Couple of things for consideration:
1. Mage abilities tend to have higher weapon % to damage dealt as well as tend to add debilitating effects.
2. Magical attacks ignore armor. This means that the damage is only reduced by elemental or magical resistances where rogues and warriors will be reduced by enemies armor as well as their ranged/melee defense.
Trust the Devs to have most of this balanced and if you don't well then don't play a mage I guess.
Couple of things for consideration:
1. Mage abilities tend to have higher weapon % to damage dealt as well as tend to add debilitating effects.
2. Magical attacks ignore armor. This means that the damage is only reduced by elemental or magical resistances where rogues and warriors will be reduced by enemies armor as well as their ranged/melee defense.
Trust the Devs to have most of this balanced and if you don't well then don't play a mage I guess.
I'm not so sure about number 2. I know I've seen spells bounce right off the huge shields of enemy templars.
Mages are squishy because they don't "need" heavy armor as they are most of the time out of harms way. Of course in this game they CAN wear heavy armor and also have barrier. You want them to also be the main damage dealers too? To each his own I guess, but that seems OP to me.
Guest_Lathrim_*
I'm not so sure about number 2. I know I've seen spells bounce right off the huge shields of enemy templars.
Arkey is theoretically correct.
Problem is, we don't have the actual resistance numbers to compare. Either BioWare creeps up to shed some light on the subject, or we'll have to rely on conjecture until the game releases. Personally fine with either.
In both previous titles, it was warriors who were underpowered. Severely.
Most powerful mage skill deals 1,600% of weapon damage + another 1,600% in DOT.
Necromancer deals 1,800% DOT for no mana.
Most basic Knight Enchanter skill ine melee deals 300% + strong bonuses against barriers and guard.
Mages have barrier, can 'teleport' around, they have fear inducing spells, crowd control and AOE damage.
Mages never dealt the highest damage, but almost all of their spells have area of effect (with warriors dealing damage to a very small area in fron of them).
They gonna be fine, believe me.
Trust the Devs to have most of this balanced and if you don't well then don't play a mage I guess.
Necromancer deals 1,800% DOT for no mana.
Wow....
The theory-crafting is really weak in this thread.
I see people confusing single attack dmg with DPS. (Hint: Staves have a higher rate of attack then 2H)
I see people comparing single target ability dmg to the dmg done on one target by a multi-target attack (Hint: Chain Lighting)
... completely neglecting that Warriors and Rogues have to deal with dmg reductions due to armor, which magic by-passes. Elemental resistances? Pfft.. just use a different staff and spells.
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Nevermind, there's just so little that's even close to correct in this thread.
It seems to me we've got a couple 'haters' throwing bad math around.
And as a min/maxer, I hate bad math 
I'm not so sure about number 2. I know I've seen spells bounce right off the huge shields of enemy templars.
You are correct in a way. Enemies with tower shields are designed to resist all frontal attacks. Magic and arrows bounce off while melee attacks deal a fraction (I believe 1/10th) of their normal damage. This has nothing to do with armor as far as the defensive stat is concerned but 'armor' that big shield and it affects all classes equally (just attack his butt yo).
Clearly if they're wearing heavy armor their damage and magic ability should be hindered..
Theres a reason Theres a circle of magi and not a circle of warriors. Mages are the most lethal and most squishy beings in thedas. They trade tenacity for raw power.
I totally understand what you're saying and agree, but when you make a video game, I believe it's the developer's intent to balance the classes so it doesn't feel like one is "better" than another. I see your other comment above about how you think trying to balance out the classes is a terrible solution.. again I see your point about giving mages super damage ability while making them vulnerable and the mage inside of me wants to agree with that... I just think they are going to be plenty powerful from what I've seen of gameplay video, especially Knight Enchanter.
I've seen the tree. I did not see a 1600% dot. The spirit thing only does like 200%
It does 150% per sec. * 12 seconds. So 1,800%.
Wow....
The theory-crafting is really weak in this thread.
I see people confusing single attack dmg with DPS. (Hint: Staves have a higher rate of attack then 2H)
I guess this addresses me as the OP. You can fault me for many things, but I did not confuse damage with DPS. Problem is, it is damage that is used for skill damage calculation, not DPS. And the rate of attack does not matter for skills that have cooldowns, which is almost all of them.
I see people comparing single target ability dmg to the dmg done on one target by a multi-target attack (Hint: Chain Lighting)
You do realize all two-handed attacks are AoE, right? They hit entire forward arc, and pretty far out at that.
... completely neglecting that Warriors and Rogues have to deal with dmg reductions due to armor, which magic by-passes.
True to a point, albeit both warriors and rogues have sunder abilities that help with armor.
Don't let the bigger number on the base weapon make you feel inferior. All I've seen was a lower value on the base weapon. And mages use pure elemental attacks so the affect is governed by elemental resistances not defense. An Enemy may have 100 Def but his fire resistance could be 30. Not to mention all the extra debilitations piled on top shock, panic, chill.
Weapons are powerful too. There no good reason it should be leaps and bounds behind magic. Thankfully that isn't a problem in this game.
I totally understand what you're saying and agree, but when you make a video game, I believe it's the developer's intent to balance the classes so it doesn't feel like one is "better" than another. I see your other comment above about how you think trying to balance out the classes is a terrible solution.. again I see your point about giving mages super damage ability while making them vulnerable and the mage inside of me wants to agree with that... I just think they are going to be plenty powerful from what I've seen of gameplay video, especially Knight Enchanter.
One thread I read... "Waaaah, Knight Enchanters are too OP! Nerf them!"
Literally the next thread I read... "Waaaah. Mages suck for damage! Nobody's going to play a mage! They suck!"
And so it begins.
This.
I saw this one stream where a guy switched between mage and warrior. KE was killing just as fast as Reaver, only the KE was halariously gaining hp(barrier) on each swing while the Reaver was losing hp on each swing. The KE didn't even use many spells I can only imagine if he had the crazy dots going on.
Speculation is good but we can't jump to conclusions and certainties until we play it fully.
Ke is an exception because of the damage,barrier stuff, the reduced cooldowns and spammable spirit blade.This.
I saw this one stream where a guy switched between mage and warrior. KE was killing just as fast as Reaver, only the KE was halariously gaining hp(barrier) on each swing while the Reaver was losing hp on each swing. The KE didn't even use many spells I can only imagine if he had the crazy dots going on.
Speculation is good but we can't jump to conclusions and certainties until we play it fully.
In all honesty, Who the heck used the staff instead of spells???
It makes sense to have low damage on the weapon if the spells have their own damage.
In all honesty, Who the heck used the staff instead of spells???
It makes sense to have low damage on the weapon if the spells have their own damage.
I guess this addresses me as the OP. You can fault me for many things, but I did not confuse damage with DPS. Problem is, it is damage that is used for skill damage calculation, not DPS. And the rate of attack does not matter for skills that have cooldowns, which is almost all of them.
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I wasn't addressing anyone in particular.
I just used a few things I saw as I skimmed the thread, don't remember who posted them.
But it doesn't really matter.
This whole thread is pointless, because we don't have nearly enough hard data for a proper job of number crunching out a good min/max.
As an example, one of the glaring omissions in this thread: Detonators.
We have no info on how the different detonators work.
And any guesswork on total damage potential is futile until we understand the differences between Eldritch (Mage), Precision (Rogue), and Impact (Warrior) detonators.
But, even without good data, lets look at Mage vs. Warrior detonators.
Mages can get 4 Eldritch dets. 2 in Spirit, 1 in Storm (top of tree) and 1 in Fire (top of tree).
KE spec gets a 5th, spamable, Eldritch det (Spirit Blade)
Rift gets an Impact det, with a 8sec CD.
Warriors have only 3 Impact dets.
2 in Shield and 1 in 2h, all deep in their trees. And they're mutually exclusive.
Now.. the Shield Warriors 2 detonators are both on 8sec CDs, so they can actually throw out a fair amount of dets. But, as is frequently pointed out, don't have as high a base weapon dmg as 2h.
But.. the 2H warrior that some folks seem to be scared will out damage their mage... Their only detonator is on a 24sec CD.
Bottom line:
Mages will be able to throw out many more detonations then a 2h Warrior.
And if combos in DAI are like the previous games, those combos are going to be a big damage boost.
I agree. I wonder if mages can weild swords.
A spell similar I think. Could be wrong, never followed the fighting aspect of DAI
I think shields can block staff projectiles. Not sure about spells thoughYou are correct in a way. Enemies with tower shields are designed to resist all frontal attacks. Magic and arrows bounce off while melee attacks deal a fraction (I believe 1/10th) of their normal damage. This has nothing to do with armor as far as the defensive stat is concerned but 'armor' that big shield and it affects all classes equally (just attack his butt yo).
I think shields can block staff projectiles. Not sure about spells though
To be more specific (at least, by my observation):
Staves have a 6 attack cycle.
The first 5 are each a single 'bolt' on a direct path that the shield can block.
The 6th fires 3 'bolts', each for full dmg, that travel on a wide arc and can go around the shield.
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