1144 réponses à ce sujet

[Addai]

Why should he be? At this moment in time, his interpretation has just as much merit and value as any other.

You really think Bioware's going to write a pseudo-Christian monotheistic story? Maybe, but I doubt it.There are plenty of hints that the Andrastians have got a lot wrong, too.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

So you do think there's a creator god in Thedas and he's Andrastian. I'd be prepared for disappointment.

Bioware have said they will never say if the Maker is real or not, so why should they prepare for disappointment? 

[LobselVith8]

Nope. It's the sum of Orlais being attacked by the Dales, and Orlais answering in kind. Not all of humanity. Just Orlais. They lost a war they started. The end. 

 

Which is a statement that is contradicted when you give the scroll to the Dalish, who concede that they were wrong to think humanity alone started the war, because they discover that the scroll reads how humans and elves were both responsible for what happened.

[Br3admax]

Which is a statement that is contradicted when you give the scroll to the Dalish, who concede that they were wrong to think humanity alone started the war, because they discover that the scroll reads how humans and elves were both responsible for what happened.

Lob, why do you keep spamming this without actually saying what the humans did wrong? I'm still waiting for the answer. I also fail to see how Orlais represents all of humanity. 

[Dean_the_Young]

Your petty forum resentments are ridiculous and have no point, besides cutting off the possibility of any sort of productive conversation.

 

Excuse me?

 

I say I won't belittle people who were revealed to have been wrong by new evidence, and this makes for petty forum resentments?

 

There's something ridiculous going on her, but I'm not sure what.

[Steelcan]

How were humans responsible?

Was it the chantry sister's fault for being too attractive?

[Addai]

Bioware have said they will never say if the Maker is real or not, so why should they prepare for disappointment?

Apparently finding out that you were wrong about a few things equals invalidation of an entire belief system.

We know the elven gods are real now, too.

[Steelcan]

Apparently finding out that you were wrong about a few things equals invalidation of an entire belief system.We know the elven gods are real now, too.

No we don't, we know entities using the same names as the Dalish pantheon existed, whether they were gods or just spirits is up for debate

[TK514]

Apparently finding out that you were wrong about a few things equals invalidation of an entire belief system.

We know the elven gods are real now, too.

Actually, all we know is that some of the entities with those names exist/existed.  Their actual nature is in question.

 

Edit:  Beaten to it.

[Hellion Rex]

You really think Bioware's going to write a pseudo-Christian monotheistic story? Maybe, but I doubt it.There are plenty of hints that the Andrastians have got a lot wrong, too.

Hardly. But we haven't been poking holes really in Andrastian history in DAI, now have we?

[Dean_the_Young]

 

The Dalish are not the only trade partners or the ones with travel routes. But when you put it that way.....

 

I agree. Hence why I said just closing off trade relations alone doesn't harm anyone. (Though enforcing those restrictions often does.)

 

 

 

 

Gonna need more details on this one.

 

The existence of border clashes and deaths is old stuff. There hasn't been much question here.

 

 

 

The Dalish were hardly under obligations to aid ORLAIS of all countries and its still not clear if the Dalish really could've intervened. Although if I were the Dalish, I would've fought the darkspawn anyway so nobody can claim the Dalish didn't do their part and so the Dalish can never let the humans forget their debt to the heathen "knife-ears".

 

 

But you weren't, and the Dalish didn't assist for the entire Blight, and whether they had a legal obligation to or not they certainly had a moral obligation to help when Orlais was fighting a world-threatening catastroph that would only have harmed the Dales had Orlais failed. But they very clearly didn't even try, and so instead of earning any sort of credit as a good neighbor they earned a very bad neighbor relationship.

 

Including, yes, even Orlais. Which at that time was hardly the boogeyman or sworn enemy of the Dales, because as far as we know the race-war mentality didn't even exist back then. (The Dales were clearly in an isolationist regime already, but tensions are only really noted after the Blight.)

 

 

 

Well you got me there.

 

 

Indeed.

 

Just to be on the record, I've always disputed that the Dales practiced religious freedom or allowed elves to freely leave. Neither of these are conclusively proven by this example, but so far the Dales aren't looking very good on respecting or protecting the religious or cultural freedom of the elves.

[LobselVith8]

Lob, why do you keep spamming this without actually saying what the humans did wrong? I'm still waiting for the answer. I also fail to see how Orlais represents all of humanity. 

 

It's a retort to the Orlesian side of the quest, that conspicuously omits any wrongdoing from the humans, while Keeper Hawen and his clan admit that their history was wrong because the scroll reads that the war was caused by actions committed by humans and elves, and they want to atone for the actions of their ancestors by giving a sacred gift to the town of Red Crossing as an olive branch.

 

Admittedly, I doubt it'll make a difference for some people. This thread is hardly an elven support thread anymore.

[Addai]

No we don't, we know entities using the same names as the Dalish pantheon existed, whether they were gods or just spirits is up for debate

If that distinction matters to you. IMO, it's irrelevant.

Actually, all we know is that some of the entities with those names exist/existed. Their actual nature is in question.

I never said otherwise.

[Dean_the_Young]

So you do think there's a creator god in Thedas and he's Andrastian. I'd be prepared for disappointment.

 

Hey, there's already the possibility that the first Old God Baby was Andraste. If that fan theory pans out, then we already have an Old God who was a monotheis. Why not an elven deity as well?

[Hellion Rex]

Hey, there's already the possibility that the first Old God Baby was Andraste. If that fan theory pans out, then we already have an Old God who was a monotheis. Why not an elven deity as well?

Hold up. Do you put stock in that theory, Dean?

[TK514]

If that distinction matters to you. IMO, it's irrelevant.

I never said otherwise.

 

There's a significant difference between saying "Bob was a god" and "A charismatic and powerful guy named Bob existed".

[raging_monkey]

It's a retort to the Orlesian side of the quest, that conspicuously omits any wrongdoing from the humans, while Keeper Hawen and his clan admit that their history was wrong because the scroll reads that the war was caused by actions committed by humans and elves, and they want to atone for the actions of their ancestors by giving a sacred gift to the town of Red Crossing as an olive branch. Admittedly, I doubt it'll make a difference for some people. This thread is hardly an elven support thread anymore.

you shpuld know elves and theirs are quickly silenced and ot turns into a elf bash XD

[LobselVith8]

Hardly. But we haven't been poking holes really in Andrastian history in DAI, now have we?

 

There are the debates over Corypheus talking about the Golden City being black and there's the Dalish side of "The Knight's Tomb". It's not as though Inquisition doesn't shine a light on all the groups making some significant mistakes - mages, templars, Seekers, the Chantry, the Dalish, el. ect. Every group has it's fair share.

 

The Exalted March on the Dales is also addressed to have malevolent people on the Chantry side of the war, like Ser Mhemet, who has a codex that reads: "Ser Mhemet, a Rivaini templar, fought in the Exalted March of the Dales for one reason: his love of killing elves, which pushed him to so many victories, the Chantry elevated him to Anointed after his death. To this day, Halamshiral elves consider his name a curse."

 

Quite simply, Inquisition made it clear that no group is perfect, every group is flawed, and that there's some hope for positive change with everyone - human, elven, dwarven, and qunari. In the spirit of the elven support thread, an elven Inquisitor seems to change the minds of some people for the better, as do the actions of Clan Lavellan for the city-state of Wycome.

[Br3admax]

It's a retort to the Orlesian side of the quest, that conspicuously omits any wrongdoing from the humans, while Keeper Hawen and his clan admit that their history was wrong because the scroll reads that the war was caused by actions committed by humans and elves, and they want to atone for the actions of their ancestors by giving a sacred gift to the town of Red Crossing as an olive branch.

 

Admittedly, I doubt it'll make a difference for some people. This thread is hardly an elven support thread anymore.

Again, what did humans do wrong to start the war? Stop dodging and answer the question. The Dalish dodging are one thing. You on the other hand are an outside party with access to all available information. 

[LobselVith8]

you shpuld know elves and theirs are quickly silenced and ot turns into a elf bash XD

 

Which is unfortunate. One of the nice things about the narrative with an elven Inquisitor is unification - bringing distinct people together for a common cause.

[Hellion Rex]

@Lob, I was gonna edit my post but I'm on my phone. I was gonna clarify about Corypheus.

[Addai]

There's a significant difference between saying "Bob was a god" and "A charismatic and powerful guy named Bob existed".

What you see in the temple is "some guy"? I saw a powerful spirit, which is another way of saying... a god. One who's supposed to be dead, I might add.

[EmperorSahlertz]

How were humans responsible?

Was it the chantry sister's fault for being too attractive?

DAMN SEXY HUMANS!! Starting wars wherever they go... How dare they?!

[raging_monkey]

Which is unfortunate. One of the nice things about the narrative with an elven Inquisitor is unification - bringing distinct people together for a common cause.

im a mage/elven supporter fully but DAI has given me much to process and my moral foundation is shaken(regarding the series).

Elves are considered easy hate fodder and then add this kinda makes it hard to keep my stance somewhat

[EmperorSahlertz]

im a mage/elven supporter fully but DAI has given me much to process and my moral foundation is shaken(regarding the series).

Elves are considered easy hate fodder and then add this kinda makes it hard to keep my stance somewhat

Elves aren't hated. DALISH are hated. There is a significant difference. One that Dalish supporters spectacularly often fail to realize