30 réponses à ce sujet

[thanotos omega]

We get 3 fairly boring Defense boosts and 1 really helpful and fun Bonus ability point,

 

I just can't help but feel this is lopsided, After all, Melee defense is only good for Archers and 2 out of 3 mages if they are doing badly, Ranged and Magic defense is more universally useful, But still no where near as good as a free ability,

 

The only way for 3 of the 4 races to make full use of their bonus is to build tank. and even then it may not add up to a extra passive ability worth of benefit,

 

I would like to see a change made, to either give all races the bonus point, while disabling their defense bonus, Remove it from humans and replaced with a defense bonus, or all race traits being made more unique,

[andy6915]

I disagree, those passive defenses will always be useful. That extra ability probably won't end up as useful in the end.

[thanotos omega]

I disagree, those passive defenses will always be useful. That extra ability probably won't end up as useful in the end.

Again Archers and a good chunk of mages shouldn't need a melee defense boost, and there are some great passives that a human can pick up to more then make up the difference, where as only tanks really benefit from bonus that need good armor to remain relevant,

[HTTP 404]

Again Archers and a good chunk of mages shouldn't need a melee defense boost, and there are some great passives that a human can pick up to more then make up the difference, where as only tanks really benefit from bonus that need good armor to remain relevant,

 

not if you are a knight enchanter Qunari! 

 

But I see what you are getting at.  I do feel like the game encourages you to use certain races with certain classes.

[thanotos omega]

not if you are a knight enchanter Qunari! 

 

But I see what you are getting at.  I do feel like the game encourages you to use certain races with certain classes.

I have been saying most mages wouldn't benefit, but haven't said all, allowing for the Knight Enchanters,

 

This is a good chunk of my complaint, Just as Origins heavily pushed the Shield/Duel Wielding trees for all warriors, this game feels like it is pushing everyone but humans(Who already enjoy the largest amount of use) to be specific things, mostly tanks, 

[Gwydden]

not if you are a knight enchanter Qunari! 

 

But I see what you are getting at.  I do feel like the game encourages you to use certain races with certain classes.

I thought DAO did this?

 

The obvious choices then seemed to be human rogue, elven mage, and dwarven warrior.

[HTTP 404]

I thought DAO did this?

 

The obvious choices then seemed to be human rogue, elven mage, and dwarven warrior.

 

I wasn't even thinking about DAO when I made my comment.  but yah I agree with you.  I think at the end of the day, the bonuses are just what they are "bonuses"  I am pretty sure gear and skill upgrades more than make up for it.  The game won't be harder if you chose to be a Qunari Archer or a warrior elf.

[thanotos omega]

I wasn't even thinking about DAO when I made my comment.  but yah I agree with you.  I think at the end of the day, the bonuses are just what they are "bonuses"  I am pretty sure gear and skill upgrades more than make up for it.  The game won't be harder if you chose to be a Qunari Archer or a warrior elf.

It's less about difficulty and more about balance, The Humans are being set up the same way as the Reguards were in Morrowind, They are by default the best and most fun, since their trait offers better power and versatility, and everyone else's bonus can be out scaled,

 

Humans already enjoy the highest pick rate among races, This is just adding icing on a cake, You could give them no bonus and they will still have more people playing them then the other 3 combined, making them also the default most fun and versatile is just over kill, Even more so when the others have boring stat bonuses that require good gear to be useful,

[Gothfather]

 a warrior elf.

 

I think this is a strong tank. A tank that can taunt achers without having to pull them with a chain or run up to them to keep them from buring down health. This is a nice advantage i think.

[Sully13]

S what im going for at any rate.

[HTTP 404]

It's less about difficulty and more about balance, The Humans are being set up the same way as the Reguards were in Morrowind, They are by default the best and most fun, since their trait offers better power and versatility, and everyone else's bonus can be out scaled,

 

Humans already enjoy the highest pick rate among races, This is just adding icing on a cake, You could give them no bonus and they will still have more people playing them then the other 3 combined, making them also the default most fun and versatile is just over kill, Even more so when the others have boring stat bonuses that require good gear to be useful,

 

I don't disagree with you. 
 

[Mirrman70]

we could always just go back to only being being human like DA2...

[thanotos omega]

we could always just go back to only being being human like DA2...

That is a pointless attempt to distract from the issue however minor, There is no justification for one race getting a universally neat and useful bonus while the others get situational bonus of questionable merit,

 

If these were flat damage reductions that may be useful if still boring and of little notice, if one didn't choose a play style that follows it,

[Augustus Tirion]

That is a pointless attempt to distract from the issue however minor, There is no justification for one race getting a universally neat and useful bonus while the others get situational bonus of questionable merit,

 

If these were flat damage reductions that may be useful if still boring and of little notice, if one didn't choose a play style that follows it,

The human bonus is useful???

Not in my opinion.

Sure, that 1 skill point may be nice at the very start of the game. But not in the long run.

The more you level, the less that 1 point means. While the resistance bonuses, effectively, keep getting stronger because the enemies you face will be doing more damage, so that natural resistance% is also preventing more.

[Fast Jimmy]

It's less about difficulty and more about balance, The Humans are being set up the same way as the Reguards were in Morrowind, They are by default the best and most fun, since their trait offers better power and versatility, and everyone else's bonus can be out scaled,

 

Humans already enjoy the highest pick rate among races, This is just adding icing on a cake, You could give them no bonus and they will still have more people playing them then the other 3 combined, making them also the default most fun and versatile is just over kill, Even more so when the others have boring stat bonuses that require good gear to be useful,

 

Gah. This MMO-obsessed mindset, that every possible class-race-ability combination must be equal, is killing RPGs.

 

This isn't PvE, this isn't a competition about who can max/min DPS and it isn't a contest to make playing the game equally easy for everyone despite any random hodge podge of choices they make.

 

Yes, a Qunari makes more sense as a warrior. For seven foot tall giants raised from birth to fit their caste, is this surprising? Dwarves are naturally resistant to magic due to exposure to lyrium: this is lore based and shouldn't be tweaked with for balancing reasons.

 

Being able to make a weak character, either on purpose or by accident, should be an option. Game balance is totally irrelevant in a single player game. If we err on the side of in-game realism from the lore, these differences and imbalances would be even MORE polarized, not less.

[thanotos omega]

Gah. This MMO-obsessed mindset, that every possible class-race-ability combination must be equal, is killing RPGs.

 

This isn't PvE, this isn't a competition about who can max/min DPS and it isn't a contest to make playing the game equally easy for everyone despite any random hodge podge of choices they make.

 

Yes, a Qunari makes more sense as a warrior. For seven foot tall giants raised from birth to fit their caste, is this surprising? Dwarves are naturally resistant to magic due to exposure to lyrium: this is lore based and shouldn't be tweaked with for balancing reasons.

 

Being able to make a weak character, either on purpose or by accident, should be an option. Game balance is totally irrelevant in a single player game. If we err on the side of in-game realism from the lore, these differences and imbalances would be even MORE polarized, not less.

Less about balanced power and more about one race gets some thing super cool that the others don't despite already having the highest pick rate and an entire game to them selves, But this is not a huge issue, either balance or remove it, nothing would be lost either way, But one Race shouldn't be default best especially not one that already get's picked more then the others, This is no different then the toning down Mages needed after Origins, where they rendered all other classes redundant outside of picking locks,

 

The whole game has to be balanced around every race/class, and as it stands Humans get the better feature by a mile, this will skew data and could lead to the race select being removed again, Humans are already the only Race with a major background variation. making them more replayable then the others, But on an even more basic level, it's just not fair that one guy gets some thing cool and everyone else gets a lame samey bonus,

 

They should at least get something interesting to show it off, Like Qunari being immune to grabs, Elves having higher jumps that remove the need for the climbing animation, some thing more then some numbers you will most likely never even notice,

[berrieh]

I think the human bonus seems the most "instant gratification" one, but I don't think it's the best one. In fact, I think all the other choices are perhaps less versatile but more useful. This fits with typical D&D style racial bonuses - humans are usually versatile, by nature, in most settings, and DA fits that. 

 

Qunari - You're right that the 10% bonus to melee defense is less useful for archers and perhaps most mages (it's still useful for dual-wielding rogues, knight enchanter mages, and definitely any kind of warrior) but it's very useful to several builds, much moreso than an extra ability point. If you are building a tank, you're going to be tempted to at least consider a Qunari or Dwarf due to their bonuses, if you care about bonuses at all. 

 

Dwarf - The 25% magical resistance is a huge boon. There is going to be a lot of magic damage going around if demons and mages are both potential enemies, and magic can hit at range and fly freely before your tank (if you use one) gets control of the field. The bonus is going to help a lot. 

 

Elves - 25% ranged is also nothing to sneeze at for any class. I think I read this includes magical ranged damage (not like runes/mines, but spells flung at you from a distance) and in that case, it's almost equally useful to the Dwarf thing, though runes/mines do seem to be a thing. 

 

Maybe you're so Boss at the game that no one but your tank will ever take damage, but I doubt that's the case for most players. The other bonuses will come in handy. 

[thanotos omega]

I think the human bonus seems the most "instant gratification" one, but I don't think it's the best one. In fact, I think all the other choices are perhaps less versatile but more useful. This fits with typical D&D style racial bonuses - humans are usually versatile, by nature, in most settings, and DA fits that. 

 

Qunari - You're right that the 10% bonus to melee defense is less useful for archers and perhaps most mages (it's still useful for dual-wielding rogues, knight enchanter mages, and definitely any kind of warrior) but it's very useful to several builds, much moreso than an extra ability point. If you are building a tank, you're going to be tempted to at least consider a Qunari or Dwarf due to their bonuses, if you care about bonuses at all. 

 

Dwarf - The 25% magical resistance is a huge boon. There is going to be a lot of magic damage going around if demons and mages are both potential enemies, and magic can hit at range and fly freely before your tank (if you use one) gets control of the field. The bonus is going to help a lot. 

 

Elves - 25% ranged is also nothing to sneeze at for any class. I think I read this includes magical ranged damage (not like runes/mines, but spells flung at you from a distance) and in that case, it's almost equally useful to the Dwarf thing, though runes/mines do seem to be a thing. 

 

Maybe you're so Boss at the game that no one but your tank will ever take damage, but I doubt that's the case for most players. The other bonuses will come in handy. 

The problem with the D&D comparison is, the other races have cool powers to make up for the forfeited favorite classes. Elves for example are immune to Sleep a common and very dangerous status effect, As noted above, i would mind less if they had cooler ones that will draw players into them, and help justify keeping race select in the series, Humans sell them selves by default, it's the others who need cool features and awesome back grounds to help get more people to try them out,

[10K]

I actually think Elves should've been granted with a 25% bonus damage when they're using bows. Given that the Dalish are renowned for their archery skills I think It would've made more sense. But hey, ranged defense is good too I guess

[thanotos omega]

I actually think Elves should've been granted with a 25% bonus damage when they're using bows. Given that the Dalish are renowned for their archery skills I think It would've made more sense. But hey, ranged defense is good too I guess

That would be way worse, Part of the issue is pigeonholing of races into certain classes, that would limit their bonus to one class and one weapon within that class,

[Augustus Tirion]

Less about balanced power and more about one race gets some thing super cool that the others don't despite already having the highest pick rate and an entire game to them selves, But this is not a huge issue, either balance or remove it, nothing would be lost either way, But one Race shouldn't be default best especially not one that already get's picked more then the others, This is no different then the toning down Mages needed after Origins, where they rendered all other classes redundant outside of picking locks,

 

The whole game has to be balanced around every race/class, and as it stands Humans get the better feature by a mile, this will skew data and could lead to the race select being removed again, Humans are already the only Race with a major background variation. making them more replayable then the others, But on an even more basic level, it's just not fair that one guy gets some thing cool and everyone else gets a lame samey bonus,

 

They should at least get something interesting to show it off, Like Qunari being immune to grabs, Elves having higher jumps that remove the need for the climbing animation, some thing more then some numbers you will most likely never even notice,

You have strange definitions of 'super cool' and 'better by a mile'.

Humans get the worst bonus.

 

As I've already said.

1 extra skill point, useful at the start. But mostly useless in the long run.

Damage resistance, useful for the whole game.

[thanotos omega]

You have strange definitions of 'super cool' and 'better by a mile'.

Humans get the worst bonus.

 

As I've already said.

1 extra skill point, useful at the start. But mostly useless in the long run.

Damage resistance, useful for the whole game.

The one point can be used to pick up a Passive skill or to get an upgrade for a skill, that's value exceeds a 10-25% defense boost,

 

But once again my issue is more with them being boring and not very good at drawing in the crowd,

[Gothfather]

Err does anyone else thing that the original poster have No clue that his ideas of whats cool and whats not are subjective? And that despite what he may believe his subjective opinion really doesn't amount to a hill of beans because someone will view this "situation" in a completely different light?

 

Wah wah wah Humans have too cool a racial ability.

 

Wah wah wah humans have a sucky racial ability.

 

I have seen both threads and both were under the illusion that this opinion was objective.

[Semipro]

Min/maxing is fun to a point, but DA games have always more or less showered you in gear that eventually made racial bonuses a gratuity at best after all is said and done.

 

I can't say I've ever played a dwarven warrior warden just because of that basic bonus to being a warrior. Human noble warrior always seems just a bit more appropiate to the storyline for me. But thats the point of Origins I guess, letting everyone decide what story works best for them.

 

Hopefully I'm just as enamoured with my Inquisitor and her companions as I was with my Warden. I don't really worry too much about a point missed here or there.

[thanotos omega]

Err does anyone else thing that the original poster have No clue that his ideas of whats cool and whats not are subjective? And that despite what he may believe his subjective opinion really doesn't amount to a hill of beans because someone will view this "situation" in a completely different light?

 

Wah wah wah Humans have too cool a racial ability.

 

Wah wah wah humans have a sucky racial ability.

 

I have seen both threads and both were under the illusion that this opinion was objective.

What will be more likely to draw in the casual player can be logically assumed, And logic dictates it will be the ability point, that has both obvious and responsive benefits, So i do feel my statements are based on Objective values, Not simply my own subjective opinions,