

[o Ventus]

Yup.

 

His design is canon.

... As are the events of both Bardock -- Father of Goku and Episode of Bardock. They both have manga chapters, and they are mentioned in Battle of Gods, which Toriyama himself said takes place between chapters 517 and 518.

[Milan92]

So Bardock really was the first Super Saiyan then?

[AresKeith]

Goku is horrible at strategy. Are you serious? 9 times out of 10 his first idea is to speed blitz the enemy and trade blows until one of them either dies or gets knocked back.

 

 

TFS Goku's strategy: Hit them harder

 

 

This isn't even a reasoned argument. "They shouldn't exist" with no supporting evidence or supporting point isn't an argument.

 

Actually it is, since the other Dragon Balls were gone with Kami fused with Piccolo the others created by Kami should have also

[Dio Demon]

 

Goku is horrible at strategy. Are you serious? 9 times out of 10 his first idea is to speed blitz the enemy and trade blows until one of them either dies or gets knocked back.

 

 

Goku takes one thing seriously and that's fighting much to the detriment of everything else.

[TheClonesLegacy]

How is this at all an inconsistency? The only other showing of Gogeta is Fusion Reborn, which is apparently non-canon. With that in mind, there's no template for how Gogeta "should" behave.

 

 

 

 

See above.

 

 

 

 

Goku is horrible at strategy. Are you serious? 9 times out of 10 his first idea is to speed blitz the enemy and trade blows until one of them either dies or gets knocked back.

 

 

 

 

This isn't even a reasoned argument. "They shouldn't exist" with no supporting evidence or supporting point isn't an argument.

GT is also non-canon. In fact I'm fairly certain movie characters showed up in GT, considering the whole thing was a big cash grab by Toei animation,

I am shocked they didn't just make Broly the final villain.

But really, why shouldn't you make Gogeta more serious? Really make the big final battle of the series and possibly franchise something really cool and epic.

And not involve friggin Party favors.

 

From TV Tropes:

Spoiler

Combat Pragmatist:

In Dragon Ball. The "scissor" move of his Rock Scissors 'n' Paper technique was eye-gouging and sometimes he'd use this technique by pretending to use one move and instead using another one (shouting "paper" and using "rock" instead, for example). He also resisted Tenshinhan's Solar Flare technique by wearing Master Roshi's sunglasses.

 

He escapes from being strangled by Freeza by biting the latter's tail. He also bites Kid Buu when he was fighting him as a Super Saiyan 3, but this time it was mostly played for comedy (Kid Buu bites him back). He also bit King Piccolo's thumb in their first fight.

 

Possibly his first act of playing this trope in DBZ was when he shot an energy blast at Oozaru Vegeta's eye.

Before then, he planned to defeat his brother Raditz by grabbing his tail.

 

Invokes the trope again during his fight with Recoome where he defeats Recoome with a single elbow to the stomach but did it while Recoome was powering up to perform a technique. Goku even lampshades this after the fight is over:

Goku: "I saw an opening that screamed attack... so I did."

In his defense, Goku seems to assume his enemies are just as willing to use such tactics (and is often right). When challenged by Jeice and Burter, when Jeice is getting ready for a fight he demands Goku "Give it yor bes' shawt!" Less than a second after he finishes the sentence, Goku breaks his nose, even though Jeice hadn't even entered a fighting stance.

Goku: You said "give it your best shot." I thought you were ready.

 

Actually it is, since the other Dragon Balls were gone with Kami fused with Piccolo the others created by Kami should have also

Thank you Ares.

But yeah. Even if they're made by the Namekian before Kami and Piccolo split, they still shouldn't exist. In the Cell saga Piccolo even clarifies that him and Kami won't merge back into that same being they were before.

[o Ventus]

So Bardock really was the first Super Saiyan then?

I don't know about The *first* first, but he's the first to be *seen*. His Super Saiyan presence doesn't contradict the creatively named Original Super Saiyan.

[o Ventus]

 

Actually it is, since the other Dragon Balls were gone with Kami fused with Piccolo the others created by Kami should have also

Dende modified the balls when he became Earth's guardian, which also empowered Shenron to let him grant more than one wish.

[TheClonesLegacy]

Dende modified the balls when he became Earth's guardian, which also empowered Shenron to let him grant more than one wish.

Dende modified/recreated the normal set.

Not the Black Star Balls. Completely separate set.

Which I've said why they shouldn't exist.

[Clover Rider]

... As are the events of both Bardock -- Father of Goku and Episode of Bardock. They both have manga chapters, and they are mentioned in Battle of Gods, which Toriyama himself said takes place between chapters 517 and 518.

The manga.

 

And Minus is the only canon.

 

You can make a case these new movies are canon at least.

 

But nothing from Father of Goku happened in the manga.

 

In Minus Planet Vegeta even looks nothing like it did in that special.

[o Ventus]

Goku takes one thing seriously and that's fighting much to the detriment of everything else.

That doesn't mean he's smart with it. His entire plan to fight Beerus (both in SSJ3 and in SSJG) is little more than a speed blitz.

 

But then I remember that a good 95% of the fights in DBZ are speed blitzes, regardless of who's fighting.