1144 réponses à ce sujet

[ElofValant]

DA:I has made one thing for sure: That the elves are the source of everything that is fucked up in Thedas!

That seems to be a major theme in many fantasy settings / games / etc.

 

WoW - it was the arrogance of Elves that caused all/most of their problems (they attracted / brought the attention of Burning Crusade, etc)

LotR - Elves helped craft the Rings of Power, Elves let human king walk off with The One Ring (should have stabbed him and tossed the corpse & ring into the lava), etc

 

So here's a key - anytime you see Elves in a world/story/setting... they will be the root cause of any/all/most bad stuff happening

[Ryzaki]

You apparently had nothing better to do since this is an elven support thread, although I see plenty of anti-elven people who refuse to allow anyone who likes the elves to talk in this thread. It's also not an issue of 'probably', since it can be explicitly pointed out by the Dalish protagonist that there are clans who let mages go with other clans (which is what Lavellan can say about his clan, and what Merrill's clan did as well), and Zathrian's clan ignored this to welcome Aneirin among them, and even teach him magic.

 

Did you even bother looking at the screenshots or you'd rather just refuse to admit you called me a liar unnecessarily? I usually respect you Lob but this is absurd.

 

Also I just posted that response in that conversation in those screenshots. "And what happens when no other clan needs an extra mage?" I'm surprised you need it spelled out that circles back to the dalish don't keep more than three mages in a clan bit so killing/abandoning is inferred but since you apparently need it spelled out like you're five there we go.

 

And then again with the variations in clans and some being more willing to be flexible. Which I already said. But bravo Lob. You really told me. That so disproved those screenshots right there. Yep.

 

Oh wait...it didn't.

 

But that's fine Lob. Because since I'm such a liar I'll be a rude spiteful one in this thread talking about all the bad dalish do (which is actually true but apparently LIES ALL LIES and statistics obv). So I suggest you deal with it. This bothers you so much I suggest you leave a public board. I made no personal attacks, I derailed no conversations. So yeah sorry that your thread isn't a bubble for just praising the awesome dalish.

 

Also this is an elven support thread not a dalish support thread buddy. I support the city elves just fine. It's why I picked the Orlais result that gave Briala the most influence. You want a thread that just waxes poetic about the dalish I suggest you make a dalish support thread.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

 

Sure. Your character wants to forgo being Dalish, and become Andrastian. I thought that was pretty clear from what you've been posting for months now, since you don't seem to like the Dalish. I know there are dialogue options for the protagonist to say that he or she believes in the Maker, so it looks like the developers accommodated your interest in having the main character make that transition.

 

That's one of the great things about RPGs; playing you character how you want to play it. I can't say with any certainty, of course, since my Lavellan Inquisitor followed the Creators, and I don't have much issue with Arlathan; the Dalish are the remnants of the Dales, not Arlathan. Admittedly, I played a more Merrill-esque elven Inquisitor who was curious about spirits and the Beyond, while still believing in the elven gods and the culture of the People, as well as caring about all the elves.

 

Did you romance Cassandra with your elven Inquisitor?

Well, I never planned on them being Andrastrian. That came after I realized the Exalted March against the Dales was against a culture that was trying to become basically an Elven Tevinter.

 

Still have to wear the "Property of" tattoo for most of the game which meant my character agreed with it enough for at least 45-90% of their life. 

 

They'll be romancing Solas so they can get the "Property of" stamp removed from their face, but they and Cassandra will be friends.

[LobselVith8]

Did you even bother looking at the screenshots or you'd rather just refuse to admit you called me a liar unnecessarily? I usually respect you Lob but this is absurd.

 

I don't think it's absurd to have an interest in an elven support thread being a place for people who like the elves, and not a place for people to express their contempt for them. I also care little about the respect of someone who decides to do what a plethora of other people have done for months, and that's derail the thread and alienate people who might have come to this thread as fans of the elves. I guess it's an absurd notion at this point.

 

Also I just posted that response in that conversation in those screenshots. "And what happens when no other clan needs an extra mage?" I'm surprised you need it spelled out that circles back to the dalish don't keep more than three mages in a clan bit so killing/abandoning is inferred but since you apparently need it spelled out like you're five there we go.

 

Vivienne asked that question. Aneirin already proves that all the clans behave this way since he was welcomed when they already had three mages, rather than killed; Merrill's clan certainty didn't, and Lavellan can say his clan didn't, either. Pretending as though this is a universal truth for all clans is the issue I have here.

 

And then again with the variations in clans and some being more willing to be flexible. Which I already said. But bravo Lob. You really told me. That so disproved those screenshots right there. Yep.

 

The actions of other clans, and the alternative dialogue options for Lavellan, disprove the notion that all clans behave the way that Vivienne suggested.

[LOLandStuff]

Lob, some people don't want to sing praises of your precious elves.

And don't you elf supporters have your own cult and shrine for that?

Stop trying to convert others to your twisted views.

[Br3admax]

 

 

Well, I never planned on them being Andrastrian. That came after I realized the Exalted March against the Dales was against a culture that was trying to become basically an Elven Tevinter.

 

Still have to wear the "Property of" tattoo for most of the game which meant my character agreed with it enough for at least 45-90% of their life. 

 

They'll be romancing Solas so they can get the "Property of" stamp removed from their face, but they and Cassandra will be friends.

 

Shouldn't this be in the Cass thread; that's where this conversation is supposed to happen, apparently?

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I don't think it's absurd to have an interest in an elven support thread being a place for people who like the elves, and not a place for people to express their contempt for them. I also care little about the respect of someone who decides to do what a plethora of other people have done for months, and that's derail the thread and alienate people who might have come to this thread as fans of the elves. I guess it's an absurd notion at this point.

People can be supportive of the Elves yet not support the Dalish. Maybe they see the best way of supporting the elves is to get them as far away from what the Dalish want to create or do as possible. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Shouldn't this be in the Cass thread; that's where this conversation is supposed to happen, apparently?

Well, the mod deleted my ontopic post that broke no rules while leaving Lob's offtopic posts which did up so I just wanted to be sure this didn't get deleted as well. 

[Ryzaki]

I don't think it's absurd to have an interest in an elven support thread being a place for people who like the elves, and not a place for people to express their contempt for them. I also care little about the respect of someone who decides to do what a plethora of other people have done for months, and that's derail the thread and alienate people who might have come to this thread as fans of the elves. I guess it's an absurd notion at this point.

 

 

Vivienne asked that question. Aneirin already proves that all the clans don't behave this way since he was welcomed when they already had three mages; Merrill's clan certainty didn't, and Lavellan can say his clan didn't, either. Pretending as though this is a universal truth for all clans is the issue I have here.

 

 

The actions of other clans, and the alternative dialogue options for Lavellan, disprove the notion that all clans behave the way that Vivienne suggested.

 

Yawn This is a elf support thread not a dalish support thread. You want a thread for just singing the dalish praises make one.

 

Which is simply flexibility. The line obviously wouldn't be a a hardline for all clans. Merely most it's a symbol of the fact that yes at a certain point the dalish felt too many mages were too much of a risk to the clan and in the sake of survival they'd abandon/kill the unnecessaries. Thus Vivienne's "for those who value survival sentimentality" line. But again you need this spelled out.

 

Except I just said some clans probably are more flexible on that matter than others so you coming at me calling me a liar was pointless and counterproductive.

 

The alternative dialogue options that pretty much get rebutted in the conversation itself? You do realize the alternate dialogues are literally "we send them to other clans." without a defense provided for what happens when no one else needs them. (Leading to the assumption that yes the too many mages restriction would apply in that case). One that stupidly says "they died free." and a third that pretty much asks what's her problem without a rebuttal.

 

That's fascinating. I thought they didn't minimize Vivienne's point at all.

[LOLandStuff]

So much for "Oooh, all elves had magic. Let's put our mages as leaders who have the purest blood and are descendents of the elite."

[LobselVith8]

Well, I never planned on them being Andrastrian. That came after I realized the Exalted March against the Dales was against a culture that was trying to become basically an Elven Tevinter.

 

I take it you are speaking for yourself, and not your character here? Arlathan isn't reflective of what actually happened in the Dales. No one knows the truth about the Dales. There's even a codex entry in Inquisition suggesting it was merely Orlais wanting to expand their empire, and using the conquest of the Dales as a stepping stone into Ferelden.

 

Still have to wear the "Property of" tattoo for most of the game which meant my character agreed with it enough for at least 45-90% of their life.

 

Well, your character was initially Dalish.

 

They'll be romancing Solas so they can get the "Property of" stamp removed from their face, but they and Cassandra will be friends.

 

I rather liked Cassandra, much more than I thought I would, although she seemed to persistently think my character was ordained by the Maker when my character made it clear that he followed his own gods, and wasn't divine. I'm surprised at how much my Lavellan Inquisitor got along with Solas. Conversations with him lead to me abandoning a run as an orthodox mage, and instead choosing a more Merrill oriented variant.

[Solas]

With all the revelations about elves, Lob, I'm curious to what your reactions to it all are. After gathering my mindblown scattered wits back together my first thought was "I wonder what Lobselvith will make of all this", lol.

[Ryzaki]

I have to admit the vallaslin being slave markings made me chuckle.

 

City elves in the city slaves to their shemlen masters but they at least don't have slave branding on their faces.

[LobselVith8]

Yawn This is a elf support thread not a dalish support thread. You want a thread for just singing the dalish praises make one.

 

It's a support thread. That's pretty much all that needs to be said.

 

Which is simply flexibility. The line obviously wouldn't be a a hardline for all clans. Merely most it's a symbol of the fact that yes at a certain point the dalish felt too many mages were too much of a risk to the clan and in the sake of survival they'd abandon/kill the unnecessaries. Thus Vivienne's "for those who value survival sentimentality" line. But again you need this spelled out.

 

No, I pointed out that all clans don't behave this way, and we're already privy to clans who don't.

 

The alternative dialogue options that pretty much get rebutted in the conversation itself? You do realize the alternate dialogues are literally "we send them to other clans." without a defense provided for what happens when no one else needs them. (Leading to the assumption that yes the too many mages restriction would apply in that case). One that stupidly says "they died free." and a third that pretty much asks what's her problem without a rebuttal.

 

Vivienne doesn't rebut the alternative dialogue, she simply refuses to listen when Lavellan says some clans don't kill or exile their mages (something he even points out to a former Dalish who was forced to leave her clan), and we already know Zathrian's clan welcomed a fourth mage into their midst; Ariane's clan may have as well, since they welcomed an elven Circle mage who fled the Circle. The notion that all Dalish behave this way is my issue of contention.

 

That's fascinating. I thought they didn't minimize Vivienne's point at all.

 

Vivienne talking about a culture she has only heard about, and getting corrected my a member of that culture, seemed to be the point with some of the dialogue. It's really up to the player to determine what kind of tribe Clan Lavellan is, of course, but that's part of the reason why I liked how the developers crafted the roleplay options. I got to tell Cassandra I wanted to return to my clan, I got to tell Josephine how I worked hard for food and how I missed my friends, and I had to keep reminding people that I followed the Creators, not the Maker.

[TheJediSaint]

I have to admit the vallaslin being slave markings made me chuckle.
 
City elves in the city slaves to their shemlen masters but they at least don't have slave branding on their faces.

They're still pretty, though.

[LOLandStuff]

Sure they welcomed her. She also had to compete for her position.

I'm sure those extras are pushing up daisies by now in the middle of nowhere forest.

[Ryzaki]

It's a support thread. That's pretty much all that needs to be said.

 

 

No, I pointed out that all clans don't behave this way, and we're already privy to clans who don't.

 

 

Vivienne doesn't rebut the alternative dialogue, she simply refuses to listen when Lavellan says some clans don't kill or exile their mages (something he even points out to a former Dalish who was forced to leave her clan), and we already know Zathrian's clan welcomed a fourth mage into their midst; Ariane's clan may have as well, since they welcomed an elven Circle mage who fled the Circle. The notion that all Dalish behave this way is my issue of contention.

 

Nope because one can easily support the city elves while disliking the dalish and they'd belong here just as much as someone who was the reverse or someone who liked both. You want a dalish support thread? Then make one. The dalish aren't the only elves.

 

*yawn*

 

No Lavellan doesn't. Lavellan says they send them to other clans. Full stop. That's what Lavellan says. S/he does not say they don't kill or exile the mages when the numbers are too high.

 

I'm not sure what he says to the former dalish because I didn't pick that option. But if you could provide some screenshots that'd be wonderful.

 

Zathrian's clan however is fair enough. You forget how he found her to begin with though? She clearly says the clan didn't want her there but Zath made an exception probably because of how she reminded him of his daughter.

 

It's not like that's solved by me later saying some clans probably were more flexible...wait...no it was. The limit is not a hardline thing in reality of course. There's always exceptions.

[LOLandStuff]

I have to admit the vallaslin being slave markings made me chuckle.

 

City elves in the city slaves to their shemlen masters but they at least don't have slave branding on their faces.

 

It's rather sad. City elves slaves at least have a master to whom they slave to, while the Dalish wear slave marking thinking it represents some gods they know nothing about...

[GreyLycanTrope]

I have to admit the vallaslin being slave markings made me chuckle.

Makes me wonder if there's anymore significance behind the term "Keeper" than we've initially assumed.

[Ryzaki]

They're still pretty, though.

 

Oh they are. I like the ones that just frame the eyes. They're quite pretty.

 

Still lulz worthy though.

 

It's rather sad. City elves slaves at least have a master to whom they slave to, while the Dalish wear slave marking thinking it represents some gods they know nothing about...

 

I probably would find it more sad if I didn't think of the flat ear remarks. Then I just laugh. My city elf girl would be rolling if she discovered this.

 

 

Makes me wonder if there's anymore significance behind the term "Keeper" than we've initially assumed.

 

Oooooh. Probably. Hopefully.

 

A mage slave in control of the normal slaves to give them a bit of influence and power and make them more loyal and split the slaves into factions? Sensible.

[draken-heart]

Honestly, I was tempted to go back to the Elven S&S DPS build. Reading this thread makes me glad I officially decided on the Qunari. The dalish seem blinded.

[TheJediSaint]

Makes me wonder if there's anymore significance behind the term "Keeper" than we've initially assumed.

Like keeping the slaves in line?

[LobselVith8]

With all the revelations about elves, Lob, I'm curious to what your reactions to it all are. After gathering my mindblown scattered wits back together my first thought was "I wonder what Lobselvith will make of all this", lol.

 

Well, it's Arlathan. My focus of interest tends to be more on modern Dalish, and the elves living under shemlen rule. I had fun playing as Revas, though. Roleplaying as a Dalish Inquisitor who loved his clan, followed the elven gods, became very good friends with Solas, appreciated his culture, and cared about all elves was a good experience. Solas even expressed that he felt that perhaps he was wrong about the Dalish because of the kind of person Revas was. Siding with Briala because he wanted to see the elves of Orlais prosper, and telling her she owed him nothing. Some of the auto-dialogue and paraphrasing was off, though, but I was less irritated about it this time around than I was with Hawke, perhaps because I enjoyed playing as a Dalish mage. Might try out Vashoth or Dwarf next, or perhaps try a more refined Dalish run, although I might change the character's vallaslin to one that's more suited to his personality; he wasn't really the militant, orthodox type I originally planned, after all.

[Cat Fancy]

I have to admit the vallaslin being slave markings made me chuckle.

 

City elves in the city slaves to their shemlen masters but they at least don't have slave branding on their faces.

 

I kind of hate this. For the record, I don't care one way or another about the Dalish, (I do think the hatred shown by some in this thread is over the top and uncalled for, though) and I don't like any tattoos. (face tattoos included) But I think this is an obnoxious twist. (tbf, quite typical of Dragon Age) What actual people, in real life, have marked themselves as slaves like this without realizing it? I mean, it's not that big a deal, it's just kind of annoying and eye-roll-worthy. Like how:

Spoiler

as far as I can tell, (maybe it changes by the end of the game) the side you don't pick in the mage-templar war becomes mindless husks who it's ethically permissible and necessary to completely annihilate. Just like in actual civil wars where that's the case. Whatever, Dragon Age writers.

 

TBH I still think city elves have the worse deal there. Like, yes, the Dalish don't know that the marking they wear on their face are slave markings, but they still aren't regularly raped and murdered with impunity by nobles. 

[GreyLycanTrope]

Like keeping the slaves in line?

Or just being a slave keeper for the master. Something similar to a master of horse I'd imagine but that's just speculation on my part of course.