119 réponses à ce sujet

[ShadyKat]

Seriously, why do you care? If you are buying the game, then how does drm hurt you? Sounds like you are pissing and moaning just for the sake of pissing and moaning.

[akabane_k]

Seriously, why do you care? If you are buying the game, then how does drm hurt you? Sounds like you are pissing and moaning just for the sake of pissing and moaning.

thats the definition of most game forums.

[grumpymooselion]

Seriously, why do you care? If you are buying the game, then how does drm hurt you? Sounds like you are pissing and moaning just for the sake of pissing and moaning.

 

Actually this line of logic is confused. The only people DRM hurts are the legitimate buyers. Pirates, by definition, don't have to deal with it in any majority. Once one person, or a team, crack your game, it's then out there for countless people to play for free without the hassle of things like DRM. So when people tell you that the only people that actually have to deal with DRM in the majority, they aren't just selling you a line, they're telling you the truth.

 

DRM has come a long way. There were some very harmful, very draconian forms of DRM in the early days, and there still are. Origin . . . is . . . DRM, and it's not perfect. Something goes wrong with Origin, you can't access your games. That's a problem the legitimate user has to deal with. It's a problem the majority of Pirates don't have to deal with, because only a minority of the Pirates actually cracked the games - but every legitimate consumer has to deal with any brand of flaw that DRM might bring. Those flaws are not a constant, each form of DRM brings their own, some greater (you can only install our product X amount of times and never again!), some lesser (using up a few extra system resources than if the DRM was not there) and many in between and outside of those extremes.

 

Will DRM be an issue in DA:I? Most issues with what is DA:I's DRM, Origin, tend to be about connection and stability, Origin's or your own, being iffy or failing. The lack of connection prevents you from playing your games at times. On Origin's end, when it (rarely) happens, it's a problem for any game a legitimate buyer is using that uses Origin as its DRM. On the user end? Anything can happen to your connection. Anything and everything under the sun, your fault, your ISP's fault, construction near your lines, weather taking out lines and any number of countless things under the sun.

 

Problems can and will crop up. They aren't the end of the world, but anything that turns your hobby, a time for fun and relaxation, away from the stresses and work in your life, into something annoying or frustrating? Not the end of the world . . . but never a good thing either.

 

DRM is going to be a problem for users. Sometimes just a few legitimate users. Sometimes, and not all the time, unless it's a particularly nasty form of DRM. Rarely, but it happens, a lot will be effected. DRM is a solution to a problem that causes further problems, and does not always work in and of itself, often only working until someone figures out how to deal with it. There is no such thing as perfection in Humanity. There are always flaws in ourselves and what we create. Someone, and it only takes one, but there never is just one, looking to exploit those cracks? It's a matter of time and dedication.

 

That is not a lament that DRM is useless and only hurts legitimate users. It's just a fact. The majority of pirates will never have to deal with DRM. All legitimate users will have to deal with DRM. Some DRM is worse than other DRM. Sometimes things go wrong with DRM or on the user's end. Countless factors come into play. Things are never simple. EA isn't wrong for wanting to protect their property. Users aren't wrong for feeling annoyed when DRM goes wrong and messes with their hobby.

 

You could say the Pirates are what's wrong, but, the issue there is . . . they don't care. So the only people that are really wrong, outside of the times they get caught, will never have to deal with the consequences, and there will always be more of them. We have laws in society to deal with people that do illegal things, not because those laws actually stop the illegal things, but because we have to try despite the fact that crime never has gone away, and never will. We try to protect people, their investments and their money. Not because it's easy, nor because it will make crime go away years down the road. Fighting crime is an endless thankless battle. EA aren't fighting crime with DRM though, they're just . . . trying to put it off. It's understandable, even necessary, but make no mistake that the legitimate users feel the full force of the blow when that DRM goes wrong.

 

It's just a sad fact of how we are forced to deal with Piracy for now.

[dlux]

Actually this line of logic is confused. The only people DRM hurts are the legitimate buyers.

Speak for yourself.
 
I'm only going to feel pleasure in about 10 hours.   The pirates are going to be crying puddles of tears because of Denuvo. 

[grumpymooselion]

Speak for yourself.
 
I'm only going to feel pleasure in about 10 hours.   The pirates are going to be crying puddles of tears because of Denuvo. 

 

Not being able to play the game, the game crashing, the game running more slowly, the game having a limited number of installs, the game mistakenly labeling your game copy as stolen and many other issues (not written here for sake of time) are examples of issues people have run into with various forms of DRM over the years Sometimes worse. Sometimes less. These people were not feeling pleasure. These were problems caused by DRM. DRM can be done better, certainly, there are people out there playing games with DRM without issue, but that's not always the case - and it's always the legitimate consumer that feels these issues - not the pirates.

 

As for the pirates? DA:I will be cracked. All games are eventually cracked. Some sooner. Some later. Some much later. It's just a fact of life. DRM exists to put off piracy more than to prevent it. Only a minority of Pirates actually deal with cracking a game initially. The majority, as I already explained, never put any work into it, they likely don't even know how to do it. The vast majority of pirates just download the already cracked version provided by the minority.

 

As for Denuvo, Denuvo isn't DRM. Origin is DA:I's DRM. Denovu is anti-tampering software, most likely concerned with preventing cheating DA:I's multiplayer component via modifications to the .exe. Because it protects the .exe file it will be harder to pirate games that use it, but it's not this uncrackable DRM that some people seem to think it is.

 

In fact it will probably do more harm to modders that wanted to do something especially creative with the game, as, while many mods don't use or tamper with the .exe at all, you could look at some of the TES modding that's done, rare and special projects completely change up how the games  work and will alter or replace the .exe to do it, or have the game run through a new .exe entirely (an example of this is a mod for Morrowind that wanted to completely change up its combat, its basic gameplay style, it was an interesting mod - but required its own unique executable). There's more to it than that, and it certainly won't affect all potential modders (Frostbite will make modding hard enough as is, combined with no toolset), but it's another example of buyers and fans who wish to enjoy their game seeing more issue from something done to prevent a negative element than the negative element itself ever will.

[Aaleel]

Every time some sort of new idea comes out to deter pirates all I think about are games like Assassin's Creed II, where it all went to crap at release and Pirates were actually playing the game before the paying customers. 

[grumpymooselion]

Every time some sort of new idea comes out to deter pirates all I think about are games like Assassin's Creed II, where it all went to crap at release and Pirates were actually playing the game before the paying customers. 

 

I remember several incidents across various games that match up with that, it's never fun to realize you supported a company and were punished for it, rather than being rewarded, while the thieves get to play. I think Gabe Newell had it right when he talked about subjects like companies needing to compete with pirates, and rewar the legitimate customer rather than punish them for their honesty and willingness to support your products.

[craigdolphin]

My issue with Dunovo is that it's made by a company that I despise. The same bunch of people that made the Sony rootkit, and later SecurROM. SecuRom on Jade Empire destroyed an optical drive in my computer. I simply refuse to allow any software that Sony DADC have touched to get anywhere near my pc. I don't trust them as far as I could kick them.

 

I have issues with Origin too, but at least it's first party software and I know up front I'm dealing with the same company that makes the games. But Sony DADC are nothing more than scumbag parasites that suck dollars out of the gaming industry, harming customers, and bilking developers, while giving pirates an endless string of puzzles to solve. It infuriates me that EA's execs continue to financially contribute to their ongoing existence. For this reason, I will be buying DAI secondhand for console rather than new. I refuse to contribute even one cent towards products that come with DRM from the likes of Sony DADC.

[DooomCookie]

Every time some sort of new idea comes out to deter pirates all I think about are games like Assassin's Creed II, where it all went to crap at release and Pirates were actually playing the game before the paying customers. 

 

AC2 was very successful in deterring pirates.  It wasn't cracked for a while, and even then you had to fiddle about with servers.  It wasn't accessibly cracked for a month or so.

[dlux]

I admit that Securom was truly terrible. I hated it myself and always used no cd cracks back in the day.

 

But Denuvo isn't Securom. Not to mention that Fifa 15 runs like a charm. Nobody would even know that Denuvo is there if EA wouldn't have mentioned it in the EULA (except for pirates trying to crack the executable of course).

[Aaleel]

AC2 was very successful in deterring pirates.  It wasn't cracked for a while, and even then you had to fiddle about with servers.  It wasn't accessibly cracked for a month or so.

 

I don't think you understand what I was saying.  DRM should not prevent paying customers from playing the game.  AC2 was not fixed in a couple of days or even a week after release IIRC.  I remember not being able to play the game far after it came out.  The fact that it took them as long as it did o remove the requirements is ridiculous.

[MarchWaltz]

So will Denuvo cause my SP game to close if my internet goes out?

[Aaleel]

So will Denuvo cause my SP game to close if my internet goes out?

 

Doesn't Origin already cause that.

[darkblueglass]

Doesn't Origin already cause that.

 

Only for launching the game first time to activate it. 

After that, you can use Origin offline mode.

https://www.origin.c...to/offline-mode

[darkblueglass]

So will Denuvo cause my SP game to close if my internet goes out?

I don't think so.

 

What is the difference between DRM and Anti-Tamper?

A Digital Rights Management (DRM) system binds the game to a legitimate user account and allows the game to be played whenever and wherever the consumer wants to download and execute the game. 

Anti-Tamper stops the reverse engineering and debugging of the DRM solution, but has no effect or limitation on the legitimate consumer. Anti-Tamper is completely transparent to legitimate game buyers and does not in any way impose activation limits, install drivers, or require a gamer to be "always on."

[jboy732]

I don't expect the ****** suits in an EA board room that don't even play games to ever see this (pr care) but I need to vent.

 

It doesn't work...

 

Some dicks are going to pirate. That's just the way it is. But if your game doesn't suck many more will happily buy it. But if you also can't screw over your paying customers. I get that EA is a business and that's fine. Let the creative people create, and don't use DRM and you'll make money. It really is that simple.

 

EA, BioWare is really all you have left. Visceral is good too, but they're working on something dumb instead of what we all really want them to be working on. DRM is idiotic. It costs money, doesn't work, and alienates customers. This really doesn't make good business sense and more importantly it's wrong. I know people that buy a copy of a game but then play on a pirated copy just so they don't have to deal with this kind of crap. Keep this up, and you'll be lucky if people are kind enough to buy a copy before pirating.

 

Almost finished, before I go, I want to repeat myself to be very clear: IF THE GAME IS GOOD, PEOPLE WILL BUY IT. DRM ONLY HURTS YOU. I would have thought you had figured this out by now. It's really not a difficult to understand.

First off Bioware is extremely friendly to their community and THEY are the ones who read the BIOWARE forums in the FEEDBACK sections especially.

 

Second off it does work, Fifa 15 and Lord of the Fallen are yet to be pirated multiple weeks after their releases on the Denuvo thing.

 

Thirdly this most likely wont screw anyone over. Most people only know Denuvo because of Lords of the Fallen and its issues but it was present in Fifa 15 (Made by EA) and it works perfectly fine and is not pirated yet. Also dont you think the developers dont like seeing the game that they worked on for years plastered all over the internet for anyone to download for free. The sims franchise are some of the most pirated games out there and they are excellently made.

 

EA is huge and actually has a hell of a lot more than Bioware and they make the majority of their money off of EA Sports, but either way Bioware is owned by EA and given a lot of freedom from EA in the work they do.

 

The quality of a game doesnt determine whether it will be pirated: Skyrim, Sims 3, GTA IV. Its the quality of the gamer that determines it. You know what really hurts them, all the lost sales due to pirating thats what.

[DooomCookie]

I don't think you understand what I was saying.  DRM should not prevent paying customers from playing the game.  AC2 was not fixed in a couple of days or even a week after release IIRC.  I remember not being able to play the game far after it came out.  The fact that it took them as long as it did o remove the requirements is ridiculous.

 

I agree, I was just disagreeing with your statement pirates were playing before legitimate players.  From what I've heard, AC2 proved to be remarkably crack-resistant, particularly for an AAA title.

[Owlcapone]

Doesn't Origin already cause that.

You keep posting in threads like this while simultaneously having no idea what you're talking about. Seems like you know how to internet.

[WashclothRepairMan]

People who create an intellectual property and license that product to consumers, have a right to protect that intellectual property. In any way they like.

 

If consumers don't like it - they don't buy it. If they don't care - they buy it anyway. EA wouldn't be doing it unless they know that people will buy it anyway to the extent that it will turn the profit they want, balanced against the profit they would lose if they didn't. End of story.

 

That's the point, genius. People don't like DRM so they turn to piracy.

[Ponendus]

That's the point, genius. People don't like DRM so they turn to piracy.

 

That wasn't my point. My point was that EA likely made a calculated decision. They looked at how many people they will lose vs how many sales they will gain, and the answer came out 'use DRM'. So this thread title being 'DRM does not work' is just incorrect. For EA, it does. For you maybe it doesn't, but they don't care about you, and nor should they, because they are confident they will sell enough anyway. It's just sound business practice, its not a social agenda to screw anyone. Stick it to the 'man' if you like, but they really don't care if you do.