35 réponses à ce sujet

[Zafaron]

I've just read a little bit about Denuvo and how it is constantly changing the game's EXE file.  I'm concerned that this might quickly wear out my solid state drive.  Has any testing been done to verify that the continuous writes won't degrade the life of SSD drives?

[dlux]

Since the executable is loaded into the computer's ram while playing...

 

No.

[Neuromancer]

Oh jfc I'd scream if my ssd got hurt.

And what is this that exe is laoded into ram? God damn the hardware cmput course cannot come fast enough.

[AlanC9]

SSDs wear out?

[MarchWaltz]

SSDs wear out?

My thoughts exactly...how would an SSD wear out?

 

I know HDD's wear out...but SSDs?

[dlux]

SSDs do wear out. Google it.

[Zafaron]

SSD drives degrade in performance the more times they are written to.  So your temporary internet files and cache and temp files will degrade the performance of your SSD over time if you have those files saving to the SSD vs a HDD or Ramdisk.  There's a finite amount of writes for each sector of an SSD before the sector becomes unusable.

[Gill Kaiser]

My thoughts exactly...how would an SSD wear out?

 

I know HDD's wear out...but SSDs?

 

Yes. SSDs' bits degrade with every write and erasure.

[Barrett Rodych]

Early "generations"/models of SSD were indeed more prone to shorter lifespans from more constant use, but the latest ones are basically on par with normal drives from all I've heard. All the technical razzledazzle on them keeps escaping me though.

[Nzero]

Since the executable is loaded into the computer's ram while playing...

 

No.

Are we sure that the changes aren't written back to the drive everytime the exe (or other data) changes? It's almost exclusively writes that wear out SSDs, not reads.

 

 

Early "generations"/models of SSD were indeed more prone to shorter lifespans from more constant use, but the latest ones are basically on par with normal drives from all I've heard. All the technical razzledazzle on them keeps escaping me though.

I would add a caveat here that it really depends on usage. A traditional HDD will last a lot longer than even a modern SSD if there is heavy usage in terms of writes.

[AshesEleven]

Just saying that there are a few topics on this already.  

[Almostfaceman]

I've just read a little bit about Denuvo and how it is constantly changing the game's EXE file.  I'm concerned that this might quickly wear out my solid state drive.  Has any testing been done to verify that the continuous writes won't degrade the life of SSD drives?

 

I've got Samsung SSD's with 3 year warranties. So am I worried? *yawn*  Nope. 

 

[dlux]

Are we sure that the changes aren't written back to the drive everytime the exe (or other data) changes?

There is absolutely no point in using the slow memory (harddrive) to do what the fast memory (RAM) can do much more efficiently.

 

There is also absolutely no point in dynamically changing the executable on the harddrive. That would make about as much sense as dynamically changing the executable pressed on the DA:I DVD... which is impossible anyway.

[tacobelldog]

Early "generations"/models of SSD were indeed more prone to shorter lifespans from more constant use, but the latest ones are basically on par with normal drives from all I've heard. All the technical razzledazzle on them keeps escaping me though.

 

 I have 120gig samsung 840 series would you define that as an older model? I think if Bioware are gonna add shady drm software like Denuvo, the same monkeys that brought us SecuROM AND Sony rootkits. You would think Bioware would've addressed this before people started preloading the game. 

 

I just want to add that i find piracy deplorable

[affliction]

So many pointless Denuvo threads now

[Ponendus]

I'm fairly certain the game itself is much more likely to wear out and drives rather than a miniscule security measure...

[Monochrome Wench]

Windows doesn't allow the on disk executable file to be changed while a program is running. This will not be a problem.

[danielkrs]

I'll copy/paste a user's post from another forum. I'd love to see some comments from people with better technical knowledge than me.

"Resource monitors for RAM and CPU consumption numbers, memory viewer for trying to figure out what makes it tick and track address issues, SSD analysis tools for those delicious dead blocks and data tracking

Wanna know average number of times parts of LotF exe code are fcked around between RAM and HDD in the span of one hour? 150000 copy/write iterations. That's about 10000 times more than usual. DRM constantly decrypts the game code into the memory and encrypts it back. This is the most bullshit usage of encryption software I've ever stumbled upon. And even though code chunks are quite small(couple of kilobytes per go at worst), they are all stored in one memory block. And playing the game for 4-8 hours(depends on SSD quality) means that you can say goodbye to that block."

Here's a link to the post...

http://www.rpgcodex....55#post-3599880

[escapePlan]

I'll copy/paste a user's post from another forum. I'd love to see some comments from people with better technical knowledge than me.

"Resource monitors for RAM and CPU consumption numbers, memory viewer for trying to figure out what makes it tick and track address issues, SSD analysis tools for those delicious dead blocks and data tracking
Wanna know average number of times parts of LotF exe code are fcked around between RAM and HDD in the span of one hour? 150000 copy/write iterations. That's about 10000 times more than usual. DRM constantly decrypts the game code into the memory and encrypts it back. This is the most bullshit usage of encryption software I've ever stumbled upon. And even though code chunks are quite small(couple of kilobytes per go at worst), they are all stored in one memory block. And playing the game for 4-8 hours(depends on SSD quality) means that you can say goodbye to that block."

Here's a link to the post...
http://www.rpgcodex....55#post-3599880

Its referencing an entirely different game that ran like **** on all platforms.

[Bann Duncan]

 

I'll copy/paste a user's post from another forum. I'd love to see some comments from people with better technical knowledge than me.

"Resource monitors for RAM and CPU consumption numbers, memory viewer for trying to figure out what makes it tick and track address issues, SSD analysis tools for those delicious dead blocks and data tracking

Wanna know average number of times parts of LotF exe code are fcked around between RAM and HDD in the span of one hour? 150000 copy/write iterations. That's about 10000 times more than usual. DRM constantly decrypts the game code into the memory and encrypts it back. This is the most bullshit usage of encryption software I've ever stumbled upon. And even though code chunks are quite small(couple of kilobytes per go at worst), they are all stored in one memory block. And playing the game for 4-8 hours(depends on SSD quality) means that you can say goodbye to that block."

Here's a link to the post...

http://www.rpgcodex....55#post-3599880

 

 

I'm pretty sure it was just a miserably coded game and the devs are using Denuvo as their excuse. The PS4 and Xbox One versions have huge performance issues as well. Are they secretly running Denuvo on them? I don't think so.

[dch2404]

 

I'll copy/paste a user's post from another forum. I'd love to see some comments from people with better technical knowledge than me.

"Resource monitors for RAM and CPU consumption numbers, memory viewer for trying to figure out what makes it tick and track address issues, SSD analysis tools for those delicious dead blocks and data tracking

Wanna know average number of times parts of LotF exe code are fcked around between RAM and HDD in the span of one hour? 150000 copy/write iterations. That's about 10000 times more than usual. DRM constantly decrypts the game code into the memory and encrypts it back. This is the most bullshit usage of encryption software I've ever stumbled upon. And even though code chunks are quite small(couple of kilobytes per go at worst), they are all stored in one memory block. And playing the game for 4-8 hours(depends on SSD quality) means that you can say goodbye to that block."

Here's a link to the post...

http://www.rpgcodex....55#post-3599880

 

 

Could you link the original source of that claim? That guy just quoted someone else with no citation.

 

My issue with this quote is that he uses the term "copy/write" iterations when SSD endurance is measured in program-erase (P/E) cycles. SSD blocks are known to withstand 100,000 P/E cycles, so if his calculations of 150,000 cycles per hour is true, then I expect irate gamers to be up in arms about failed SSD blocks in less than an hour. Yet I cannot for the life of me, even with all my google-fu skills, find the original research which led to these numbers. I cannot even find any evidence of people complaning about failed SSD blocks because of LOTF. Until I see conclusive evidence, I call shenanigans.

[KoorahUK]

I'm pretty sure it was just a miserably coded game and the devs are using Denuvo as their excuse. The PS4 and Xbox One versions have huge performance issues as well. Are they secretly running Denuvo on them? I don't think so.

This is the thing isn't it. There is a huge amount of noise about how Denuvo cripples performance and damagesd SSD's but that RPGCodex post gets quoted all the time in relation to this...and little else. There are a lot of very smart PC enthusiasts out there, surely others should be able to verify the claim if Denuvo is so clearly to blame?

I'm not defending it or saying it doesn't do that, but correlation does not prove causation and I need proof that Denuvo is the cause rather than just poorly written code - which frankly seems far more likely given the shocking performance of LOTF on consoles as well - before I pick up my pitchfork and light my torch. 

The internet could do with more scientists and less demagogues in my opinion.

[JR1911]

I'd like a definite answer on this issue too. I was planning on installing the game on my SSD, but if it indeed causes massive amounts of writes, I'll have to install it on one of my HDDs instead.

[Bann Duncan]

This is the thing isn't it. There is a huge amount of noise about how Denuvo cripples performance and damagesd SSD's but that RPGCodex post gets quoted all the time in relation to this...and little else. There are a lot of very smart PC enthusiasts out there, surely others should be able to verify the claim if Denuvo is so clearly to blame?

I'm not defending it or saying it doesn't do that, but correlation does not prove causation and I need proof that Denuvo is the cause rather than just poorly written code - which frankly seems far more likely given the shocking performance of LOTF on consoles as well - before I pick up my pitchfork and light my torch. 

The internet could do with more scientists and less demagogues in my opinion.

 

My laptop has an SSD as its drive and my DA:I is installed on said drive. If there was cause for concern, I'd be the first in line, but considering that it ran so terribly on PS4 and XB1 (which are decently powered and on top of that games are more optimised) I'm pretty sure this is nonsense.

[dch2404]

This is the thing isn't it. There is a huge amount of noise about how Denuvo cripples performance and damagesd SSD's but that RPGCodex post gets quoted all the time in relation to this...and little else. There are a lot of very smart PC enthusiasts out there, surely others should be able to verify the claim if Denuvo is so clearly to blame?

I'm not defending it or saying it doesn't do that, but correlation does not prove causation and I need proof that Denuvo is the cause rather than just poorly written code - which frankly seems far more likely given the shocking performance of LOTF on consoles as well - before I pick up my pitchfork and light my torch. 

The internet could do with more scientists and less demagogues in my opinion.

 

Yeah the 2 games with Denuvo (LOTF and FIFA) have been out long enough for a cause-effect relationship to be established yet not a single reputable technical site has picked up on this. Seriously WTF is RPGCodex? Is this site on par with CNET, Anandtech, Tomshardware, etc?

 

Is all you need are a few numbers and technical jargon enough to convince gullible people of an unproven phenomenon?