483 réponses à ce sujet

[Iakus]

The key is to both move somewhere else and acknowledge player decisions in some way. 

"Your decisions matter!"

 

"Now let's go someplace where we don't have to deal with them"

 

[Vazgen]

Did you read only half of my post?

"and acknowledge player decisions in some way" kinda contradicts "Now let's go someplace where we don't have to deal with them"

[TruthSerum]

I honestly don't see how "Extended Cut high EMS Destroy" isn't the perfect cannon ending. 

[Iakus]

Did you read only half of my post?

"and acknowledge player decisions in some way" kinda contradicts "Now let's go someplace where we don't have to deal with them"

 

Then what's the point of acknowlegement?  Why carry over a choice if you don't have to deal with it? 

[Vazgen]

Then what's the point of acknowlegement?  Why carry over a choice if you don't have to deal with it? 

My point is, that with a system like DA Keep they can easily address different endings if the game is set in another region of space. The easiest and laziest way is to write a codex entry about the Reaper War. More interesting solution might be exploring groups opposing Shepard's decision and groups supporting it. Would require more work but won't have to deal with glowing eyes etc. Again, the point is that if the game is set in a whole different area, the events of the trilogy can be referenced without dealing with rachni ruling Tuchanka, destroyed mass relays etc. - those are all left in the area of the trilogy. Obviously that requires not visiting any location from the original trilogy.

[TruthSerum]

I can see BW doing a DA keep like thingy with ME4.

 

Personally I think it's just as interesting if the people in the supposed "Ark" or " mass exodus" or whatever lose all contact with the Milky Way galaxy after leaving and have no idea what  truly happened back home. 

 

I think it might be cool if the series returned to the Milky Way galaxy in a later installment of the series and had everything turned on its head from the long term effects of the war.  

[Revan Reborn]

I honestly don't see how "Extended Cut high EMS Destroy" isn't the perfect cannon ending. 

That's because it is the perfect canon ending based on Shepard's choices throughout the trilogy. It's what everybody, including Shepard, set out to do from the start and his suggested survival and the hesitant hope of his crew mates really brings the story full circle and to a close. As I stated in a prior post though, it would be easy for BioWare to rectify the differences in the ending without having to make a canon ending or retcons:

 

-Reapers go back to dark space (Synthesis, Control)

-Citadel and Mass Relays are repaired (Destroy, Synthesis, Control)

-Synthetics are rebuilt (Destroy)

-Green glowing skin dissipates shortly after Citadel discharges Mass Effect energy (Synthesis)

 

This makes it simple for BioWare allowing for all the outcomes to have somewhat of a similar future based on a few design choices. That way everybody's choice mattered and there will be nods to those choices in the new game. BioWare has no reason to establish a canon ending because it's not necessary.

[Iakus]

That's because it is the perfect canon ending based on Shepard's choices throughout the trilogy. It's what everybody, including Shepard, set out to do from the start and his suggested survival and the hesitant hope of his crew mates really brings the story full circle and to a close. As I stated in a prior post though, it would be easy for BioWare to rectify the differences in the ending without having to make a canon ending or retcons:

 

-Reapers go back to dark space (Synthesis, Control)

-Citadel and Mass Relays are repaired (Destroy, Synthesis, Control)

-Synthetics are rebuilt (Destroy)

-Green glowing skin dissipates shortly after Citadel discharges Mass Effect energy (Synthesis)

 

This makes it simple for BioWare allowing for all the outcomes to have somewhat of a similar future based on a few design choices. That way everybody's choice mattered and there will be nods to those choices in the new game. BioWare has no reason to establish a canon ending because it's not necessary.

My Shepard didn't set out to commit genocide.  Therefore it's nowhere near a "perfect" ending for me.  Canon or no.

[Iakus]

My point is, that with a system like DA Keep they can easily address different endings if the game is set in another region of space. The easiest and laziest way is to write a codex entry about the Reaper War. More interesting solution might be exploring groups opposing Shepard's decision and groups supporting it. Would require more work but won't have to deal with glowing eyes etc. Again, the point is that if the game is set in a whole different area, the events of the trilogy can be referenced without dealing with rachni ruling Tuchanka, destroyed mass relays etc. - those are all left in the area of the trilogy. Obviously that requires not visiting any location from the original trilogy.

 

But if you don't have to deal with "rachni ruling Tuchanka" or whatever, then what's the point of the choice?  Why demand "big choices" and then run away from their consequences?

[Vazgen]

They can be dealt with using codex entries. Then they can be expanded upon in ME:Next 2, including choices made in that game. If Dragon Age can pull off all those different world states, I believe ME can.

For now they need to give people fresh experience, something that does not constantly remind them of endings. Every third discussion on these forums ends up as an ending discussion, they need to make people to move on.

[Revan Reborn]

My Shepard didn't set out to commit genocide.  Therefore it's nowhere near a "perfect" ending for me.  Canon or no.

Shepard also didn't set out to commit genocide against the Batarians, yet he had to destroy the Alpha Relay to prevent an early arrival of the Reapers. Regardless of what you thought the "perfect" ending was, I'm going purely based off Shepard's actions and BioWare's storytelling. High EMS Destroy is the ideal ending.

[Iakus]

They can be dealt with using codex entries. Then they can be expanded upon in ME:Next 2, including choices made in that game. If Dragon Age can pull all those different world states, I believe ME can.

For now they need to give people fresh experience, something that does not constantly remind them of endings. Every third discussion on these forums ends up as an ending discussion, they need to make people to move on.

Dragon Age never put the player in a position to fundamentally alter Thedas, potentially down to the genetic level.  They can move the setting from nation to nation keeping separate stories while occassionally referencing stuff that came before.

 

Yes, they need to give players a fresh experience, and get away fromteh endings, but running away from teh galaxy is not going to solve it.  The very fact that the setting has left the galaxy would be a reminder of why you have been driven from it.

[Iakus]

Shepard also didn't set out to commit genocide against the Batarians, yet he had destroy the Alpha Relay to prevent an early arrival of the Reapers. Regardless of what you thought the "perfect" ending was, I'm going purely based off Shepard's actions and BioWare's storytelling. High EMS Destroy is the ideal ending.

 

And that is why a Mass Effect Keep idea is fail for me.

[TruthSerum]

My Shepard didn't set out to commit genocide.  Therefore it's nowhere near a "perfect" ending for me.  Canon or no.

 

I think its perfect in the context of what Mass Effect is at its core. Which is a game about making "hard" choices. Mass Effect games build up the elements of the game world enough to the point where you care big time about the consequences of the choices that you make. This is crucial to the element of what the game is at it's core.  

 

Besides, the EC high EMS Destroy ending clearly shows all of the major civilizations surviving. But if absolutely everybody survived (synthetic life in Destroy) there wouldn't be a "hard" choice to make.

 

So the game series being about what it is,  I think that it is appropriate that your very last choice should be the hardest choice of all. 

[Vazgen]

Dragon Age never put the player in a position to fundamentally alter Thedas, potentially down to the genetic level.  They can move the setting from nation to nation keeping separate stories while occassionally referencing stuff that came before.

 

Yes, they need to give players a fresh experience, and get away fromteh endings, but running away from teh galaxy is not going to solve it.  The very fact that the setting has left the galaxy would be a reminder of why you have been driven from it.

By your definition they should not make ME:Next at all. Anything you can come up will be a reminder why it is so. Even your favorite "dismiss the trilogy" option.

[Iakus]

I think its perfect in the context of what Mass Effect is at its core. Which is a game about making "hard" choices. Mass Effect games build up the elements of the game world enough to the point where you care big time about the consequences of the choices that you make. This is crucial to the core element  of what the game is. 

 

Besides, the EC high EMS Destroy ending clearly shows all of the major civilizations surviving. But if absolutely everybody survived (synthetic life in Destroy) there wouldn't be a "hard" choice to make.

 

So the game series being about what it is,  I think that it is appropriate that your very last choice should be the hardest choice of all. 

 

Nah, it's a trilogy about how no matter how well you do, there's only so much of a difference you will be allowed to make.  Sadz will be had, even if it's inappropriate for teh situation.  Even if they have to take a hammer to the setting your decisions shaped.

 

I'd like to think we can move away from that aspect, at least.

[Iakus]

By your definition they should not make ME:Next at all. Anything you can come up will be a reminder why it is so. Even your favorite "dismiss the trilogy" option.

 

I've said multiple times there are no good options for continuing Mass Effect.  ME3 was quite obviously not made with further installments in mind. 

 

"Torch the Franchise and Run" has been invoked more than once.

 

But I still think that if they want to move away from the endings and start fresh, they should do so completely.  Cut all ties and stat a brand new story.

[T-Raks]

And that is why a Mass Effect Keep idea is fail for me.

Why? Just because other players would have different universe states than yours? A mass effect keep would mean that you could play on with your preferred universe state.

 

Your Shep helped the Krogan cure the genophage? Then your new PC might hear a heroic story about "the Shepard and that crazy Salarian" from your new Krogan squadmate. Your Shep didn't? Then the Krogan have to find another scientist to cure it. Maybe they have already achieved that goal, then your squadmate probably has another heroic story to tell, maybe they haven't yet and you hear about their ongoing suffering. Different dialogues acknowledging different choices in the trilogy. Just because the next game likely doesn't have missions centered again around the Genophage and whether the Krogan will immediately make a power play if cured, your decision didn't matter?

 

Your Shep sided with the Geth? Then you can bet that the Quarians that survived the war with the Geth and the Reapers will have something bad to say about that. You didn't destroy the Geth in your ending? Then you might even have a Geth squadmate, destroy pickers like me won't have.

 

There are so many things you can do to acknowledge the trilogy choices, while telling a story about a conflict that can arise after many ending variations, that to me this would be the best initial option. You still can at some point down the road bring out games centering around special conflicts arising only after one of the choices made at the end of ME3. But those might still be a thousand years or longer (in case of new synthetics challenging all organics) away, so I ask one more time: what is the problem with one major conflict developing independent of the ending choice?

[Vazgen]

So, do you want them to continue making games in ME universe or not? If no, I have no idea why do you even bother discussing possibilities for the new game. If yes and "clear list" is your idea of continuation than your statement of "running away from teh galaxy is not going to solve it. The very fact that the setting has left the galaxy would be a reminder of why you have been driven from it" contradicts your suggestion.

[StealthGamer92]

I honestly don't see how "Extended Cut high EMS Destroy" isn't the perfect cannon ending. 

It is purely a mater of perspective imo. I think synthesis is the perfect ending personally. Not because of the talk with th Star Child, but because I believe in peace through understanding. Sure some would abuse the new abilities synthesis provided for their own gain. That is why a law keeping force would still be needed. In fact for a time after the war that force would probably be militaristic(martial law?) to keep oprtunists at bay.

[Iakus]

Why? Just because other players would have different universe states than yours? A mass effect keep would mean that you could play on with your preferred universe state.

 

No.  A Mass Effect Keep would not let me play in my preferred universe state because my prefered universe state is a mod.

 

And the Dragon Age Keep only allows "canon" outcomes.  A Mass Effect Keep with similar limitations is an automatic non-starter for me.

[Iakus]

So, do you want them to continue making games in ME universe or not? If yes, I have no idea why do you even bother discussing possibilities for the new game. If no and "clear list" is your idea of continuation than your statement of "running away from teh galaxy is not going to solve it. The very fact that the setting has left the galaxy would be a reminder of why you have been driven from it" contradicts your suggestion.

 

Mass Effect Games, sure.

 

Continuations of this story?  Hell no.

 

I say do a clean slate, and don't pretend it's anything other than it is.

[Vazgen]

Mass Effect Games, sure.

 

Continuations of this story?  Hell no.

 

I say do a clean slate, and don't pretend it's anything other than it is.

Mass Effect game in a new universe? Uhm, not sure if I can call it a Mass Effect game. Depends on implementation though. I'm sure ME Keep will not take away from that. Not everyone played the trilogy, you should be able to play the game without using Keep-imported save and spoilers for the trilogy. 

[ImaginaryMatter]

BioWare never stated the entirety of the Indoctrination Theory was wrong. In fact, they never explicitly addressed it at all. The only reason it was refuted, in part, was because the Extended Cut addressed any ambiguities with respect to the future after the final choice. The Reapers clearly only "win" with Refuse, so that aspect of the Indoctrination Theory was entirely off base.

 

That being said, it's evident that Shepard was suffering from Indoctrination, to an extent. Shepard was hallucinating a child, seeing him, suffer, dreaming about his death, etc. No one else ever witnessed this child, and Shepard was clearly showing symptoms of Indoctrination. This can also be used to explain the situation on the Citadel when Anderson "dies" and we see fresh blood on Shepard's arm that wasn't there previously, as if he had been shot by TIM instead of Anderson. There is a lot of symbolism and crazy stuff that happens at the end of the game.

 

Suffice it to say, the Indoctrination Theory was completely wrong with respect to the endings of ME3, but definitely showed valid evidence and support the fact Shepard was in duress during the events of ME3.

 

Except we have two points in the story (from Vendetta on Thessia and at the end of Cronos station) where we're clearly told we are not Indoctrinated. The child and the subsequent dreams have dozens of other explanations including in game and various bits of information from outside sources. Weird stuff =/= Indoctrination.

 

Personally, I want BioWare to make the entire trilogy (ME3 included) have an impact on MENext. I want a Dragon Age Keep for Mass Effect where I can import all of my choices, including the final choice (I chose Destroy), so I can have an altered world state that somewhat pays homage to my Shepard's legacy.

I sure hope not. The choices will be too diverse to really have any meaningful impact. The games straddle an awkward fence where they neither have the consistency, cohesion, or well developed plot, arcs, characters, etc of a linear story while never giving player choice anything past a superficial nod in the story (while also, maybe specifically, not doing a good job at maintaining an illusion of choice). Preferably you could balance the two of these well but since that isn't the case the developers should probably stick with one.

[Iakus]

Mass Effect game in a new universe? Uhm, not sure if I can call it a Mass Effect game. Depends on implementation though. I'm sure ME Keep will not take away from that. Not everyone played the trilogy, you should be able to play the game without using Keep-imported save and spoilers for the trilogy. 

 

Every decade or so DC reboots the continuity of their comic books.  I'm thinking Mass Effect should be doing the same in this case.