44 réponses à ce sujet

[Srikandi715]

OK... I have never been a big fan of microtransactions in PC gaming... but I have just realized that DA:O has taken this to a level I didn't think was possible in a single-player offline game.

I'm talking about the Warden's Keep content. I'd been aware for some time that this was DLC which was free with some versions of the game but pay with others, and I was not planning to buy it. But I just found out that the sales pitch/purchase opportunity for this item is presented in-game by an NPC, who offers you a sales pitch and gives you a questlog entry -- WHETHER OR NOT YOU WANT THE DLC. Which means that if you don't choose to spend the money, you've had your time wasted by this NPC, and worse, willy-nilly you have a quest log entry which you can not complete without paying extra.

What's more, the NPC is still standing in my camp, and I have a feeling he isn't gonna go away unless I pay the money... a constant reminder, a salesman I can't get rid of.

Was bad enough seeing the "premium content" tag in the log with the Shale quest info... even though Shale comes with the game for free... since that label ("premium content") pretty much takes you right out of the gameworld and into the world of marketing-speak. But to have something put in my in-game log which I didn't buy and don't want multiplies this problem.

It's one thing to sell or otherwise offer bits and pieces of DLC outside the game. You want it, you pay for it; you don't want it, your game is unaffected buy it. But to have an NPC offer me a quest in-game... which I can't refuse (regardless of my response I get a questlog entry)... to complete which I have to pay real money outside the game? THAT IS GOING TOO FAR.

I had no warning of this, and if I had realized that EA was shilling their paid content in the gameworld using NPC salesmen, I would not have paid for this game. I've been following the development of this game and keeping track of the situation with the DLC very closely, but there was no hint that there was an in-game sales pitch for some of the items.

EA, if you must barrage us with pay content, keep it on your website or even in the launcher, please. But DON'T POLLUTE THE INTEGRITY OF THE GAME WORLD WITH IT. 

Yes, I'm shouting. I'm upset, because I was totally blindsided by this. The immersion is shattered.

Modifié par Srikandi715, 05 novembre 2009 - 01:09 .

[Serenity84]

I fully agree, but this will go nowhere. There was a 60+ page thread about this on the old forum...

Modifié par Serenity84, 05 novembre 2009 - 01:14 .

[Syrellaris]

people complaining about the immersion regarding this, need to really question them selfs. I doesnt break immersion at all. The npc's are marked for easy recognition, its your fault for not noting them.

[Srikandi715]

An easy way to access the content? We already have plenty of easy ways to access the content.

So I don't pass it up? Yes, they're trying to force it down my throat. "Over here! Look at me! Pay more money now!" But why would you think that's for MY benefit? It's for THEIR benefit.

It's a persistent, intrusive advertisement with no opt-out option available.

Was it known ahead of time that this was going to be in-game? Nothing I read said anything about that

Well, let's have another sixty-page thread.

The npc's are marked for easy recognition, its your fault for not noting them.

.MY issue is not that I didn't note him. Quite the opposite. THey are intrusive and unwelcome.

Modifié par Srikandi715, 05 novembre 2009 - 01:16 .

[ByblosHex]

IMO The NPC shouldnt even be there unless you have the Keep downloaded already.

[Nosuchluck]

I remember them telling us the NPC's trying to sell us content wouldn't be noticable but then they stick one in our camp and put the quest in our journal? Nice work. They might as well just have made it read "Your quest is to enter your credit card details so you can give us money!"

[Srikandi715]

ByblosHex wrote...

IMO The NPC shouldnt even be there unless you have the Keep downloaded already.

Exactly. Like any other normal DLC.

[Nosuchluck]

Kamenwati wrote...

Well I must say the $7 I spent on wardens keep will ensure that my children starve for the next week and I have no heat in my home. Curse EA! ...... Seriously though if it bothers you that much just spend the small fee and enjoy the bit of content, then you won't have an annoying log in your journal that haunts you as you play.

Yea because spending money on DLC is really going to encourage Bioware not to implant sales NPC's in furture patchs and games.

[dragero]

 But to have an NPC offer me a quest in-game... which I can't refuse (regardless of my response I get a questlog entry)... to complete which I have to pay real money outside the game? THAT IS GOING TOO FAR.

There's a quest I can't complete?! Ahhhhhhhhhh!!! *OCD head explosion*

[Syrellaris]

Srikandi715 wrote...

An easy way to access the content? We already have plenty of easy ways to access the content.

So I don't pass it up? Yes, they're trying to force it down my throat. "Over here! Look at me! Pay more money now!" But why would you think that's for MY benefit? It's for THEIR benefit.

It's a persistent, intrusive advertisement with no opt-out option available.

Was it known ahead of time that this was going to be in-game? Nothing I read said anything about that

Well, let's have another sixty-page thread.

The npc's are marked for easy recognition, its your fault for not noting them.

.MY issue is not that I didn't note him. Quite the opposite. THey are intrusive and unwelcome.

[Monkey umbrellas], all the information regarding these npc's were known long before the game was going to be launched. it is purely your own fault for not reading about them. Specially since the topics were stickied and posted by bioware on the original forums.

The npc' isnt even intrusive, if is marked so you recognize it. It is again only your own fault for talking to them and getting the quest. You could have skipped it easy enough and simply ignore the npc is there.

They arent unwelcome either, for Console gamers these npc's are very welcome same for a lot of pc gamers. just because you dont like them, does not mean others dont either.




EDIT: No swearing, please.

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 05 novembre 2009 - 01:30 .

[Srikandi715]

Kamenwati wrote...

Well I must say the $7 I spent on wardens keep will ensure that my children starve for the next week and I have no heat in my home. Curse EA! ...... Seriously though if it bothers you that much just spend the small fee and enjoy the bit of content, then you won't have an annoying log in your journal that haunts you as you play.

Kamenwati, I thought carefully about whether this particular DLC was worth the money to me or not, and I decided it wasn't. I am unemployed atm and have to watch my entertainment budget very carefully right now; yes $7 is the price of a sandwich, but I would like to be able to buy a sandwich that I would NOT be able to buy if I get the DLC. As if that weren't enough, my purse was stolen last week and I lost a lot more than $7 worth of cash. I also had to replace all my credit and debit cards, and the new ones haven't arrived yet, so I actually CAN'T buy anything online right now. And I just paid a locksmith $120 to replace all the locks on my doors, because my keys were in my purse too.

My point here is not that I am asking for sympathy. My point is that whether $7 extra is a lot or a little depends on a person's individual financial circumstances at a particular moment in time. What's not a lot to you may be a lot to somebody else.

And in any case, that is all beside the point. The point is that EA has inserted a modern corporate sales pitch inside of a medieval fantasy world. They've pissed in the beer.

[OctopusRush]

Ask me about LOOM

[Srikandi715]

Syrellaris wrote...

Bull****, all the information regarding these npc's were known long before the game was going to be launched. it is purely your own fault for not reading about them. Specially since the topics were stickied and posted by bioware on the original forums.

The npc' isnt even intrusive, if is marked so you recognize it. It is again only your own fault for talking to them and getting the quest. You could have skipped it easy enough and simply ignore the npc is there.

They arent unwelcome either, for Console gamers these npc's are very welcome same for a lot of pc gamers. just because you dont like them, does not mean others dont either.

"Was known"?

Excuse me, I looked at the old forums and at the new social forums quite a lot before game release, and I didn't happen to see anything about this particular issue. No, I did not read every single post. SInce when is that required, anyway? Plenty of people buy games without reading ANYTHING about them. If they find a defect in the game, they are perfectly entitled to be angry, even if some other people happened to know about the defect beforehand. And yes, I consider this a defect.

I am very aware that it's part of internet culture that people who DO read every single item of news about a forthcoming game think that it is everybody's moral responsibility to do the same... and I have done that myself, with some games... but for other games, I just dip, and really, can you honestly tell me that shouldn't be enough?

You can't have the NPC both be "marked for SUPER OBVIOUS RECOGNITION" and be unobtrusive at the same time. THey are mutually contradictory. In any case, I saw a mark, I thought it was a questgiver. Nothing in the manual or tutorial info, or in any of EA's marketing, warned me otherwise.

I don't know why there'd be any difference in whether you're a console or a PC gamer. You can order DLC outside the game on either platform, as folks have been successfully doing for years now. As for convience, it's convenient ONLY IF YOU WANT THE DLC. If you don't want it, it's inconvenient and an imposition.

Modifié par Srikandi715, 05 novembre 2009 - 01:38 .

[Syrellaris]

Again, on the original forums there was a big Bioware sign talking about the npc's. appearently you missed it.

technically they are contradicting each other, however we humans are gifted with a brain, i suggest you use it then and ignore the quest giver for DLC. It is not hard, if you would use that grey matter that was placed within bone materials behind your eyes. Also, the DLC givers are marked differently then quest givers, you would think people would notice it. I sure did atleast.

As for consoles, its makes a large difference. There is a whole world of difference when it comes to exiting the game, browsing xbox live marketplace or the Playstation network store, finding the game, download the content, install it and then reboot your game again, when you could do this ingame. I would say it is a player preference.

Modifié par Syrellaris, 05 novembre 2009 - 01:41 .

[Nosuchluck]

Syrellaris you're missing the point. We can pretend all we like that the NPC doesn't exist, but ultimatly at the end of the day he's still standing there and I can see him everytime I walk past. It's not ruining the game for me but that doesn't stop it from being an issue or a negative thing.



They could of easily sold DLC through the games start menu. This NPC is utterly uneeded and is just an annoying attempt at making more money. I wouldn't mind if he screwed off once I talked to him but they have to remind us about it by putting a quest in our journal and sticking a permanent NPC at our camp.



If you don't mind seeing that guy there all the time then there's no problem but some of us do because we don't want adverts in our game.

[Srikandi715]

Syrellaris wrote...

Again, on the original forums there was a big Bioware sign talking about the npc's. appearently you missed it.

technically they are contradicting each other, however we humans are gifted with a brain, i suggest you use it then and ignore the quest giver for DLC. It is not hard, if you would use that grey matter that was placed within bone materials behind your eyes. Also, the DLC givers are marked differently then quest givers, you would think people would notice it. I sure did atleast.

As for consoles, its makes a large difference. There is a whole world of difference when it comes to exiting the game, browsing xbox live marketplace or the Playstation network store, finding the game, download the content, install it and then reboot your game again, when you could do this ingame. I would say it is a player preference.

Ah, a flame questioning my intelligence. Yay for civility in Internet discourse

Many console games (Fable II being the most recent one I've played) tell you about DLC from the start screen. Obvious, convenient, and doesn't mess with the gameworld.

A pinned thread in "the old forum" does not communicate to the people who buy the game the information they would need to avoid those NPCs. What if they only looked at the new forum? Or looked at no forum? But that's not the point. The point is that the NPCs shouldn't be there. The player's camp is the worst possible place to put him, too, since it's someplace you are not going to just move on past, like most other zones... you're stuck with him permanently.

Modifié par Srikandi715, 05 novembre 2009 - 02:04 .

[Serenity84]

Syrellaris wrote...
Again, on the original forums there was a big Bioware sign talking about the npc's. appearently you missed it.

But it wasn't "long before". The NPC info is very new. I think two weeks at most.

[Srikandi715]

Kamenwati wrote...

Their tactic of implementing it into the game will make them more money in the long wrong

Heh... Freudian typo there?

Yeah, you're right about the economics. The publishers will push ads into games more and more intrusively until the players say "enough" and vote with their wallets. Everybody has to decide for themselves when the line has been crossed. But That's why I'm saying "enough" now, and I would have voted with my wallet if I had had the information in time I guess I'll have another chance with ME2, will have to look into that a little more closely.

Modifié par Srikandi715, 05 novembre 2009 - 02:25 .

[Grahamers]

I must admit that I am disappointed in Bioware by this. It is the future of gaming, but there should be some regulation set up. For example, software producers might label their games with a regulated "COMPLETE AND HASSLE FREE" icon on the package so that people know that this shiznizle isn't going to happen to them. (Details to be worked out as soon as I am elected...) This would force BioWare into a competition with smaller, hungrier shops that could hit them in thier marketing for their lack of such stickers. Until such time, it is buyer beware... the software devs will get you hooked and then, right when you are erady to "take it to the next level" they will hit you with a quest for your credit card.





Note: Nothin contined herein should be construed as a slam on "Expansion Packs" or stand alone DLC, etc. I am worreid abotu the "oh noes....my quest chain ended up at an NPC with his hand out for real $$$. I thought the $50 I paid for the game meant I got a complete and hassle free game. I just want a game that plays as a complete game and if they want to sell DLC to me elsewhre, great. I will reward developers who continue to produce quality content. (Heck, that is what Blizzard has been doign for 4 years now... $15 each month from each player.) Don't even get me started on the "pay me real $$$ and you get uber weapons and gear and stuff."

[Srikandi715]

Grahamers wrote...

I must admit that I am disappointed in Bioware by this. It is the future of gaming, but there should be some regulation set up. For example, software producers might label their games with a regulated "COMPLETE AND HASSLE FREE" icon on the package so that people know that this shiznizle isn't going to happen to them. (Details to be worked out as soon as I am elected...)

You have my vote

[Kabumpin]

So wait, your upset because there is an NPC that gives you a quest you cant complete because you cant afford to download the DLC he's tied too? Excuse me while I play the world's smallest violin. I fail to see how this is a problem. Its not like hes holding a large sign selling pizza or even advertising the DLC, you have to talk to him and you can decide to get the content or not. I call that a pretty smart way of offering up your content, you call it a destruction of your immersion, yet we are talking about the same thing. Crazy.