1144 réponses à ce sujet

[Br3admax]

Ya'll are just lazy.

Pretty much. 

[Dean_the_Young]

Would you accept the idea that the Dalish should be allowed to keep their current religious, cultural and magical systems without human interference as a prerequisite for some kind of reconciliation between them?

 

No.

 

No party, especially not Dalish leaders, has any ethical right to deny all Dalish elves all contact with all humans under all conditions, which is an implicit requirement for the inverse condition to be fulfilled.

Such an arrangement would not be feasible to enforce in practice,

Such an arrangement is legally unworkable and is far too vague on what constitutes 'interference.'

Such an relationship would not be a healthy relationship that could be called reconciliation.

Such an arrangement focuses on human interference into Dalish activities without considering the ways that current Dalish religious, cultural, and magical systems can and sometimes do interfere with humans.

 

 

I have no interest in endorsing or enforcing a Dalish hermit kingdom for cultural elitists to play around with the lives of others elves in. Which is what your proposal actually amounts to.

[Dean_the_Young]

Guilty.

 

 

True.

 

 

Pretty much. 

 

 

Well, that was quick.

[Xilizhra]

No.

 

No party, especially not Dalish leaders, has any ethical right to deny all Dalish elves all contact with all humans under all conditions, which is an implicit requirement for the inverse.

Such an arrangement would not be feasible to enforce in practice, and is far too vague on what constitutes 'interference.'

Such an relationship would not be a healthy relationship that could be called reconciliation.

Such an arrangement focuses on human interference into Dalish activities without considering the ways that current Dalish religious, cultural, and magical systems can and sometimes do interfere with humans.

To clarify on "interference:" neither party can enforce its laws about magic or intermarriage or what have you on the other, in addition to standard rules about not attacking each other. Basically, it's "don't threaten to force Dalish Keepers into the Circle and don't try to forcibly convert anyone," though the former might not be a problem anymore.

[Hellion Rex]

Ya'll are just lazy.

More like I'm on a phone whose browser crashes frequently in the middle of a great and insightful long post.

And I'm a little lazy lol.

[Dean_the_Young]

To clarify on "interference:" neither party can enforce its laws about magic or intermarriage or what have you on the other, in addition to standard rules about not attacking each other. Basically, it's "don't threaten to force Dalish Keepers into the Circle and don't try to forcibly convert anyone," though the former might not be a problem anymore.

 

Considering that Dalish clans are already willing to throw out their mages into the wilderness to into desperate conditions prone for abominationhood... no, I don't intend to condone or legitimize Dalish mage practices. The known history indicates that Dalish mage practices are far riskier towards human settlements than human mage policies have been towards Dalish.

 

Nor would I do the Dalish the disservice of pre-emptively censoring missionary activity to give Dalish who might be interested a dialogue and an option. Which seems to be a common interpretation of what 'forcibly converting' means. You'll have to find someone else to deny the Dalish religious freedom.

[Xilizhra]

Considering that Dalish clans are already willing to throw out their mages into the wilderness to into desperate conditions prone for abominationhood... no, I don't intend to condone or legitimize Dalish mage practices. The known history indicates that Dalish mage practices are far riskier towards human settlements than human mage policies have been towards Dalish.

So if the Dalish would attempt a reconciliation, you'd rather try to forcibly reform their magical practices? Clearly we can see that history isn't the only thing holding this back.

 

 

Nor would I do the Dalish the disservice of pre-emptively censoring missionary activity to give Dalish who might be interested a dialogue and an option. Which seems to be a common interpretation of what 'forcibly converting' means. You'll have to find someone else to deny the Dalish religious freedom.

What I'm referring to is doing anything at all to make any Dalish religious practices illegal or Andrastian ones mandatory. And you would not, then, oppose Dalish missionaries speaking of the Creators in Andrastian society either?

[Steelcan]

I'd like to point out that I am not a slacker like these others, but my linguistic skills pale in comparison to those more versed in Internet arguments...

After 17k posts you'd think Id have the hang of it

[raging_monkey]

I'd like to point out that I am not a slacker like these others, but my linguistic skills pale in comparison to those more versed in Internet arguments...After 17k posts you'd think Id have the hang of it

ikr lol

[Lulupab]

People saying because mythal existed doesn't make him a god but the maker is. The maker couldn't take minrathous. The city's history says the city has survived siege of humans, elves, Qunari and the maker himself.

 

Human religion is not any more validated than elven religion. They are pretty much on same level.

[Br3admax]

No one said the Maker was validated, we said Dalish beliefs were invalidated and incorrect. 

[raging_monkey]

No one said the Maker was validated, we said Dalish beliefs were invalidated and incorrect.

still not getting how? Im a broad thinker break it down for me lol

[Steelcan]

still not getting how? Im a broad thinker break it down for me lol

. Mythal wasn't a "god" likely a spirit that body hopped like Flemeth does, therefore the Dalish pantheon is invalid, therefore the religion is invalid

[raging_monkey]

. Mythal wasn't a "god" likely a spirit that body hopped like Flemeth does, therefore the Dalish pantheon is invalid, therefore the religion is invalid

ah i see the arguement now thought we were talking about pies lol

But really whats the difference between a "god" and "great spirit". My exp on the subject is D&D based to its not appicable

[G. Recruit]

Imho if the Elves are to survive they must adapt and be given power and rights same as any race. The Dailish have much wrong as Solas has rightfully pointed out. I'm currently playing a Dailish Sword and Shield warrior. In my mind my character was one who while holding respect for his clan knew that he was different and was not one to shun others. And I had a conversation with Solas in which I said the Dalish didn't make me. I am who I am.

[Steelcan]

ah i see the arguement now thought we were talking about pies lol
But really whats the difference between a "god" and "great spirit". My exp on the subject is D&D based to its not appicable

a god would be able to create new worlds and beings, spirits can't

[Br3admax]

Exactly. Spirits can only manipulate the Fade around them, but they cannot create and they cannot grow. 

[raging_monkey]

a god would be able to create new worlds and beings, spirits can't

then by that logic is possible that their faith isnt invalid as more inaccurate? Perhaps they revered these spirits in some sense and due lost historical text filled in the gaps?

Not arguing which is right more making a inquiry or two... maybe several

[Br3admax]

The basis of their religion is also wrong. Fen'harel is treated as some sort of trickster and traitor who killed off or imprisoned their entire pantheon, for instance. Mythal was no great mother goddess, just another possessed woman who branded her followers in blood ink. 

[raging_monkey]

The basis of their religion is also wrong. Fen'harel is treated as some sort of trickster and traitor who killed off or imprisoned their entire pantheon, for instance. Mythal was no great mother goddess, just another possessed woman who branded her followers in blood ink.

ah again im still leaning toward inaccuracy than invalidation. To the dalish its still valid. Perhaps im missing something details

[JeosDinas]

Gave up nearly all my approval with Sera events at a certain temple in the Abor Wilds in this run. Loads of Dalish pride here. What we know about the old ways might be hazy but tradition matters, no matter how much it might have shifted from the times it originated in.

[myahele]

I thought Dalish valued mages, but apperanlty not. They'd just let a kid wander in the wilderness to fend of themselves, most likely to die or worse

[Master Warder Z_]

I mean if he's going to go through the effort anyway...

I admit he's a bit better at it...

[Steelcan]

Bah at least I attempt to write my thoughts, inelegant as they may be in comparison

[Reznore57]

I doubt the Dalish gods were simple "spirits" , Mythal was murdered ...and a few codexes describe some of them as something very close to dragons.

Some of them were cruel and some were corrupted by something, Mythal was fighting her own.

 

Spoiler

From what we saw between her and Solas , they did something , probably locked the "gods " away to restore peace ...

It's possible Mythal turned against her own children , she is a goddess of justice and vengeance afterall , I imagine she was killed because of that...or she was tricked , who knows.

Anyway it seems Fen Harel and her were allies and after all those events happened , The Dread Wolf went to sleep , what was left of Mythal was so pissed off , it survived through the ages until she met Flemeth, and the elven empire fell to pieces.

 

Something changed in the elves , they did lost their immortality and their wonderful magic , I assume that's linked to what the "gods" did , and possible people panicked and priests began fighting each others , and well they probably sunk Arlathan in some desperate attempt to get their gods back.