119 réponses à ce sujet

[Lumix19]

DENUVO IS CONSIDERED A ROOTKIT MUCH PEOPLE NOT UNDERSTOOD WHY THIS TOOLS IS DANGER,REALLY LOVE PLAY A GAME WITH A ROOTKIT THAT DESTROY MY O.S AND SPY MY INFORMATION?

 

SEE THE PROBLEMS OF LORD OF FALLEN.

Still propagating misinformation I see despite already having this thread closed down for that reason.

 

There are no more legitimate concerns because the concerns have been addressed (which is why the previous thread was closed, and I wager this one will be too).

 

The developers have spoken: Denuvo is not DRM; it is not harmful to your PC; and if there's a performance impact, it hasn't been proven. Given that Denuvo has been used on two other major titles, it's fair to say that if there was a meaningful or noticeable impact on performance, it would have been proven. It hasn't.

 

It's time to move on.

It really is. Somebody report this thread and have it locked please.

[danielkrs]

There are no more legitimate concerns because the concerns have been addressed (which is why the previous thread was closed, and I wager this one will be too).

 

The developers have spoken: Denuvo is not DRM; it is not harmful to your PC; and if there's a performance impact, it hasn't been proven. Given that Denuvo has been used on two other major titles, it's fair to say that if there was a meaningful or noticeable impact on performance, it would have been proven. It hasn't.

 

It's time to move on.

How would you prove something when you don't have a point of comparison? Even the Bioware guy said the only way to know for sure is to compare the CPU performance with and without Denuvo. Please let me know when has this been done?

You can lock threads all you like that doesn't change a thing. The threads will keep on popping up until there's some concrete statement. And no, don't post me a link to the Denuvo website.

[MysterD77]

I will just point out that there's zero evidence just how much if any performance hit exists due to the Denuvo anti-temper or whatever. And no, Bioware have not said it doesn't affect game performance. I understand the Lords of the Fallen developers claiming 1-5% hit on Twitch but I am not sure I believe how accurate that is. Is it so hard for people to understand that these are legitimate concerns?

 

Of course it's a legitimate concern!

 

I think any extra programs running - whether it's forced by the dev's and/or publishers onto the product itself, or something optionally ran by the users, or a combo both - there's going to be framerate dips + performance decreases. It's just inevitable.

 

And I'm betting people are wanting to keep their performance as good as they possibly can - definitely those who are barely meeting the minimum specs; and especially those who might be aiming for certain in-game settings (for example - I'd likely want to try to run the game in 1080p).

[Ryzaki]

Threads like this are popping up because people who didn't know what they were talking about started a big scare thread comparing the anti-tamper measure to SecuROM, which was then locked, and then people who still didn't know what they were talking about started more threads.

 

To be fair it's made by the same people who did that garbage.

 

When you deliver a terrible product similar or not people are going to use that experience to judge your future ones.

[Dreamer]

How would you prove something when you don't have a point of comparison? Even the Bioware guy said the only way to know for sure is to compare the CPU performance with and without Denuvo. Please let me know when has this been done?

 

The Inquisitor's flaming sword cuts both ways...

 

Since it cannot be compared, you have no frame of reference to suggest it impacts performance. You have not played the game without it so how could you possibly know it was hampering the game's capabilities at all? Assumption?

[Ogunb]

Company had the right and the need to protect their work.

 

Take your complain to the hacker if company growed desperate enough to try increasingly bizantine way to protect their work, stop this bullshit of the big bad evil corporation trying to screw up the loyal saintly customer because they are the same people who cornered them in making those decision.

I. AM. NOT. COMPLAINING. I'm saying that, it shouldn't effect me. I'm worried and I impress my feelings, what's wrong with it?

For the record: I'll probably play everything on low, because my pc isn't that good.

[Wulfram]

I don't really see why I should care why the game performs as it does. All that matters is the actual performance that I get on my PC.

[danielkrs]

The Inquisitor's flaming sword cuts both ways...

 

Since it cannot be compared, you have no frame of reference to suggest it impacts performance. You have not played the game without it so how could you possibly know it was hampering the game's capabilities at all? Assumption?

And you are making the assumption that it doesn't. Fair enough, would it be so hard if that's the case for someone from Bioware to make an official statement "Your game performance will not be affected at all" or "Your game performance will take a 1% hit" etc. Then it will be our choice if we are ok with that.

[Dreamer]

And you are making the assumption that it doesn't. Fair enough, would it be so hard if that's the case for someone from Bioware to make an official statement "Your game performance will not be affected at all" or "Your game performance will take a 1% hit" etc. Then it will be our choice if we are ok with that.

 

Bioware has stated that they cannot know if it does or does not affect performance because they use the same consumer executable that we are given. So instead of thinking about a 1-5% (disproved) impact on the game's performance, think "this is simply how the game performs"--which by virtually all accounts is fantastic.

[rubynorman]

BW has the right to protect their work. Don't like it ? Don't buy it. Or just buy a console and forget all about DRM, Origin etc

 

I'm glad that BW protects their work this time, and I hope it last for more than a month. Those pirates shouldn't have the right to play a game that someone spent 4 years working on it with all his efforts. At least not in the 1st month of its release.

 

And they already published the PC spec, DRM or not, if you PC meets the spec, it will run the game.

[llandwynwyn]

Bioware has stated that they cannot know if it does or does not affect performance because they use the same consumer executable that we are given. So instead of thinking about a 1-5% (disproved) impact on the game's performance, think "this is simply how the game performs"--which by virtually all accounts is fantastic.

 

C'mon, dude. They could, if they wanted to.

[Dreamer]

C'mon, dude. They could, if they wanted to.

 

They don't have to.

[MysterD77]

BW has the right to protect their work. Don't like it ? Don't buy it. Or just buy a console and forget all about DRM, Origin etc

 

I'm glad that BW protects their work this time, and I hope it last for more than a month. Those pirates shouldn't have the right to play a game that someone spent 4 years working on it with all his efforts. At least not in the 1st month of its release.

 

And they already published the PC spec, DRM or not, if you PC meets the spec, it will run the game.

 

As a PC gamer, I'd rather run DA:I on the PC and be able to push graphical settings to how I see fit and what my system can handle, not be stuck + limited to what a fixed-console can handle. If I feel like sinking the $ into better hardware and want to push it to the moon, then I can so. I don't want to be limited by a fixed-box (console).

 

Everyone here probably agrees that BioWare and EA should protect their work - no brainer. We want BioWare and EA to keep putting out great stuff. The problem is this: most of these DRM systems + anti-cheat measures, they can cause problems to legit users. We can look through DRM's over the years - and we can say Securom, StarForce, Tages, etc have all had causes problems to the legit users, in some way.

 

And these DRM schemes don't always shut the pirates out and/or shut the cheaters out entirely - it's only normally a matter of time, until those find ways around this stuff. And once they've found their way around it - well, all the DRM did was delay these things for some short amount of time. I guess the pub's and dev's probably do figure is better to have their product protected for a short time rather than nothing, when their games are likely at their first release's maximum price-tag point ($60 MSRP).

[Dreamer]

As a PC gamer, I'd rather run DA:I on the PC and be able to push graphical settings to how I see fit and what my system can handle, not be stuck + limited to what a fixed-console can handle. If I feel like sinking the $ into better hardware and want to push it to the moon, then I can so. I don't want to be limited by a fixed-box (console).

 

Everyone here probably agrees that BioWare and EA should protect their work - no brainer. We want BioWare and EA to keep putting out great stuff. The problem is this: most of these DRM systems + anti-cheat measures, they can cause problems to legit users. We can look through DRM's over the years - and we can say Securom, StarForce, Tages, etc have all had causes problems to the legit users. And these DRM schemes don't always shut the pirates out and/or shut the cheaters out entirely - it's only normally a matter of time, until those find ways around this stuff. And once they've found their way around it - well, all the DRM did was delay these things for some short amount of time. I guess the pub's and dev's probably do figure is better to have their product protected for a short time rather than nothing, when their games are likely at their first release's maximum price-tag point ($60 MSRP).

 

Then it's a good thing that Denuvo is NOT DRM. It has been stated multiple times that the only DRM attached to Inquisition is Origin itself.

[tmp7704]

Then it's a good thing that Denuvo is NOT DRM. It has been stated multiple times that the only DRM attached to Inquisition is Origin itself.

Whether it's DRM or not is a bit of a red herring -- the actual issue boils down to if its inclusion is needed at all. And tbh I can't really think of a reason it'd be. Do BW expect people to write autoaim hacks for a game that doesn't use aiming?

[MysterD77]

Then it's a good thing that Denuvo is NOT DRM. It has been stated multiple times that the only DRM attached to Inquisition is Origin itself.

 

In my eyes, Denuvo is still a form of "DRM" - b/c it's still managing + restricting what rights the users has; what they can and cannot do w/ the digital files.

Hence the term + acronymn "Digital Rights Management."

 

Denuvo is not a classic form of disc-check DRM - like earlier CD-check versions of SafeDisc, Securom, Tages, StarForce, etc.

Denuvo is not a Internet-based activation DRM - like evolved forms of Securom + Tages used.

Denuvo is not a modern form of account-based DRM - like game-clients Origin + Steam.

Denuvo is a different breed - managing the EXE and what we can do w/ it...which is basically nothing that we can do with it.

 

Years down the road, when DA:I gets old - I'm betting some of us may like to be able to run DA:I - on the SP-side, at least. If EA + BioWare don't want to re-release it, don't keep it updated anymore, shuts down the MP servers, or whatever the case can be - which will happen when games get old, so then we have to find ways to make sure it can still run. Many older games - I can run on modern OS's b/c they've been modded, source-ported, or something of the sort. For example - Vampire: Bloodlines can be a royal pain to get going on Windows 7 + 8, before using any sort of mods; but b/c of mods, I can still run the game on Win 7+8.

[Giubba]

In my eyes, Denuvo is still a form of "DRM" - b/c it's still managing + restricting what rights the users has; what they can and cannot do w/ the digital files.

Hence the term + acronymn "Digital Rights Management."

 

Denuvo is not a classic form of disc-check DRM - like earlier CD-check versions of SafeDisc, Securom, Tages, StarForce, etc.

Denuvo is not a Internet-based activation DRM - like evolved forms of Securom + Tages used.

Denuvo is not a modern form of account-based DRM - like game-clients Origin + Steam.

Denuvo is a different breed - managing the EXE and what we can do w/ it...which is basically nothing.

 

Years down the road, when DA:I gets old - I'm betting some of us may like to be able to run DA:I - on the SP-side, at least. If EA + BioWare don't want to re-release it, don't keep it updated anymore, shuts down the MP servers, or whatever the case can be - which will happen when games get old - then we have to find ways to make sure it can still run. Many older games - I can run on modern OS's b/c they've been modded, source-ported, or something of the sort. For example - Vampire: Bloodlines can be a pain to get going on Windows 7 + 8, before using any sort of mods - b/c of mods, I can still run the game.

 

You do not have ANY form of rights over the source code or making alteration over the executable file of dragon age inquisition.

[Fredward]

You do not have ANY form of rights over the source code or making alteration over the executable file of dragon age inquisition.

 

I think s/he is saying s/he SHOULD have.

[Monica21]

I have a legit question because I'm dumb about these things.

 

If Denuvo is a check on the .exe, does it only do its thing on launch and then shut itself down after the game loads?

 

 

Check out most any State or City issued home security guide. The two best methods are Switch Timers for lights(So they'll turn themselves on and off automatically) and Security System stickers/signs (Regardless of whether or not the home actually has an alarm system) Barring either of these, leaving lights on in the home has a high rate of success as a deterrent.

There was also a University study done between a UK and US college I read back before purchasing my home, but i can't find it ATM, i'll keep looking.

 

Thank you. I tend to turn a deaf ear to people who throw around facts and numbers without any source, but I'm fairly certain I saw something like this in my mom's security system handout. But then again, I once had a house get broken into in broad daylight, but that's neither here nor there.

[Dreamer]

I have a legit question because I'm dumb about these things.

 

If Denuvo is a check on the .exe, does it only do its thing on launch and then shut itself down after the game loads?

 

 

 

Thank you. I tend to turn a deaf ear to people who throw around facts and numbers without any source, but I'm fairly certain I saw something like this in my mom's security system handout. But then again, I once had a house get broken into in broad daylight, but that's neither here nor there.

 

That's a very good question.

[MysterD77]

You do not have ANY form of rights over the source code or making alteration over the executable file of dragon age inquisition.

 

We likely wouldn't need full-blown Source Code or EXE Alteration Allowance until the game's considered old, being unsupported officially, & newer OS's can't run the game. Of course - that hasn't always stopped modders, has it?

 

Of course, if EA does keep supporting the game or later re-releases a newer edition of the game  - well, we won't have to worry about any of this.

 

EDIT:

I think s/he is saying s/he SHOULD have.

See above.

[Giubba]

I think s/he is saying s/he SHOULD have.

 

We likely wouldn't need full-blown Source Code or Alteration Allowance until the game's considered old, being unsupported officially, & newer OS's can't run the game. Of course - that hasn't always stopped modders, has it?

 

Of course, if EA does keep supporting the game or later re-releases a newer edition of the game  - well, we won't have to worry about any of this.

 

 

No he shouldn't .

[Monica21]

We likely wouldn't need full-blown Source Code or Alteration Allowance until the game's considered old, being unsupported officially, & newer OS's can't run the game. Of course - that hasn't always stopped modders, has it?

 

Of course, if EA does keep supporting the game or later re-releases a newer edition of the game  - well, we won't have to worry about any of this.

 

You do not have any rights over the game code. Bioware is not selling you the game, they are selling you a license that gives you access to play the game. They are not giving you ownership of it. That's what a license it. You're not buying a couch. You're buying bits of code that you didn't create. They can put SecuROM in there if they wanted to, because they want to protect what they created. Instead, they're using Origin as the DRM and Denuvo to manage the .exe. You have zero rights to anything that Bioware created, except to play the game as they intend you to play it. If you don't like that, then don't play the game.

[MysterD77]

You do not have any rights over the game code. Bioware is not selling you the game, they are selling you a license that gives you access to play the game. They are not giving you ownership of it. That's what a license it. You're not buying a couch. You're buying bits of code that you didn't create. They can put SecuROM in there if they wanted to, because they want to protect what they created. Instead, they're using Origin as the DRM and Denuvo to manage the .exe. You have zero rights to anything that Bioware created, except to play the game as they intend you to play it. If you don't like that, then don't play the game.

 

In the current time-frame - I have never had problems w/ Origin, Steam, UPlay, and other forms of game-client DRM. Actually, I think they're a lot more logical than the other DRM sets out there from the past, since they're just account-based and don't often do other weird things.

Boy, where to begin on DRM on StarForce - hehe....

 

To me, it seems overboard to have Denuvo tossed on top of Origin. That could hamper performance - and since it's relatively new, who knows whatelse Denuvo happens to be doing...especially since this is from those who worked on Securom.

 

Of course - BioWare + EA all going to do what they're going to do; and that's that. You either get with their program, or don't - I understand how it is. I bought Diablo 3 + RoS, despite it having always-online DRM; and I was able to solo the game all by my lonesome self. Wish I could play offline, but it has not been implemented.

 

The reason I talked about Source Code, EXE's, Mods - what I care about is the game being able to run years down the road, once support gets dropped from the game unofficially - which, in most cases, is inevitable. It would be nice if dev's and pub's, once a game's old and they don't want to maintain it anymore - to give the community support like that, once the company's tossed the towel in on supporting a said game.

[goishen]

Okay.   Look, not sure if this has been stated before, but...   Denuvo will produce an error and will stop the executable from running (I believe).  Call this DRM if you want to, but it's technically not.  It's not because it has no say in the rights management, only in the size of the file.  It's like splitting hairs here, but it really is an important one to be split.  Origin is the DRM.  

 

Now, in terms of cracking.  Cracking has been around forever.  Some of those people will crack games that they won't even play, just to say that they got to it first.

 

So don't hand this line of BS that DRM will only hurt the company.