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Staves do pathetic damage?


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#1
Mythanar

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With all skill damage being keyed off "X% weapon damage", I cannot help but notice the significant disparity between weapon types when it comes to that "weapon damage" basis. Before going into actual comparison, let's establish that skills are indeed calculated from weapon damage with some screenshots.

 

1st level dagger on 2nd level rogue (Highland dirk) does 32 damage per attack:
2i2bz4j.jpg

 

Indeed, his base attack does about ~30 damage on target, 2 gets absorbed by armor:

282g60g.jpg

 

 

And a skill (Twin Fangs) that does two hits for 400% weapon damage does post two damage numbers for 400% * 30 ~= 120 damage, minus armor:

ej90qt.jpg

 

With that being out of the way, let's compare mid-tier weapons and the base they provide for skill calculation purposes. This is a routine comparison of mid-tier weapons in the game, taken from recent Bioware PC gameplay footage:

 

Bow:

wssrh0.jpg

 

Dagger:

2em1ik7.jpg

 

Greataxe:

2w6wbkg.jpg

 

Staff:

2yz0i83.jpg

 

Notice that staff does only about 1/4 the damage of the greataxe. Since skills are calculated off weapon damage, and staves hit like wet noodles, it seems that given this kind of discrepancy, to match 200% weapon damage skill on warrior mage needs roughly 800% weapon damage skill.

 

Anyone else sees this or am I imagining things? Should throw off some of the skill theorycrafting going on here, no?



#2
bluebullets

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.

#3
bluebullets

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The only ability i know of that's high is the flame and Ice mines which do 1600% which is like 400 for a warrior assuming 1/4 weapon dmg.

Other than that its all lower%s like 200.

Mages are looking shittier and shittier.

#4
Dubstob

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Anyone have comparisons of a 1h and 2h of the same lvl?  



#5
ClassyUnicorn

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Sounds as if there is a little more to it then simply comparing DPS on weapons

 

https://twitter.com/...360674301677571


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#6
Mukora

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It's always been like this. Staves have been the weakest weapon type since Origins.

 

You're supposed to be casting spells as a mage, not autoattacking.


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#7
bluebullets

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It's always been like this. Staves have been the weakest weapon type since Origins.

You're supposed to be casting spells as a mage, not autoattacking.

abilities are based on weapon damage now.

The tooltips show "doing200% of weapon damage"
This means 200% of your staff damage.

#8
SerCambria358

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Great. Another reason to not look forward to dai

As opposed to the countless of reasons TO look forward to DAI


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#9
Mukora

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As been said 99 times in this thread, abilities are based on weapon damage now.

And?

 

Mages can also cast spells more often than rogues and warriors can activate abilities. In addition, I'm sure their spells are balanced to compensate.



#10
The Night Haunter

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The only ability i know of that's high is the flame and Ice mines which do 1600% which is like 400 for a warrior assuming 1/4 weapon dmg.

Other than that its all lower%s like 200.

Mages are looking shittier and shittier.

Yes, lets listen to the guy making hypothetical guesses rather than base our opinions off the actual game.

There are half-a-dozen Bioware streams with plenty of mages killing things rather well. There are many, many more unofficial videos on Youtube, many of which show mages kicking ass. 

 

Before you and the OP get all worked up maybe you should stop looking at things as you think they work out on paper, and instead look at reality.


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#11
ClassyUnicorn

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abilities are based on weapon damage now.

The tooltips show "doing200% of weapon damage"
This means 200% of your staff damage.

 

And then you have attributes effecting attack which also plays a role in determining damage.



#12
bluebullets

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And?

Mages can also cast spells more often than rogues and warriors can activate abilities. In addition, I'm sure their spells are balanced to compensate.


Do you have any quantifiable evidence to support this. Warriors and rogues get just as many trees. Each with4. passives and 4 activated.

#13
SerCambria358

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Yes, lets listen to the guy making hypothetical guesses rather than base our opinions off the actual game.

There are half-a-dozen Bioware streams with plenty of mages killing things rather well. There are many, many more unofficial videos on Youtube, many of which show mages kicking ass. 

 

Before you and the OP get all worked up maybe you should stop looking at things as you think they work out on paper, and instead look at reality.

At this point hes just going out of his way to dislike the game rather than just waiting a few days to get proper info instead of basing it on hypothetical criticisms 



#14
bluebullets

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At this point hes just going out of his way to dislike the game rather than just waiting a few days to get proper info instead of basing it on hypothetical criticisms


No. I'm going out of my way to dislike mages in the game based on quantifiable evidence.

#15
WillieStyle

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Ugh!  Mages regen mana MUCH faster than rogues and warriors regen stamina.   The game is designed such that warriors and rogues spend a larger portion of their time "auto-attacking" than mages.  Hence their skills hit harder but are used less often. 



#16
Lulupab

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And?

 

Mages can also cast spells more often than rogues and warriors can activate abilities. In addition, I'm sure their spells are balanced to compensate.

 

Indeed, lower cooldowns and only mages posses real crowd control spells with low cooldowns. It can be spammed, literally.



#17
Mukora

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Do you have any quantifiable evidence to support this. Warriors and rogues get just as many trees. Each with4. passives and 4 activated.

I'm not going to go trolling through streams and youtube videos gathering research data, if that's what you're asking.

 

But how about you look at all the reviewers and streamers and youtubers who played a mage, and the complaining they ''didn't'' do based on how powerful their class selection was? Or wait until people on this site have the game, and watch if they come back to ****** and moan about mages?



#18
Dubstob

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I was trying to figure out why anyone would play anything other than a KE for the last few days lol.   That 1000% dmg move on low cooldown, the fire doing insane %1600dmg and can add dot, ice 75-150% sec, KE spammable 300%.  Oh and THREE Cooldown reduction passives. It seems they are more about spamming high weapon damage % spells with extreme control rather than auto-attack dmg.

 

Seems like this is the balance.    



#19
bluebullets

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Indeed, lower cooldowns and only mages posses real crowd control spells with low cooldowns. It can be spammed, literally.


I'm not seeing lower cool downs. Except for KE. Mana regen, yeah maybe.

#20
Fredward

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Yeeeeaaaah... that's actually pretty troubling. I know mages are more capable of doing damage to many enemies at the same time and have other effects attached to their attacks but that's a really huge damage discrepancy even so. I LIKE my magical glass cannons. If all spell damage is based off of how much damage your staves do and they do so frickin little damage it seems like I won't enjoy rolling a mage as much as I used to.


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#21
The Night Haunter

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No. I'm going out of my way to dislike mages in the game based on quantifiable evidence.

I think you're confusing quantifiable evidence with hypothetical supposition. The two are actually mutually exclusive.


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#22
Lulupab

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I'm not seeing lower cool downs. Except for KE. Mana regen, yeah maybe.

 

The mage freeze can be used three times before rogue and warrior stun ability becomes ready. Oh and they don't deal any damage like the freeze spell nor they can be shattered.

 

Oh and more importantly its RANGED. you control the battlefield from a safe distance.



#23
bluebullets

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The mage freeze can be used three times before rogue and warrior stun ability becomes ready. Oh and they don't deal any damage like the freeze spell nor they can be shattered.


Look at damaging abilities please, not stuns.

Another thing is that mages probably have more burning and DOT damage than other classes. I haven't looked into bleeds or anything but i assume that probably helps mage dmg

#24
Dubstob

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Look at damaging abilities please, not stuns.

Another thing is that mages probably have more burning and DOT damage than other classes. I haven't looked into bleeds or anything but i assume that probably helps mage dmg

 

Im looking at the rogue/warrior dots and all of them combined don't even add up to one of the Mage's dots lol.

 

I say we wait and see for full game before judgement. 



#25
Travie

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Balanced for multiplayer.