98 réponses à ce sujet

[AceHalberd]

Curious though; I got the impression from Qunari society they wouldn't really tolerate such things. Gay people, yes, because apparently everyone just visits the 'sex healer' to 'cure' that desire when they have it, but...they are a society rigidly defined by gender roles. There's no way around that. Women aren't allowed to fight (sans Ben-Hassrath sorts), and men aren't allowed to be priests. So...does this mean all transgenders in that society would have to become Ben-Hassrath, or get Qameked into adopting the traditional gender role? I don't believe the Qunari would allow a biologically female warrior to fight as a soldier because he identifies as a male, otherwise there's no point in having that gender segregation of theirs in the first place.

[JerZey CJ]

I doubt this term has a positive meaning among the qunari knowing how restrictive they are about sex and gender roles

I definitely don't get a negative vibe from it, I don't think Bull would use it if it did. It seems more neutral to me.

[Chari]

Women and men can have different roles in extreme cases but they themselves would be apparently very unhappy about it
Aqun-athlok does not seem to be a thing acceptable among qunari indeed though

[JerZey CJ]

Curious though; I got the impression from Qunari society they wouldn't really tolerate such things. Gay people, yes, because apparently everyone just visits the 'sex healer' to 'cure' that desire when they have it, but...they are a society rigidly defined by gender roles. There's no way around that. Women aren't allowed to fight (sans Ben-Hassrath sorts), and men aren't allowed to be priests. So...does this mean all transgenders in that society would have to become Ben-Hassrath, or get Qameked into adopting the traditional gender role? I don't believe the Qunari would allow a biologically female warrior to fight as a soldier because he identifies as a male, otherwise there's no point in having that gender segregation of theirs in the first place.

If I remember, I believe that exceptions can be made. IE, a warrior is generally a male role, but if a female was so proficient at it, she could become one, however, for all intents and purposes, she would be viewed as a "male" in the eyes of the Qun.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

 What I can't tell is if she is acting the part of a male or female, lol. He (she?) could pass for either, to my eyes.

[Chari]

I definitely don't get a negative vibe from it, I don't think Bull would use it if it did. It seems more neutral to me.

He is also very positive about sex for pleasure and gets along with even frigging Cole
He is not an example of an average qunari

[AceHalberd]

If I remember, I believe that exceptions can be made. IE, a warrior is generally a male role, but if a female was so proficient at it, she could become one, however, for all intents and purposes, she would be viewed as a "male" in the eyes of the Qun.

Then, again, what purpose does the gender segregation serve, and why did Sten kick up such a stink over women fighting - not insisting that it was unusual, but that it was 'not done'? I understand the DA Lore has been fleshed out much since the first game, but I can't help but think they're dropping the ball with what the Qunari actually are with things like this. You can't realistically have them have strict gender roles, yet be entirely fine if someone of that biologically excluded gender happens to have a personality/being/self identification compatible with the gender that would be allowed to take on that role. That's insane logic imo.

[Chari]

If I remember, I believe that exceptions can be made. IE, a warrior is generally a male role, but if a female was so proficient at it, she could become one, however, for all intents and purposes, she would be viewed as a "male" in the eyes of the Qun.

No. As far as I know women can become warriors but only if there is not enough men to fill the roles (during or after wars)
At best she can works as a smith or priest/healer among the warriors

[Mukora]

Well, Sten didn't insist that it was your biological sex was the reason you couldn't be a warrior. He even seemed pretty convinced that you must be a man.

 

So the qunari being A-Okay with transpeople doesn't seem that far-fetched to me.

[DeusGoddess5010]

I want him as a romance option for DA4 or at least to make a attempt with my female qunari

[Kierro Ren]

I actually thought they were calling Krem gay. Born a man, but lives like a woman or to put bluntly "He's the receiver."

[Chari]

Well, Sten didn't insist that it was your biological sex was the reason you couldn't be a warrior. He even seemed pretty convinced that you must be a man.

So the qunari being A-Okay with transpeople doesn't seem that far-fetched to me.

No. He plainly states that a woman can't be a warrior. And since the Warden is obviously both a woman and a warrior he finds it weird, impossible
Again, IB is no average qunari. Another qunari for example denies to even talk to us if our qunquisitor is a mage yet still talks to elven or human mage
IB doesn't have the same problem

[ladyoflate]

While it could mean that they are transgendered, you have to remember that Qunari society is rather restrictive, in that females "don't fight." They generally aren't considered warriors and Sten was even confused by a female Warden who was a warrior. "Aqun-Athlok" could just mean that Krem is a woman who fights, a generally "male" thing.

 

It's possible that while the Qun has incredibly restrictive roles for men and women, they also just accept that you are what you say are. As in, if a child that everyone thought was a boy goes 'No, actually, girl here' they just go 'oops' and switch them over to priest training or whatever. The Qun in general seems very mind-over-body (dying is considered an acceptable choice to escape your role, as opposed to a horrible choice, you know?), so it's possible that they as a culture just don't have the same hangups regarding trans people that we do.

 

Sten's cognitive dissonance re: the Warden would then be because the Warden is a warrior who is insisting that they are in fact female, not because of any assumptions regarding the Warden's genitalia.

[TheGusWho]

 What I can't tell is if she is acting the part of a male or female, lol. He (she?) could pass for either, to my eyes.

Really?

[Chari]

It's possible that while the Qun has incredibly restrictive roles for men and women, they also just accept that you are what you say are. As in, if a child that everyone thought was a boy goes 'No, actually, girl here' they just go 'oops' and switch them over to priest training or whatever. The Qun in general seems very mind-over-body (dying is considered an acceptable choice to escape your role, as opposed to a horrible choice, you know?), so it's possible that they as a culture just don't have the same hangups regarding trans people that we do.

Sten's cognitive dissonance re: the Warden would then be because the Warden is a warrior who is insisting that they are in fact female, not because of any assumptions regarding the Warden's genitalia.

I really doubt that a system which has an obligatory breeding program there is a choice of choosing one's gender
They might as well allow saarebas to choose not being a mage or let people choose their race
It probably means a person who goes against gender roles which also can include transgender folk

[ladyoflate]

I really doubt that a system which has an obligatory breeding program there is a choice of choosing one's gender
They might as well allow saarebas to choose not being a mage or let people choose their race
It probably means a person who goes against gender roles which also can include transgender folk

 

Except being a mage very much has an effect on the mind, what with the Fade connection thing.

 

And the reason they'd have a term for trans people at all, even with my posited mindset, is because it's something that would have to be noted for the breeding program. (As in, a man born with a vagina is still a man, but that's not going to do much good if you pair him up with someone else with a vagina. Not in a trans-automatically-means-exclusion-or-sterilization way, although we do know that not every Qunari participates in the breeding program)

[The Closet Geek]

Well, Sten didn't insist that it was your biological sex was the reason you couldn't be a warrior. He even seemed pretty convinced that you must be a man.

 

So the qunari being A-Okay with transpeople doesn't seem that far-fetched to me.

 

This.  I suspect Sten's confusion stems from the fact that you identify as female yet act in a male fashion.  If you identified as male then he'd accept you in a male role regardless of what actual bits you had under your clothes.

[Osena109]

Aqun Means Balance  Athlok Means worker  the mind the Earth  so Balance worker nothing to do with Gender 

[Chari]

Except being a mage very much has an effect on the mind, what with the Fade connection thing.

And the reason they'd have a term for trans people at all, even with my posited mindset, is because it's something that would have to be noted for the breeding program. (As in, a man born with a vagina is still a man, but that's not going to do much good if you pair him up with someone else with a vagina. Not in a trans-automatically-means-exclusion-or-sterilization way, although we do know that not every Qunari participates in the breeding program)

Sten plainly said that people don't choose who they are, so, ahem
Plus IB is a qunari who goes against many rules of his people. He treats Cole - demonic/spiritual being - as an actual kid and seems to treat mage qunquisitor just fine unlike

Spoiler

ArishokSten who refuses to even talk to us

[Mukora]

Sten plainly said that people don't choose who they are, so, ahem

You don't choose your gender.

[Chari]

You don't choose your gender.

Sex, gender, race, parents, heritage. And as a result - the role

[Mukora]

Sex, gender, race, parents, heritage. And as a result - the role

Right. But if someone has the wrong body for their gender, I don't think the Qun would just ignore that.

[ladyoflate]

Sex, gender, race, parents, heritage. And as a result - the role

 

Which we're not arguing with? We're arguing with the idea that the Qun would see trans people as choosing their gender. Which is not necessarily true and considering all current evidence absent of any previous assumptions about trans people, actually seems more unlikely than the idea we're positing.

[Chari]

Right. But if someone has the wrong body for their gender, I don't think the Qun would just ignore that.

Qun is a society in which individualism is sacrificed for the sake of efficency hence why they use breeding system and strict gender roles
Sure there're some exceptions but they're, well, exceptional

[ladyoflate]

Qun is a society in which individualism is sacrificed for the sake of efficency hence why they use breeding system and strict gender roles
Sure there're some exceptions but they're, well, exceptional

 

But it's not like they force redheads to dye their hair brown just because that's an unusual color. You're about as likely to be a natural redhead as you are to be trans, and from the Qun's perspective it can be considered just a bodily quirk. A woman's a woman if she says so, and she's a good Qunari if she stays within her role as a woman and doesn't fight. Genital configuration doesn't come into it.