GT is also non-canon. In fact I'm fairly certain movie characters showed up in GT, considering the whole thing was a big cash grab by Toei animation,
I am shocked they didn't just make Broly the final villain.
But really, why shouldn't you make Gogeta more serious? Really make the big final battle of the series and possibly franchise something really cool and epic.
And not involve friggin Party favors.
Broly would've worked better tbh
The manga.
And Minus is the only canon.
You can make a case these new movies are canon at least.
But nothing from Father of Goku happened in the manga.
In Minus Planet Vegeta even looks nothing like it did in that special.
Did you even look at the scan I posted earlier? In what way is it not canon if it's RIGHT THERE IN THE MANGA?
Dende modified/recreated the normal set.
Not the Black Star Balls. Completely separate set.
Which I've said why they shouldn't exist.
What about the Black Star balls doesn't make sense?
Broly would've worked better tbh
I don't even like Broly and I agree.
Did you even look at the scan I posted earlier? In what way is it not canon if it's RIGHT THERE IN THE MANGA?
You ever hear of Retcons?
Western comics do them all the time.
I don't like DB minus, but I don't deny it's canon.
What about the Black Star balls doesn't make sense?
I said why.
They were made by a being (Pre-Kami/Piccolo Namekian) that doesn't exist anymore.
Piccolo clarifies in the Cell saga that they won't become that being again when they fuse.
No being=No Black Star Balls.
Understand?
You better because I'm really not in the mood to continue this.
No, it's not really canon.
Don't tell me you took Rah's "don't trust Geth and Puddi" for real.
Guest_Puddi III_*
I don't even like Broly and I agree.
You ever hear of Retcons?
Western comics do them all the time.
I don't like DB minus, but I don't deny it's canon.
I know how retcons work. I'm guessing you don't though, since you're taking issue with them in this case.
Retcon is short for retroactive continuity.
It doesn't conflict with or contradict anything that's already been established, so why is this an issue? Jesus, this is why I try to avoid canon debates when it comes to DBZ. Half the fanbase says the movies and GT are canon, the other half say they aren't. Half the fanbase says the anime is canon, the other half says it isn't.
I know how retcons work. I'm guessing you don't though, since you're taking issue with them in this case.
Retcon is short for retroactive continuity.
It doesn't conflict with or contradict anything that's already been established, so why is this an issue? Jesus, this is why I try to avoid canon debates when it comes to DBZ. Half the fanbase says the movies and GT are canon, the other half say they aren't. Half the fanbase says the anime is canon, the other half says it isn't.
Identity Crisis. That is all.
You walked into this like a screen door. You can shake it off and walk away whenever you want.
DBZ does have strict canon though. The Manga and what's confirmed by Akira Toriyama.
Everything else? Not really.
It's not Doctor Who, you can't pick and choose canon.
I said why.
They were made by a being (Pre-Kami/Piccolo Namekian) that doesn't exist anymore.
Piccolo clarifies in the Cell saga that they won't become that being again when they fuse.
No being=No Black Star Balls.
Understand?
You better because I'm really not in the mood to continue this.
The entire point of the Black Star balls is that they are vastly more powerful than the regular balls.
Also, when Piccolo and Kami fuse, they become the Nameless Namekian again (though he says he prefers to be called "Piccolo"). How is this contradictory to established lore? I haven't seen GT in quite some time, but aren't the balls also destroyed at the end of the series because Piccolo is dead?
The entire point of the Black Star balls is that they are vastly more powerful than the regular balls.
Also, when Piccolo and Kami fuse, they become the Nameless Namekian again (though he says he prefers to be called "Piccolo"). How is this contradictory to established lore? I haven't seen GT in quite some time, but aren't the balls also destroyed at the end of the series because Piccolo is dead?
They were made by a being (Pre-Kami/Piccolo Namekian) that doesn't exist anymore.
Piccolo clarifies in the Cell saga that they won't become that being again when they fuse.
You done now?
Honestly.
Identity Crisis. That is all.
You walked into this like a screen door. You can shake it off and walk away whenever you want.
DBZ does have strict canon though. The Manga and what's confirmed by Akira Toriyama.
Everything else? Not really.
It's not Doctor Who, you can't pick and choose canon.
Except I'm not picking and choosing canon. YOU ARE. I haven't declared anything to be canon, except for the things that have already been confirmed canon. You're the one sticking your fingers in your ears yelling "LALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU".
"... And what's confirmed by Akira Toriyama" is a terrible rule to follow. You may as well be saying that any Batman story not written by Bob Kane isn't canon, thus negating almost half a century of comics.
When Kami or Piccolo dies the dragonballs petrify like the Namekian dragon balls did when Guru dies on Namek.
Since when Kami fused with Piccolo, both he and Piccolo died to become the new form, so any dragonballs made by Kami petrify.
Which the Blackstar Dragonballs were made by Kami, they should be stone.
Except I'm not picking and choosing canon. YOU ARE. I haven't declared anything to be canon, except for the things that have already been confirmed canon. You're the one sticking your fingers in your ears yelling "LALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU".
"... And what's confirmed by Akira Toriyama" is a terrible rule to follow. You may as well be saying that any Batman story not written by Bob Kane isn't canon, thus negating almost half a century of comics.
Pretty sure that's what you're doing.
I work of Word of God. Which is what people do.
Be it what the company deems canon, or the creator.
And I think I'll wrap this up here. I'm really not having fun here anymore.
Except I'm not picking and choosing canon. YOU ARE. I haven't declared anything to be canon, except for the things that have already been confirmed canon. You're the one sticking your fingers in your ears yelling "LALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU".
"... And what's confirmed by Akira Toriyama" is a terrible rule to follow. You may as well be saying that any Batman story not written by Bob Kane isn't canon, thus negating almost half a century of comics.
Isn't DC ruled by multiple Universe Syndrome?
I just follow this simple rule for canon'ing in DBZ.
If newer material retcons older material then old said material is no longer canon.
GT is no longer canon by virtue of Battle of Gods.
Guest_TrillClinton_*
You done now?
Honestly.
Piccolo's very first words after fusing with Kami
"No longer am I Kami or Piccolo. I am the Namek who has long since forgotten his name."
When Kami dies the dragonballs are petrify like the Namekian dragon balls did when Guru dies on Namek.
Since when Kami fused with Piccolo, both he and Piccolo died to become the new form, so any dragonballs made by Kami petrify.
Which the Blackstar Dragonballs were made by Kami, they should be stone.
The Black Star balls weren't made by Kami, they were created by the Nameless Namekian before he split. They're destroyed when fused!Piccolo dies.
hIm curious, which language do people use while playing the game? I personally use the Japanese dub, though i have to read the subtitles I still prefer the sound of it when it comes to DBZ.
The dub -- Even if I have to suffer through Colleen Clickenbeard's dreadful voice as Gohan I at least get to hear Chris Ayres as Frieza and Dameon Clarke can finally voice Perfect Cell in-game as well without sounding like Imperfect Cell like in the Budokai games. Plus Sean is just the better Goku.
The monkey fur makes total sense, given that Dragon Ball is a loose modern adaptation and reimagination of Journey to the West, with Goku being a reimagined version of the main character in that story, Sun Wukong the Monkey King. If anything, the SSJ4 design is more accurate to the source material than DBZ Goku. I rather like the SSJ4 look, though I dislike SSJ4 Vegeta's hair. Probably my favorite super saiyan design overall, especially for Goku himself.
There is also the fact that SSJ4 isn't a Super Saiyan form at all but a more controlled if not compressed state of the Oozaru Form. So the fur makes a lot of sense, since it's a hybrid of the base saiyan form + oozaru form. Also the way to achieve the form is nothing like the previous SSJ forms. You don't get more angry or push into some deeper well or reservoir of power/ki/will power or whatever have you, it's purely biological in that it requires a full blooded Saiyan to absorb a large amount of brutes waves from a moon, and then reawaken their I guess full consciousness while in oozaru and purposely change/control the transformation? it's hard to break down since it's all nonsense, but I loved it anyway. the GT Oozaru transformation for Goku and his subsequent transformation into SSJ4 were classic if not the most memorable transformations in either series with only the original SSJ Goku transformation coming close to it in splendor in my opinion.
sorry can't find the english subtitles, but this is one of the greatest scenes in GT to me.
Isn't DC ruled by multiple Universe Syndrome?
I just follow this simple rule for canon'ing in DBZ.
If newer material retcons older material then old said material is no longer canon.
GT is no longer canon by virtue of Battle of Gods.
If you want to go that route neither is the ending of DBZ canon, as Pan was clearly born by that time, Gohan was most certainly alive, and Bra was also born by that time and was either the same age as Pan or Older. Vegeta most certainly didn't surpass Goku and Goku most certainly was not a Super Saiyan God, so any deaths that happen in Revival of F is going to contradict everything in the post Majin Buu saga. Also by the time GT starts it's been at least 10 years since DBZ itself ended, which is at least enough time for 10 Dragon Ball wishes to be made, it's not impossible that one of those 10 potential wishes was Pilaf and co wishing to be restored to their normal ages, none of them especially Mai seem to be happy being a kid again.
so wants.
you hear about the people want ing it banned dur to the female characters being hit?
so wants.
you hear about the people want ing it banned dur to the female characters being hit?
Wait wat?
so wants.
you hear about the people want ing it banned dur to the female characters being hit?
Reading this is a bit strange for me. I used to like DBZ, watched regularly up to the Buu Saga, but really lost interest. I even tend to view it as sexist due to the lack of a female character that can keep up with the main cast. I'm questioning that thought though after reading some fan statements on how characters are miss used. For example Vegeta being a punching bag for the big bad used to make Goku look good. Sort of like Krillin. I'm beginning to lean in the direction that it's less sexism and more that several characters were horribly horrible miss used.
Now I'll still criticize several other aspects of the storyline especially with how inconsistent character power is and lacking in common sense both heroes and villains are. Love the team four star version though.
Vegeta, "What do I yell things?"
Yet i thought Xenoverse would receive a good bit of praise for actually allowing players to make a female character. It's hard for me to call something sexist whenever a woman can be the one beating the day lights out of the big bad and she's actually fully clothed. Well almost. I like the wild rider outfit which shows some leg. It sure is a big step in the right direction to me.
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