1144 réponses à ce sujet

[Roamingmachine]

Ancient Elves were almost a divine beings. I wish to see a good explanation for their downfall in the future games. The only thing I wish to see more is an enslavement of the lesser races, especially the shemlen of Tevinter stock.

 

Ancient Elves' fashion is superb [if you, dear concept artists see this post then don't hesitate and create more ancient elven robes for the upcoming dlcs]

 

Thats what i've found so interesting about the Arlathan revelations. The top tier of ancient elves were allmost magic made flesh. Gods unto themselves. That society created marvels unheard of since their time. What we've seen is but a tiny scratch of that society. Beings to whom time was meaningless and to whom power was the coin of the realm. And they were snappy dressers too, yes

 

Though hold the slavery bit. I think a good suckepunch will do ,thankyou very much

[Lord Surinen]

Thats what i've found so interesting about the Arlathan revelations. The top tier of ancient elves were allmost magic made flesh. Gods unto themselves. That society created marvels unheard of since their time. What we've seen is but a tiny scratch of that society. Beings to whom time was meaningless and to whom power was the coin of the realm. And they were snappy dressers too, yes

 

Though hold the slavery bit. I think a good suckepunch will do ,thankyou very much

Exactly and this is why I can't wait to see the truth.

 

Thedas is too small to burden the taint of shemlen. Lesser races' population should be drastically limited or completely extinguished. in order to reestablish Elvhenan in its free magick reign. Slavery seems like a fine transition in the process of cleansing. Terra and bio forming should follow afterwards.

[Ianamus]

I have a question for the thread:

 

In the final battle with Corypheus when he claims you are both fighting for godhood there is a top-left dialogue option with a star that (I assume) comes from what religious statements your Inquisitor made in the past. My Inquisitors option was the "I don't believe in gods" one but I was wondering if it's possible to get one relating to the elven gods instead? 

 

I tried to play an Inquisitor whose faith in their gods waned as the game went on but went up again after the temple of Mythal, but I think their religious views just ended up being an inconsistent mess. It's something I want to fix in my next playthrough.

[EmissaryofLies]

City elves don't kill mages for not having anywhere to go,they don't cling to the past and pervert their own understanding of it,they don't have sticks so far up their own asses they use them as backbones


The city elves are far and away better than the Dalish

 

They do like their riots. Not that they aren't inspired. They do like to call people shem.

They "excell at poverty", being enslaved, and never quite make it anywhere...You call that "far and away better than the Dalish"?

 

Whatever floats your boat I guess.

 

Either way, the Dalish is where it all began and they remain the most important part of the race.

[Xilizhra]

While I certainly agree with the second sentence, I see no relevance with the first. Whether the elves have another word for human in the elven tongue or not, the one they do use is a patronizing pejorative often treated as a slur with a superficial contraction.

 

Having no respectable or even neutral word in a language does not mean that a chosen shorthand is somehow more respectable. The Dalish elves could have chosen some other word(s) to use instead (perhaps whatever the elven for 'The Other People' is, to distinguish from 'The People'), could have invented a new word, or done what most other languages do and accept whatever a group identifies itself by as a loan word. There is no reason 'human' can't be the formal and informal term for all elves to use: the only advantage 'Quick Children' has is to delegitimize humans as children and not adults in a way that is never applied to elves.

I don't think "shemlen" does. "Durgen'len" translates as "stone children" or "children of the stone," and it's hardly saying that someone isn't an adult to say that they're the child of something. Since dwarves don't live any longer than humans, I don't think that the "len" as used to describe other races connotes immaturity.

[Dean_the_Young]

And here i thought we were having such polite discussion and friendly discussion, tsk,tsk....

 

I've seen how you interact with others. Direct engagement is the politeness, and friendliness, that you warrant.

 

 

 

So once again. Shemlen is the original word for humans and to the Dalish it means exactly that with the tone dictating if its throw as an insult or not. No if's, no buts.

 

Yes if's, and's, and but's. Shemlen isn't the original word for 'human'- it was originally the word for 'quick children,' which was later used synonymously with 'human' as a slur. The term was adopted to be used towards Humans, not originally intended or created for them.

 

Sort of how '******' means is derived from the word for 'circle,' but used for 'Jew' by some people.

 

 

Even if humans take offense of the term regardless of the intent it was spoken in, why would the Dalish care? Their language and culture>human sensibilites in their view and the humans have never given them reason to think otherwise.

 

No one is suggesting the Dalish care that they use a slur. Rather, the fact that they don't care about using a slur is simply one of the contemptable xenophobic and self-destructive elements of their culture. Which matters not a whit to the Dalish, except in so much that their xenophobic cultural expressions are self-destructive yet entirely within their own ability to change.

 

As for thinking their culture > human sensibilities, that would be far more persuasive if they had any clue what 'their culture' even was. As it is, cultural relativism and validation of beliefs is irrelevant to whether their common term for discussing humans is pejorative in nature or not.
 

[Roamingmachine]

I've seen how you interact with others. Direct engagement is the politeness, and friendliness, that you warrant.

 

 

Yes if's, and's, and but's. Shemlen isn't the original word for 'human'- it was originally the word for 'quick children,' which was later used synonymously with 'human' as a slur. The term was adopted to be used towards Humans, not originally intended or created for them.

 

Sort of how '******' means is derived from the word for 'circle,' but used for 'Jew' by some people.

 

No one is suggesting the Dalish care that they use a slur. Rather, the fact that they don't care about using a slur is simply one of the contemptable xenophobic and self-destructive elements of their culture. Which matters not a whit to the Dalish, except in so much that their xenophobic cultural expressions are self-destructive yet entirely within their own ability to change.

 

As for thinking their culture > human sensibilities, that would be far more persuasive if they had any clue what 'their culture' even was. As it is, cultural relativism and validation of beliefs is irrelevant to whether their common term for discussing humans is pejorative in nature or not.
 

 

Oh my, i am most honoured by your high praise. I do so enjoy our little chats

 

The word was assigned to humanity by the Arlathan elves. As you claim to know the original word, what was it? And once again, why would the Dalish change anything? Have they cause? Have the humans dropped their racism? Hate breeds hate, but don't ask the underdog to drop theirs first.  The olive branch needs to come  from those with the upper hand. As it stands, xenophoby is the only rational stance the elves can take.

 

As for their culture, the Dalish know their culture very well and its origin in the kingdom of the Dales. But i suspect you are referring to Arlathan.  Arlathan culture has nothing to do with the Dalish other than serving as a mythical, idealized banner to rally around. The actual culture was eradicated allmost completely long before the Dales came to be and the elven culture that followed was a new one built on fragments. All they really share with original Arlathan are the gods. Every culture has a mythical 'golden age' which they ever strive to restore. It gives people purpose. And in every case the truth tends to be less golden. That doesn't suddenly invalidate the culture.

[Steelcan]

no, those who are the underdogs have the duty to change people's perception.  The Civil Rights movement didn't take off because of white people protesting

[Xilizhra]

no, those who are the underdogs have the duty to change people's perception.  The Civil Rights movement didn't take off because of white people protesting

Actually, white people protesting helped it a lot. Especially when they started getting killed by the nastier racists, thus shocking white America.

[Steelcan]

Actually, white people protesting helped it a lot. Especially when they started getting killed by the nastier racists, thus shocking white America.

helped yes, but they weren't the start of the movement

 

sympathetic nobles could do wonders to help the City Elves, but for the Dalish, change is going to have to come from them

[Br3admax]

Can a shemlen go to sleep for a few hours without missing all the fun in this alienage? 

[Dean_the_Young]

 

The word was assigned to humanity by the Arlathan elves. As you claim to know the original word, what was it?

 

What are you talking about?

 

I never claimed the elves had an original word for Humans. I said the opposite. The elves didn't have an innate word for humans. They assigned pre-existing words which they use as a pejorative.
 

 

And once again, why would the Dalish change anything? Have they cause? Have the humans dropped their racism? Hate breeds hate, but don't ask the underdog to drop theirs first.  The olive branch needs to come  from those with the upper hand. As it stands, xenophoby is the only rational stance the elves can take.

 

 

In order-

I don't expect them to.

Yes.

Human racism is irrelevant to Dalish addressing Dalish xenophobia.

'Underdogs' have no special exceptions to being judged on the basis of xenophobic attitudes.

It doesn't, even if we ignore that the humans don't even see themselves as being in a race conflict and thus have no olive branch to give.

It really, really, isn't, unless rationality means ignoring how well it has worked out for them.

 

 

As for their culture, the Dalish know their culture very well and its origin in the kingdom of the Dales. But i suspect you are referring to Arlathan.  Arlathan culture has nothing to do with the Dalish other than serving as a mythical, idealized banner to rally around. The actual culture was eradicated allmost completely long before the Dales came to be and the elven culture that followed was a new one built on fragments. All they really share with original Arlathan are the gods. Every culture has a mythical 'golden age' which they ever strive to restore. It gives people purpose. And in every case the truth tends to be less golden. That doesn't suddenly invalidate the culture.

 

 

The Dalish believe their culture is Arlathan in nature. It's not merely an idealized past- it is the diminished present, with each relic and ritual they practice restoring it, and it is the desired future (which is little more than a hazy blur of that the Humans will somehow disappear and leave the elves to reclaim everything).

 

The fact that contemporary Dalish culture has almost nothing to do with Arlathan is a verdict of the outsider perspective which doesn't dip into the coolaid or whatever it is the Dalish drink. The Dalish cultural narrative is that Arlathan culture is reclaimable, with the Dalish being the guardians and maintainers of 'true' elven culture. City elves have 'forgotten,' contrasted to the Dalish who remember, recover, restore, and revere the old ways.

 

The invalidation comes from the reality that you describe- that the Dalish project of elven cultural restoration is fatally flawed because the Arlathan context (cultural, political, identity) is irrevocably lost and the Dalish practices which they claim as the True (Original) Elven Culture are really nothing more than often mis-informed reenactments.

[Meraxes]

I just met Sera with my elven Inquisitor and she pm just went 'EW AN ELF'

 

Gurl, what's your problem.

[TheJediSaint]

I just met Sera with my elven Inquisitor and she pm just went 'EW AN ELF'

 

Gurl, what's your problem.

Experience.

[Meraxes]

Experience.

Can't say I've had good ones with her so far.

[SovietCyborg]

Well, if the City Elves are partially inspired by how the Jews were treated during the Middle Ages, then they could learn the art of banking/usury and become filthy rich. Especially if the Chantry sees usury as a sin for some reason. 

[Br3admax]

Sera's cool people. She's annoying, Godly annoying. And her voice is almost as bad as Isolde's, but she's interesting and friendly. That's all you need to stay in Skyhold or gain my support.

[Meraxes]

Sera's cool people. She's annoying, Godly annoying. And her voice is almost as bad as Isolde's, but she's interesting and friendly. That's all you need to stay in Skyhold or gain my support.

But how many people is she, really?

[Xilizhra]

helped yes, but they weren't the start of the movement

 

sympathetic nobles could do wonders to help the City Elves, but for the Dalish, change is going to have to come from them

There were some along from the very beginning. It also helps that there were black people in important positions in wider society as well, albeit very few of them; it wasn't a matter of two entirely different cultures and societies trying to reconcile.

[Br3admax]

But how many people is she, really?

So far, I've seen four. 

[Dean_the_Young]

Well, if the City Elves are partially inspired by how the Jews were treated during the Middle Ages, then they could learn the art of banking/usury and become filthy rich. Especially if the Chantry sees usury as a sin for some reason. 

 

City elves are an ethnic, not religious, minority. If the Chantry had some religious opposition to interest like Islam, then most city elves would share that belief as much as most humans underthe Chantry.

[Meraxes]

Nice to see this thread is still a mess. The elves really do seem to inspire strong feelings.

[Dean_the_Young]

Nice to see this thread is still a mess. The elves really do seem to inspire strong feelings.

 

Elves are indifferent. Dalish are annoying.

[Meraxes]

Elves are indifferent. Dalish are annoying.

Ok.

[EmissaryofLies]

Sera's cool people. She's annoying, Godly annoying. And her voice is almost as bad as Isolde's, but she's interesting and friendly. That's all you need to stay in Skyhold or gain my support.

 

 

It was absolute torture in Origins; could not wait to unnecessarily sacrifice her with blood magic.