30 réponses à ce sujet

[DirtyDexter]

I have to say, I've never been more excited about a game release or... possibly anything in my life. That being said, I realize my disappointment is largely my own doing. But disappointed I am. 

Your game world is massive. Awesome. Who doesn't love massive game worlds. Well, I don't, but that's beside the point. You've made this enormous game world to explore and despite size, what is there? Fights, sure, but fights don't need to be spread out all over the place. Connect the dots? Really? You can find a thing that lets you see how far you'll have to walk to find other things And then there's crafting material. They're everywhere. Tons of them. For OCD players like me, it's miserable, but more than that, it's unrewarding. I spent two hours collecting things and had enough to create one piece of armor with iron to spare for one, maybe 2 more. Trading meaningful content for more content really doesn't work for me and I would assume doesn't work for role playing gamers in general. 


Character development. I'll be able to say more if I ever see any. All you get are points to invest in very plain spell/talent trees. Trees are the worst idea anyone's come up with to begin with. Let alone when they're filled with more cliche active abilities than you'll ever need and otherwise buffs to the few you do. You've completely removed attribute allocation. This isn't my character. This is your character that I get to play with. Even DA2 was more satisfying in this regard and you guys know how your real fans felt about DA2. 

Character voice overs. This makes me feel like the character is the voice actor rather than me. More than that, when I choose a dialogue option, I've already heart it in my head. Having to hear someone else reword it ruins the entire experience for me. 

These things together make the entire game feel hollow to me. If you find yourselves receiving a lot of heat for this game, I suggest taking these things into account on your next one. 

Suggestions: Level based, retroactive talent pools. A handful of relatively equally balanced talents for levels at which they're balanced for that can also be selected even if you've reached the next tier. Something like D&D feats. 

Let me customize my attributes.

Remove PC voice acting for anything other than video cut scenes and maybe like in DA;O with the field responses. My dialogue is mine and I am my character.

Finding tons of spread out crafting ingredients is the most boring, mundane, ungamely thing you can do. If people want to do it, that's great, but don't force me to do it to make the gear I want. I'm honestly unsure if any of it is sold or as enemy drops, but if not, I strongly suggest doing that. It's so much more satisfying. 


The devs are seemingly ecstatic about the amount of dialogue in this game. In the very beginning you get a feel for the quality of banter dialogue when Cassandra says "I hope Leliana is okay." Varric responds with "She'll be alright" and Solas follows up with "We'll see." I know there are great lines in this game, but you don't need to fill a game with a bunch of lines just to boast high content voice acting. You can focus on other things and make a much better game. I won't say this is a bad thing, but considering how hollow everything else feels, a bunch of redundant voice over lines really seem like it could have been resources better spent. 


I'm finding I don't even want to play the single player on this game, because of these issues and as I said, I was super excited about this game and I don't even get super excited. Considering the amount of multiplayer content, I'm sure I'm going to get bored of that real quickly, too and now I feel like I've wasted my money. 
 

[helpthisguyplease]

Well cheat do you think I am gonna waste time crafting armours and weapons? No I will use  trainer to have millions of gold so I can buy armors and weapons. I do not play bioware games for their combat or crafting or anything gameplay I play for the story so what you said its because you value gameplay to more then the story. In my opinion you play the game for the wrong reasons especially a bioware game.

[Muspade]

Finding tons of spread out crafting ingredients is the most boring, mundane, ungamely thing you can do. If people want to do it, that's great, but don't force me to do it to make the gear I want. 

You're not forced to do anything In this regard. You're forcing yourself to do it because you WANT to create the gear you want instead of relying on loot which we did in the past games.

 

Character voice overs. This makes me feel like the character is the voice actor rather than me. More than that, when I choose a dialogue option, I've already heart it in my head. Having to hear someone else reword it ruins the entire experience for me.

Remove PC voice acting for anything other than video cut scenes and maybe like in DA;O with the field responses. My dialogue is mine and I am my character.

It's not going to happen. You may as well come to terms with this before you're dissapointed by it again.

That's all, really. Most of your problems don't seem huge to me right now.

 

 

[InterrogationBear]

Remove PC voice acting for anything other than video cut scenes and maybe like in DA;O with the field responses. My dialogue is mine and I am my character.

 

How about NO. The silent PC is never coming back.

[Semipro]

As I haven't played the game yet my opinion is not entirely valid.

 

But when I see this kind of post I tend to look at the history of BioWare RPG's and how they've evolved and in all fairness there is a core of long term fans that wish things never really evolved past Baldur's Gate or NWN.

 

But BioWare really stopped repackaging D&D after DA:O and in all fairness I'm kind of okay with that because they're at least not enshrining a game style that if i was really interested in playing I'd be sitting in some geek rebel basement somewhere drinking horrible craft brews and rolling dice after all.

 

I'm one of those weird people that believes DA2's game systems were superior to DA:O's...but DA:O blew the doors off DA2 in terms of depth of story and immersing the character in a huge and challenging world..but the combat and character systems of DA:O even in their prime, were antiquated and back dated to the same tired stat based pseudo combat of Dungeons and Dragon's being played out visually in an animated fashion, a very floaty animated fashion in of which combat didn't even feel real.

 

I've always felt like DA2 improved heavily on this, and DA:I seems to try to want to meet the two types of combat in the middle which I think is a fair concession to the players that prefer the old BG/NWN/DA:O style of things, while retaining a fresh and somewhat original direction for Dragon Age itself.

 

Far as gathering things and crafting, I tend to enjoy that kind of additional game play, but if the items are of little relative worth in reference to the effort engaged in gathering their materials, I may find it to be less engrossing.

 

Overall I can't speak much about the actual game because i haven't played it, but if one thing plays true from DA:O on is that the story of all the games so far, is what has made any slight misgivings about how the game plays take a back seat. This was mostly the case with Mass Effect as well for me, even with the rather wild changes and variances between the three versions in regards to how the game played or how game systems were engaged as additional content.

[DirtyDexter]

So, two of you are saying to completely ignore the player contribution to this game and instead treat it like a movie and the other is making a response on an aspect of the game I didn't even mention. What's the point of posting on a thread if you're going to ignore the content of the thread? I was trying to be constructive on how to better a game, should the majority of their fan base feel similarly to how I feel. Saying "ignore most of the game" isn't constructive or relevant. 

As far as combat goes, it's really preference and what they've done with this seems to be more popular with most people. Personally I did prefer DA:O combat. I'm a little confused about your comment on realism, though. There's really not much realistic about video game combat. The most realistic I've seen is KotOR, where you let two combatants fight out in a series of combat animations while selecting which kinds of attacks to throw in there. Two people standing next to eachother, swinging wildly, is extremely unrealistic.

[Ares_mito]

I have the feeling that game mechanics have been simplified a lot: no advanced tactics system, no healing spells at all(in DAII you had to think carefully how to use Anders mana or run out of healing), no character personalization while leveling except for skills and no sustained effectsbut only boring potions and MMORPG like resurrection mechanism. I am disappointed at the point I'm thinking to cancel my preorder but if so I will never do a preorder for a Bioware game at all(after DAII and I thought that DA:I could add instead of reducing in terms of battle mechanics).

[Semipro]

So, two of you are saying to completely ignore the player contribution to this game and instead treat it like a movie and the other is making a response on an aspect of the game I didn't even mention. What's the point of posting on a thread if you're going to ignore the content of the thread? I was trying to be constructive on how to better a game, should the majority of their fan base feel similarly to how I feel. Saying "ignore most of the game" isn't constructive or relevant. 

As far as combat goes, it's really preference and what they've done with this seems to be more popular with most people. Personally I did prefer DA:O combat. I'm a little confused about your comment on realism, though. There's really not much realistic about video game combat. The most realistic I've seen is KotOR, where you let two combatants fight out in a series of combat animations while selecting which kinds of attacks to throw in there. Two people standing next to eachother, swinging wildly, is extremely unrealistic.

 

I am not saying ignore most of the game. I am saying that I embrace the changes. You do not embrace the changes, you prefer the older numeric manipulation systems and theres nothing wrong with that specifically.

 

But to ignore the fact that the game systems have evolved is to ignore the game and demand it to be another game.

 

The player contribution in DA:I is likely about as relevant as player contribution in Mass Effect was, given as the protagonist is voiced, you always end up having to accept that as part of your characters identity. I personally always enjoyed the Warden in DA:O for example because the unvoiced hole allowed me to self insert into the storyline without any kind of immersion constraints.

 

Voice protagonists can be a problem in that regard, but if they are well written and convincingly voiced then I can eventually, once used to them, accept them as an extension of my own role play, even if they sometimes don't exactly reflect how I would say a certain phrase.

 

Now far as combat realism goes, its not about "realism" as such in the exact nuances of every "turn" but in the "feel", does it feel like you actually hit something with a sword or a spell, is there impact and physical effects that don't seem scripted animations but direct causative effects of being struck with a blow...that kind of thing. DA2 had that better impact feel than DA:O did. And as stated DA:I appears to be trying to meet the two in the middle.

 

I didn't ignore the content of your OP, I did read it, the issue basically boils down to you preferring the old pen and paper style that BioWare used to employ. It would appear you aren't deep enough into the story yet to make a full judgment yet on whether the story carries the game or not, and secondary systems such as achievement hunting, and crafting, hardly have to define the depth of a title, they're simply added systems for people that wish to engage in them, if you don't enjoy them, simply play the game without them, you are more than likely to run across tons of containers of perfectly viable weapons and armors and loot drops from NPC's as per the usual RPG standard.

[Muspade]

 Saying "ignore most of the game" isn't constructive or relevant. 

If you feel it's a chore to craft, ignore it. That's what meant by "optional". You won't get better results by ignoring a mechanic set into the game. 

That should be a given.

So, two of you are saying to completely ignore the player contribution to this game and instead treat it like a movie

Not certain how you came up with this. Having voices for the Protagonist equals "movie"? Alright.

 is extremely unrealistic.

DA2 was unrealisticly fast, DA:O was unrealisticly slow. Reality doesn't apply to gameplay a lot, if you note on it.

[frylock23]

If the size of the world is bothering you, weren't you paying attention to promos? They made it amply obvious this game was going to be enormous from the start. If you are getting lost in the size, then you should have known going in what you were getting into. I've known and that's my one fear is that I might get lost in the world and lose interest because of its sheer size. This happened to me in Oblivion and I never made it more than four hours in.

 

As for all the gathering, you don't have to stop and obsessively pick up everything unless you have a compulsive trait that makes you need to. I know the previous games have trained us to pick up everything, but I think this one will rapidly break us of the habit unless you genuinely love to pick up every single bit of everything. I'm sure I won't be doing it but only selectively looking for things that I figure I will actually need because I will be confident that there is plenty of most everything just around the corner.

[Farangbaa]

Against voiced protagonist???

 

have you been hit on the head, son?

[shakydvs010]

@dirty dexter. Read your posts but have to disagree with most of them.

Large world is awesome and adds to the world being more realistic. Seeing some mountain in the distance and being able to go to it adds a huge amount to the game than thin corridors etc.

In relation to fights... I enjoy the combat so more is better. I also enjoy finding crafting stuff and getting huge amounts of it. I could do that for hours on end.

I like the way the character develops also as its taken the diablo 3 style in which gear now matters rather than manual stat points. It also means that it's more accessible to new players who aren't sure how to place stat points.

I really love the voice overs for characters and find I fully immerse myself as that character. Would hate to see that changed. I'm also a big fan of the banter between characters no matter how big or small it is. It's more real in a sense when that happens rather than awkward silence for hours on end.

In all I'm an older gamer and love the changes I've seen/played and believe the game is definitely going in the right direction. It's a huge leap forward from the previous games.

I understand you want to leave feedback to enhance your precieved gameplay however it would negatively affect the way I would enjoy it. I don't believe your changes would take the game forward in any way. It's not to say your ideas are bad it's just that I disagree with them.

Hope you don't take it as a negative put but one based in my own personal opinion. While I do see some things that annoy me I can also see me playing this game for years to come.

P.s. sorry for spelling and grammar as I typed this on my phone

[DirtyDexter]

I'm not saying the large world is bad. I'm saying it's pointless in this case, as it's completely unsatisfying.

Semipro, This game isn't progression, it's regression. As it stands there's absolutely no reason to have any character customization at all, because the limited, cliche options are easily manipulated for optimization and since you only need a handful of them to begin with, and get barely more and the ones you do need aren't really satisfying at all aaaaand you can only get to level 27 or so, they might as well just do away with leveling all together. Make it just like God of War or Assassins Creed. They've dumbed the entire system. Before, you had to think about how you wanted to make your character. Think about how best to do that. Think about how best to use your team. Now, it's just "hey, go stand in the door way." You did ignore my first post, by the way, since I didn't say anything about the combat system and that's just about all you commented on. The pool system of talents might be old, but it's made what have been considered the best RPG's for 30 years, because it works. The Old Republic team is even converting their tree system to it, because they've realized that trees are crap and don't work. 

But you guys don't seem to understand what's going on here. This is the feedback section. I'm giving feedback to Bioware on my take on the game and suggestions for ways I think they could  improve it. I implore you to do the same, rather just come here and tell me I'm wrong. Tell BioWare what you want. They're a sales company. They want to make the best product for the lowest cost to get the most out of it. They do that by making the most enjoyable experience. Give them ideas as to how they can do that rather than simply saying "hey, just go with it. Accept it for what it is." Especially since I am accepting it for what it is. It's boring. That's what it is. So, let's give them idea for the next one, so when we're accepting that one for what it is, what it is is the best ****** game ever. 

Shakydvs, that's fair and I respect that. Thank you for your input, but I still think it would be better served telling BioWare what you think they could improve on. The more ideas the better. I don't take it as negative at all. As for ease of access for new players... That's kind of bullshit. They're only new for so long and anyone can learn. If they're not unsatisfied with it from the start, because of how easy it is, I can only imagine they will be soon, due to how lame the whole thing is. Then again, this is the Assassin's Creed/League of Legends/WoW era, so simple games are king, I guess. 

[Kantr]

I play skyrim and while the silent pc is ok...

 

I love DA:i and the talking PC, it's so much more alive!

[DirtyDexter]

You know, Kantr, I really thought the thing I would be least different in opinion on from most people is the voiced PC thing. I just don't understand how there's any immersion in a role playing game... A game where I'm supposed to take on the role of my character... if the character is someone else. It's just weird and seems like having my own character is completely pointless. This might as well be a movie with active resource gathering. 

[DirtyDexter]

Dragon Age:Inquisition The Movie. Join BioWare in it's most ambitious interactive film to date. Now with extensive resource gathering, connect the dots and the worlds first ever talent tree system still in its infancy. Interact with in depth companions as they partake in idle banter and other forms of small talk all around the massive and beautiful world of Thedas. Take on the role of some other person while they kind of jump for no reason, say things you've just read as them saying and can't swim at all, even though, unlike jumping, swimming would actually have a purpose. 

[d4fF]

A classic AAA rpg is never gonna happen again guys. The big publishers won't allow it, 90% of us want a different game. 

 

I've come to terms with that and have accepted it. 

 

 

That's how I still manage to love DA:I. It's a great game!

[Ares_mito]

Dragon Age:Inquisition The Movie. Join BioWare in it's most ambitious interactive film to date. Now with extensive resource gathering, connect the dots and the worlds first ever talent tree system still in its infancy. Interact with in depth companions as they partake in idle banter and other forms of small talk all around the massive and beautiful world of Thedas. Take on the role of some other person while they kind of jump for no reason, say things you've just read as them saying and can't swim at all, even though, unlike jumping, swimming would actually have a purpose. 

 

Sarcastic but I agree with you for what concern some points...Still I think this is a good game but I expected more from DA serie!

[DirtyDexter]

It's not a great game. It's a great story and **** game. Just accepting it when you have the power to let the people making it know what you want is why great games are so few and far between. 

[Ashen Nedra]

Are you a pen-and-paper playing person? A lot of your points -and especially the last one- could explain it.

 

I'm sorry I can't really give my impressions and real feedback on the game, as I have yet to play it, being in Europe.

 

But if you would allow me anyway to give my input on cRPG in general on the points you mentioned :

 

- Big open-worlds are potentially great. They give a sense of freedom akin to what you are feeling about the unvoiced character.  you can do whatever you want, go and jump everywhere, so it feels like more you character. I think however no one has ever done them very well. Skyrim presents a very nice and coherent world visually but the quest design and story are almost non-existent.  I personally really liked Morrowind back in the day, which suffered from the same flaws, for its peculiar atmosphere but what a bug-fest!

 

- skill trees : I hate them.  They are too rigid, difficult to guess without playing with them first and excruciating to decide on. On this game, I'm gonna look at the forum to see interesting builds, as I'm obviously of the wrong generation to be able to come up with interesting combinations on such a rigid system (I did came up all by myself with an unkillable AW in DAO though).  So, I would tend to agree with you on this point.

 

- On the "main" point, let me point out that a cRPG wants to offer a different experience as pen-and-paper RPG.  I'm an avid gamer of video RPGs, almost no other type of game interests me now. However, I was surprised to discover on this forum expressions like "headcannon" or to see the amount of devotion for romance interest some people have.  People actually role-playing in a solo-player video game.  I don't. It seems unnatural and awkward for me.

 

What I want to say, in a nut shell, is that video game RPG's are neither cinema (because they are voiced and cinematic), nor pen-and-paper because of the rules and combat, nor are they theater for really impersonating a character

 

The best of them try to incorporate elements of all these media and games into a coherent whole, and give the players a new satisfying experience. I hope DAI will be one of them.

[Coyote X Starrk]

Are you seriously complaining about gathering crafting materials in an RPG? 

 

Seriously? 

[Boboverlord]

Gameplay & mechanics should be improved, that's what I agree. But something unnecessary like "no PC voice acting plz" or "no crafting plz" should be put to the bottom abyss of priority.

 

I also disagree about skill tree design. It is great and open for various builds. I hate removal of attribute allocation but I will see what equipments can do in terms of alternative allocation freedom.

[Tian V]

Dexter, thank you. I agree in every detail... And the bottom line, as you state, is that the game is boring.

On voiced player character, it can be just tragic. My boyfriend, who loves the game, made a very cute, very young looking elf Mage last night, complete with back story. & then he speaks, in a very mature voice, & all that careful character creation is shattered.

As far as "real" combat, well, I've fought with real swords & DAO felt more "real" to me than anything else I've played. Yeah, they're just video games, but they're RPGs, so making things believable matters, at least to me.

My main complaint about this game is that after spending many hours, I don't care about my character, don't care about the companions & really don't much care if the world gets destroyed. If I don't have the elements of strong, interesting characters & a good plot that moves forward, I have no motivation to play.

Little humour, I keep meeting people I didn't like (or killed) in previous games, but those i care about are off somewhere else. A hole as an antagonist... Voice acting that lacks character or emotion... Even the music. I don't know why they replaced Ino Zur (sp?), but even the damn music is boring now.

Ah well, I know many people will love it & it frees up a lot of time for me to do other things.

And, like Dexter, I am posting here in hopes that the feedback will be read & perchance a new game someday will excite me like DAO...

It will be interesting to see if the sales figures on DAI plummet like they did for DA2...

[Malicious89]

It's interesting you haven't mentioned story, because personally I find it the most important thing in an RPG game. I haven't played the game yet so I can't comment on gameplay, but If the story is good and it keeps me hooked up, I'm willing to overlook a number of gameplay flaws but It's all about the preference and opinion. And to say that main character's voice acting should be removed, it's absolutely NO to that from my point of view. I feel like it helps with the immersion, it feels like my character is actually interacting with others in the game world, other than just standing around speechless doing nothing. 

 

I also disagree about removing the skill trees simply because I find it more intelligent than level based skill lines from Origins. You have to carefully think in which way you develop your tree in order to get the best possible result for a specific character; and there are also upgrades for that improve specific skills. I don't know how skill trees are handled in Inquisition but I liked it better in DA2 compared to Origins.

 

I really can't comment on forcing players to find crafting ingredients, since I haven't played the game, but some people say you find them much more easily later in game. The game has to have some kind of a system to reward your exploration.

[DirtyDexter]

There's a lot to reward exploration. Most of the mechanics and the story are great. They just gutted things that shouldn't have been gutted. Their logic being that people just put points into primary stats. A better solution would have been to add more, rather than remove, and make it so there is no clearly primary attribute. More ways to build each class rather than fewer. As it stands, this is a horrible RPG and a mediocre action game, but a brilliant medieval fantasy hiking simulator. Albeit with a great story that I just can't care about due to whoever the **** my character is being so dry and boring. After I stopped being so annoyed, I even tried to play the game again, thinking of it as an action game, but the skill trees weren't even rewarding enough for that. I'd have more fun playing Onimusha. To me, at least, it seems like a waste of what is, as far as I can tell, the best game world ever. 

As for the crafting materials, well, I was wrong. If you play long enough, you can send people to go get them. Which is solid.