1144 réponses à ce sujet

[Lulupab]

"Andrastian" has many meaning people. Anders was pure Andrastian as well. The Tevinters are Andrastian as well. The Inquisition is not related to the Chantry, in fact the chantry is the first enemy of Inquisition.

Most City Elves hate humans as much as the Dalish, they are powerless to do anything about it, most of the time that is.

Apart from a few exceptions, the city elves venerate the Dalish and honor them even though the Dalish do not feel the same about them.

[Br3admax]

"Andrastian" has many meaning people. Anders was pure Andrastian as well. The Tevinters are Andrastian as well. The Inquisition is not related to the Chantry, in fact the chantry is the first enemy of Inquisition.

Most City Elves hate humans as much as the Dalish, they are powerless to do anything about it, most of the time that is.

Apart from a few exceptions, the city elves venerate the Dalish and honor them even though the Dalish do not feel the same about them.

lol I like how pretty much everything except the first paragraph is wrong. The Inquisition is also the first ally the new Divine gains. So much for being unrelated and separate.  

[Lulupab]

lol I like how pretty much everything except the first paragraph is wrong. The Inquisition is also the first ally the new Divine gains. So much for being unrelated and separate.

The Chantry has to be spanked and members persuaded/replaced to support Inquisition, in other words the thousand year old corruption needs to be cleansed first.

The city elves do hate humans, see DAO. NO ONE calls them humans, they all call them shemlen and hate them. Also see how people treated Marethati.

[Br3admax]

So what you're saying is Shemlen is in fact a racist term? Good to know. 

[Lulupab]

So what you're saying is Shemlen is in fact a racist term? Good to know. 

 

Semi-racist. The phrase "you are not welcome here shemlen" is my main point but whatever.

[Br3admax]

Semi-racist isn't a thing. Something either is or it is not. 

[Xilizhra]

Semi-racist isn't a thing. Something either is or it is not. 

"Shemlen" isn't by itself racist. What makes it racist or not is the context of its usage.

[TK514]

If Lob were here, he'd tell us that the word 'shemlen' is not racist, but the diminutive 'shem' is.  I know this, because he's used that as a defense when people called Merrill's clan racist in the past.

[Dark Helmet]

If Lob were here, he'd tell us that the word 'shemlen' is not racist, but the diminutive 'shem' is.  I know this, because he's used that as a defense when people called Merrill's clan racist in the past.

 

Which is #21 on his list of copied responses in case anyone was wondering.

[Roamingmachine]

Which is #21 on his list of copied responses in case anyone was wondering.

 

As an answer to standard-issue bait #13  it fits rather well, don't you think? Or you don't think we haven't seen all of these arguments before?

[TheJediSaint]

Shemlen is as much a racial slur as knife-ear is. To say it's not is being dishonest.

[Lulupab]

Shemlen is as much a racial slur as knife-ear is. To say it's not is being dishonest.

 

If you can prove there as another word for human in elven tongue then that statement would be true. The word 'Shemlen' is probably older than the human race itself.

[Dark Helmet]

As an answer to standard-issue bait #13  it fits rather well, don't you think? Or you don't think we haven't seen all of these arguments before?

 

Bait #301 actually.

 

Do try to use the proper listing.

 

Anyway I kind of feel bad for the elves. Well not the ancient elves or the Dalish but the City Elves still have it rough and aren't being hilariously sore losers about everything.

[TheJediSaint]

If you can prove there as another word for human in elven tongue then that statement would be true. The word 'Shemlen' is probably older than the human race itself.

I don't have to prove anything. The statement is self-evident.

[Roamingmachine]

Bait #301 actually.

 

Do try to use the proper listing.

 

Anyway I kind of feel bad for the elves. Well not the ancient elves or the Dalish but the City Elves still have it rough and aren't being hilariously sore losers about everything.

 

I allways get those two mixed up, sorry about that.

City elves have it rough yeh, but Briala and her organization offers a bit of hope that they have had enough. Kinda like how Lagertha dealt with her second husband in The Vikings only done in proper Orlesian fashion     They might not be the defiant survivors that the Dalish are, but they have some fighting spirit left in them yet it seems and i can respect that.

[Shadow Fox]

People people can we try not to get this locked too?

[Dean_the_Young]

If you can prove there as another word for human in elven tongue then that statement would be true. The word 'Shemlen' is probably older than the human race itself.

 

While I certainly agree with the second sentence, I see no relevance with the first. Whether the elves have another word for human in the elven tongue or not, the one they do use is a patronizing pejorative often treated as a slur with a superficial contraction.

 

Having no respectable or even neutral word in a language does not mean that a chosen shorthand is somehow more respectable. The Dalish elves could have chosen some other word(s) to use instead (perhaps whatever the elven for 'The Other People' is, to distinguish from 'The People'), could have invented a new word, or done what most other languages do and accept whatever a group identifies itself by as a loan word. There is no reason 'human' can't be the formal and informal term for all elves to use: the only advantage 'Quick Children' has is to delegitimize humans as children and not adults in a way that is never applied to elves.

[Chaos17]

Just go read the wiki, people since your memory seems not accurate instead of bickering.

http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Elf

 

1) Elves should recent blood magic because that magic allowed humans from Tevinter to over power them.

2) Their gods didn't helped the elves because Fen'rael betrayed them since he sealed them away. (well that's a rumor).

3) Then Andraste stood up for them and freed the enslaved elves from Tevinter.

4) Years later, after being freed the elve refused to be converted by the chantrie religion so it ended up into and exalted march againt them.

5) The elves lost their new home (Halamshiral) and were force to live as nomads or in slums of humans cities.

 

Halamshiral is the name of city where the ball is hapening in the city in DA:I if I'm correct.

God, that's just awfull...

[Roamingmachine]

While I certainly agree with the second sentence, I see no relevance with the first. Whether the elves have another word for human in the elven tongue or not, the one they do use is a patronizing pejorative often treated as a slur with a superficial contraction.

 

Having no respectable or even neutral word in a language does not mean that a chosen shorthand is somehow more respectable. The Dalish elves could have chosen some other word(s) to use instead (perhaps whatever the elven for 'The Other People' is, to distinguish from 'The People'), could have invented a new word, or done what most other languages do and accept whatever a group identifies itself by as a loan word. There is no reason 'human' can't be the formal and informal term for all elves to use: the only advantage 'Quick Children' has is to delegitimize humans as children and not adults in a way that is never applied to elves.

 

The Dalish are unlikely to use a foreign term when a usable one exist in their native tongue and are not predisposed to being polite towards humans. When they want to be diplomatic they speak common. I guess if they wanted to, they could fabricate a new elven word but that would require a marked improvement in relations across thedas. Then again, when a Dalish says 'shemlen' and a city elf does the same the underlying meaning is a bit diffrent even if the sentiment can be the same: To the Dalish shemlen is the word that means humans, simple as that. Sure, they might attatch quite a bit of venom to the term but its not really diffrent than when someone says 'american' with a scornful tone. Now, when a city elf uses the term its a slur and since its not in their native tongue, which is whatever language dominates the area they live in, i suspect it has to do with elven pride. Something to remind them that they are a people with history and not 'lessers' of the humans.

[Dean_the_Young]

The Dalish are unlikely to use a foreign term when a usable one exist in their native tongue and are not predisposed to being polite towards humans.

 

 

Congratulations: you just justified calling black people ******. It's a word of an established language for people not predisposed towards a certain population group. It's also a highly insulting term all the same- authenticity is not a substitute for legitimacy.

 

Actually, I'll admit that's a bit unfair. You didn't justify it, since there's nothing in there that could be considered a justification at all. It's more of a rationalization of laziness and malintnet.

 

 

When they want to be diplomatic they speak common. I guess if they wanted to, they could fabricate a new elven word but that would require a marked improvement in relations across thedas.

 

The only requirement for Dalish using a new word is that someone comes up with it and Dalish use it. This requires absolutely no foreign involvement, as it is a completely internal dynamic.

 

 

Then again, when a Dalish says 'shemlen' and a city elf does the same the underlying meaning is a bit diffrent even if the sentiment can be the same: To the Dalish shemlen is the word that means humans, simple as that. Sure, they might attatch quite a bit of venom to the term but its not really diffrent than when someone says 'american' with a scornful tone.

 

You're conflating tone with meaning. 'American' isn't a derogatory term- it has no other simultaneous meaning that conflates two connotations, one of them loaded. Shemlen does- calling people children is a direct insinuation that they are not (and can not be, if they are already grown) mature adults.

 

 

Now, when a city elf uses the term its a slur and since its not in their native tongue, which is whatever language dominates the area they live in, i suspect it has to do with elven pride. Something to remind them that they are a people with history and not 'lessers' of the humans.

 

 

Trying to elevate themselves above humans by calling them children doesn't make a slur not a slur.

[Dean_the_Young]

Just go read the wiki, people since your memory seems not accurate instead of bickering.

 

 

The irony and charming faith in wiki reliability offsets the poor grammar and passive aggressive tone. I'm liking this post, because it's funny.

[Addai]

I'm guessing this is not one of those "nice" elven gods.

 

[Roamingmachine]

Congratulations: you just justified calling black people ******. It's a word of an established language for people not predisposed towards a certain population group. It's also a highly insulting term all the same- authenticity is not a substitute for legitimacy.

 

Actually, I'll admit that's a bit unfair. You didn't justify it, since there's nothing in there that could be considered a justification at all. It's more of a rationalization of laziness and malintnet.

 

The only requirement for Dalish using a new word is that someone comes up with it and Dalish use it. This requires absolutely no foreign involvement, as it is a completely internal dynamic.

 

You're conflating tone with meaning. 'American' isn't a derogatory term- it has no other simultaneous meaning that conflates two connotations, one of them loaded. Shemlen does- calling people children is a direct insinuation that they are not (and can not be, if they are already grown) mature adults.

 

 

Trying to elevate themselves above humans by calling them children doesn't make a slur not a slur.

 

And here i thought we were having such polite discussion and friendly discussion, tsk,tsk....

 

So once again. Shemlen is the original word for humans and to the Dalish it means exactly that with the tone dictating if its throw as an insult or not. No if's, no buts. Even if humans take offense of the term regardless of the intent it was spoken in, why would the Dalish care? Their language and culture>human sensibilites in their view and the humans have never given them reason to think otherwise.

 

And that last part of your post? You might want to read what you quoted more closely. You american

 

Toodle pip!

[Lord Surinen]

Ancient Elves were almost a divine beings. I wish to see a good explanation for their downfall in the future games. The only thing I wish to see more is an enslavement of the lesser races, especially the shemlen of Tevinter stock.

 

Ancient Elves' fashion is superb [if you, dear concept artists see this post then don't hesitate and create more ancient elven robes for the upcoming dlcs]

[Roamingmachine]

I'm guessing this is not one of those "nice" elven gods.

 

*snip*

 

The statue? No. It's death motif which leads me to believe that place is dedicate to Falon'din.Looks Arlathan-era too. He and his brother Dirthamen seemed to have the creepiest clerics...