514 réponses à ce sujet

[Uccio]

Yeah I only play with k&m, I don´t even have controller.

[Zuzu Mumu]

Ahh, The joys of having the game you want, without being able to play it. Epic

[Pen-N-Paper]

Ahh, The joys of having the game you want, without being able to play it. Epic

 

 

We've been following these issues closely and are looking into them.

 

Player experience is a top priority for us.

[DanRoc]

I agree with all that was said previously. As it stands, it is difficult to run things smoothly with the current UI.

 

Also very annoying, after issuing orders to all characters while in the tactical view, I cannot zoom in without making that character stop and wait for direct control.

 

Things like this should not happen. In a beta yes, but not in the finnished product.

[Justice1]

I've been waiting for this game for years, had it pre-ordered and I can't even play it.
In fact I didn't even start yet. I was googling a way to keep my mouse cursor inside the game while in full windowed mode when I happened to learn about the horrible PC controls and found this thread.
Now I don't even want to try. Just reading the comments I am horrified, disgusted and enraged at the controls.
How could they have changed the whole UI in every single ways? What is the point? They thought we'd enjoy bashing our head on our keyboard for hours on end trying to "learn" a new "enhanced" way to play the game?

This truely appears like they just put the console controls on PC and called it a day. Considering everything started on PC I don't understand how they didn't bother to create two seperate control settings.

I am 100% waiting for a patch/fix/mod for PC and letting the game gather dust.
I will probably enjoy doing dishes more than DA:I at the moment. Sad. So sad.

EDIT: So I finally gave the game a try. Beautiful and everything. But combat will be a burden instead of a pleasure. I used to play at Hard+ and pause every 5 seconds and really go deep into strategy. For Inquisition, however, I'll be playing at easy or normal and stick to controlling my character only. Controls are awful and to think I bought it on PC ONLY because of the controls (expecting it wouldn't change).
What used to be entertaining is now a chore to go through. I hate combat now.
But I always played Dragon Age first for the story and characters so there is still that.
Love you Bioware, but you dropped the ball on the controls.

[SnQQpy]

First off, I've been in game-dev for some years and regarding engines developed by Crytek, Epic or Dice et al, I can tell you there's no such thing technically as hard-coded. These are not Black-Box entities! All source code is available to developers utilising these engines and from a technical standpoint it has to be in order to provide the greatest technical flexibility open to whoever chooses to use them. 

 

Now that said, while there are no limitations per se, there are some technical dangers associated with straying too far from specific core engine principles. However, to put everyone’s mind at ease the control input system isn't one of those dangers. Well if that’s the case how is it possible the control system has been poorly implemented/designed this way.

 

Well the sad truth is that this area (Input System, including UI) is often left to individuals/coders with less than epic experience. After-all the cream jobs like render, physics/collision detection, AI and say animation systems to name a few, are usually handed out to the more experienced programmers. Senior or lead coders wont find it stretching/challenging enough is the reason. I'm not saying these other individuals will never be any good but its more than likely they wouldn't have the game-dev experience or be technically competent to be let loose on the more crucial intricacies of game development.

 

It just goes to show that inexperienced programmers shouldn't really be given these (control system) tasks or if they are someone should be watching over them right? Well hell yeah but it appears that someone took their eye off the ball with this one I'm afraid. It shouldn't happen but it does and I'm positive you have all seen poor control systems and bad UI in games before YES?

 

So it can be fixed and should be for a game like Dragon Age and especially PC gamers ... the control system is an essential element and should be given higher priority than it often is and its pretty fundamental IMHO. 

 

Just my two penneth.   

[Zuzu Mumu]

@SnQQpy

I can't stress enough how important your post is.

[SnQQpy]

@SnQQpy

I can't stress enough how important your post is.

I'm glad it helped.

[InterrogationBear]

Well, that certainly explains why so many games have weird UIs and somewhat broken controls. 

 

Some studios, like Creative Assembly, keep releasing games with broken UI after they spent month to fix the predecessors UI.

[Ashnarug]

I have been a fan of Bioware since the first Baldur Gate game.

 

Bioware should take better care of the PC gamers as we  are the ones responsible for them to develop in such a great company.

 

I have been plagued with constant issues with the game, k&m being one of them. I cannot play with a gamepad due to a handicap in my right hand (not much dexterity in it).

 

First there was the now infamous DirectX issue that for some reason has stopped. GOOD! then there was the choppy cutscenes which there was a command line solution in another post on this forum (-GameTime.MaxSimFps 60 -GameTime.ForceSimRate 60+).

 

I fervently hope that Bioware is aware that the gamers are founding the solutions for them. I hope however that they will not wait for us to find solutions for the k&m issue.

 

[Gwydion19]

Please Bioware,

Give us controls similar to DA: O. Those controls were perfect. The current control scheme is terrible. The first boss fight was not epic and difficult as I had hoped it would be. It was irritating for one reason the rift was extremely difficult to use. This one issue is truly harming my game experience.

[Stoffermann]

I just got my refund.  I'm actually very happy with the customer service side of it, and when and if I see that the PC community is happy with the UI and interface I will repurchase the game. 

[Neol Shendis]

I dislike FPS games but I LOVE CRPGs (including FPS/RPGs like Mass Effect of course, because the controls WORK... mostly).  I played the original ME on both the Xbox and PC, and I much prefer the PC port apart from the Inventory.  I cannot use the gamepad/console controllers as they are too imprecise for me - probably because I don't play FPS games.

 

So in DAI I am made to switch to using/controlling a ranged rogue NPC as my PC and let the computer control my PC, because I hate the click fest/struggle to get my PC to hit what I actually want him to hit.  As a matter of fact, I would suggest others do the same if they also don't like FPS games.  Control the rogue, use the mouse to view and target, left click to fire, and let your tanks do their job properly (rather than swinging at thin air!).   Yes I know it defeats the purpose of controlling your PC, but hey.    I can cope with using the rogue as my PC instead, but FFS why can't I click on an object or loot and my PC walk to within range and "do it"?  It's bloody awful.  

 

When I saw the tactical camera video on the internet I thought it was a good enough reason to go back to the DA universe, shame it's nerfed.

 

Oh I miss the days of a good tactical view with AEO spells, spell chaining, heal and strategy... oh yes like in DAO. DAO I played many times, DA2 I played once.

I have played all Bioware RPG games since Baldur's gate and to be honest this has gone like ME3 in that I almost don't consider it to be a proper RPG.  It's a beautiful FPS with crappy controls IMHO.

 

In fact I was going to give it to my kids to test (who love FPS games) but I can't because it's an adult game.

[Brogan]

I'm typically not one to complain about controls - I've played a lot of games with a lot of control schemes...but whoever designed the PC one for DA:I...didn't know what he was doing. There are some complaints in this thread that make me shake my head, because a lot of similar PC games use them (Like the WASD and no P&C thing when in TPS mode, I've played quite a few MMO's that force this so it's nothing new, at least to me), however there's quite a few problems here that are just confusing. I'm not sure how this passed QC.

1. I have this annoying issue where the mouse, when holding down camera movement and turning the mouse, will flip out and do a complete 180 instantly. It's INSANELY disorienting. I've lost track of what's going on due to this more than a few times. I changed my Camera Movement Speed down all the way and it doesn't fix it. Sometimes a tiny flick of the mouse will set it off.
2. I agree 100% with the entire pickup thing. Hell, the entire Search System is gawdawful. Why do I need to be constantly mashing V to see loot, materials, and Points of Interest? I can understand using it to investigate scenes for quests, but everything else that's forced into this system is absolutely absurd. My index finger hurts because it has to be in such a horrid location, constantly mashing V, so that I can see the objects on the terrain. This system needs a complete revamp. It's completely unnecessary, and from what I can tell it doesn't even have a point. Why is loot hidden from view unless I press V, or am on top of it? It's stupid.
3. The entire targeting system is bogus.  When the game auto-targets for me, it doesn't tell me ANYTHING about the enemy at all. I have to manually click them. But oh wait, I'm holding down the LMB so that I can attack...and when I'm doing that my cursor is invisible. So how do I get information about the monster? I can't! I can hope Tab hits them but that's going to target other monsters first, especially if I'm ranged. I lose track of my cursor in combat frequently due to it disappearing like this, it's frustrating as all hell.
4. What's the point of the tooltips? They tell you nothing at all.
5. I haven't seen a game use A and D for Turn Left/Right since DooM. For the past twenty years, any FPS or TPS game I've played uses A and D for Strafing Left/Right, and Q/E for Turning Left/Right. The fact that the camera in the Tactical Camera also turns on A/D just makes this even worse. Have the people who developed this played TPS/Top down games before? The camera controls are just stupid.
6. I barely use the Tactical Camera...because it's pretty much pointless. It needs to zoom out A LOT more. If I haven't seen the spot I want to camera pan to, just Fog of War it. Why limit us with this crappy camera?
7. The Equipment/Character/Inventory UI's are clearly not designed with a PC gamer in mind. Also it feels like my character order is different every time I open it. Sometimes when I press left from my main character, I get one character on my party, and other times I get someone else completely. It's very strange.

The PC controls and UI need a massive rehash. They're bad.

 

Yup, I'm not keen on experiencing any of that, so I'll definitely wait for a patch to install.

 

And I think you are making a big assumption when you say it passed QC.

[Brogan]

First off, I've been in game-dev for some years and regarding engines developed by Crytek, Epic or Dice et al, I can tell you there's no such thing technically as hard-coded. These are not Black-Box entities! All source code is available to developers utilising these engines and from a technical standpoint it has to be in order to provide the greatest technical flexibility open to whoever chooses to use them. 

 

Now that said, while there are no limitations per se, there are some technical dangers associated with straying too far from specific core engine principles. However, to put everyone’s mind at ease the control input system isn't one of those dangers. Well if that’s the case how is it possible the control system has been poorly implemented/designed this way.

 

Well the sad truth is that this area (Input System, including UI) is often left to individuals/coders with less than epic experience. After-all the cream jobs like render, physics/collision detection, AI and say animation systems to name a few, are usually handed out to the more experienced programmers. Senior or lead coders wont find it stretching/challenging enough is the reason. I'm not saying these other individuals will never be any good but its more than likely they wouldn't have the game-dev experience or be technically competent to be let loose on the more crucial intricacies of game development.

 

It just goes to show that inexperienced programmers shouldn't really be given these (control system) tasks or if they are someone should be watching over them right? Well hell yeah but it appears that someone took their eye off the ball with this one I'm afraid. It shouldn't happen but it does and I'm positive you have all seen poor control systems and bad UI in games before YES?

 

So it can be fixed and should be for a game like Dragon Age and especially PC gamers ... the control system is an essential element and should be given higher priority than it often is and its pretty fundamental IMHO. 

 

Just my two penneth.   

 

Yup, there's no doubt something like that happened here.  And I would also not be shocked to learn there was a severe resource/time restriction placed on the person(s) in charge of designing the pc control scheme as it currently exists.

 

Hopefully the post-release patching and support process will allow for a more experienced and logical thinking engineer to ensure things are fixed the right way.

[Vash654]

Tactical Cam seems unusable to me.  To me it seems like it was specifically designed for consoles, you have a cursor on the ground, as if your supposed to be moving it with a joystick.  They need to get rid of the cursor on the ground and just give us a better viewing angle and everything should just be point and click.  No moving the camera with WASD.

 

 

I would also like to enjoy combat in 3rd person view but with not having an autoattack and the awkward controls it makes it a pain in the ass.  Really 3rd person and tactical view should not be two separate modes for pc,  I should blend seamlessly into one, it worked great in DAO

[Klystron]

First off, I've been in game-dev for some years and regarding engines developed by Crytek, Epic or Dice et al, I can tell you there's no such thing technically as hard-coded. These are not Black-Box entities! All source code is available to developers utilising these engines and from a technical standpoint it has to be in order to provide the greatest technical flexibility open to whoever chooses to use them. 

 

Now that said, while there are no limitations per se, there are some technical dangers associated with straying too far from specific core engine principles. However, to put everyone’s mind at ease the control input system isn't one of those dangers. Well if that’s the case how is it possible the control system has been poorly implemented/designed this way.

 

Well the sad truth is that this area (Input System, including UI) is often left to individuals/coders with less than epic experience. After-all the cream jobs like render, physics/collision detection, AI and say animation systems to name a few, are usually handed out to the more experienced programmers. Senior or lead coders wont find it stretching/challenging enough is the reason. I'm not saying these other individuals will never be any good but its more than likely they wouldn't have the game-dev experience or be technically competent to be let loose on the more crucial intricacies of game development.

 

It just goes to show that inexperienced programmers shouldn't really be given these (control system) tasks or if they are someone should be watching over them right? Well hell yeah but it appears that someone took their eye off the ball with this one I'm afraid. It shouldn't happen but it does and I'm positive you have all seen poor control systems and bad UI in games before YES?

 

So it can be fixed and should be for a game like Dragon Age and especially PC gamers ... the control system is an essential element and should be given higher priority than it often is and its pretty fundamental IMHO. 

 

Just my two penneth.   

Yes!  Furthermore, if a game is believed to be un-moddable (by players) then the game design needs to be held to a much higher standard.  Not a little better, it needs to be taken to a whole new level.

 

Having worked in several situations where a good company has been swallowed by a much bigger company, I would not be at all surprised if schedule and budget constraints were involved here. 

 

Edit:  I'm going to have nightmares about being the person who has to explain the idea in my 1st paragraph to an executive who hasn't played a video game since Mario but thinks that makes him an authority on gaming. 

[Lostspace]

First off, I've been in game-dev for some years and regarding engines developed by Crytek, Epic or Dice et al, I can tell you there's no such thing technically as hard-coded. These are not Black-Box entities! All source code is available to developers utilising these engines and from a technical standpoint it has to be in order to provide the greatest technical flexibility open to whoever chooses to use them. 

 

Now that said, while there are no limitations per se, there are some technical dangers associated with straying too far from specific core engine principles. However, to put everyone’s mind at ease the control input system isn't one of those dangers. Well if that’s the case how is it possible the control system has been poorly implemented/designed this way.

 

Well the sad truth is that this area (Input System, including UI) is often left to individuals/coders with less than epic experience. After-all the cream jobs like render, physics/collision detection, AI and say animation systems to name a few, are usually handed out to the more experienced programmers. Senior or lead coders wont find it stretching/challenging enough is the reason. I'm not saying these other individuals will never be any good but its more than likely they wouldn't have the game-dev experience or be technically competent to be let loose on the more crucial intricacies of game development.

 

It just goes to show that inexperienced programmers shouldn't really be given these (control system) tasks or if they are someone should be watching over them right? Well hell yeah but it appears that someone took their eye off the ball with this one I'm afraid. It shouldn't happen but it does and I'm positive you have all seen poor control systems and bad UI in games before YES?

 

So it can be fixed and should be for a game like Dragon Age and especially PC gamers ... the control system is an essential element and should be given higher priority than it often is and its pretty fundamental IMHO. 

 

Just my two penneth.   

 

So, given your technical/development knowledge, could they put back the controls (mouse in particular) into DAI that existed in DAO and DA2?

[VeCtrum]

I think that people needs something like this.

1) Right-click on the ground to move.

2) Right-click on enemy to move + autoattack.

3) Do not start attack on left-mouse-click on the ground.

4) In tactic mode more camera oprions. Like camera-moving on touching border of screen.

5) PLEASE detach aim from center of screen in tactic. Its so horrible.

 

agreed bring back controls from DA:O and DA2

[SnQQpy]

Yes!  Furthermore, if a game is believed to be un-moddable (by players) then the game design needs to be held to a much higher standard.  Not a little better, it needs to be taken to a whole new level.

 

Having worked in several situations where a good company has been swallowed by a much bigger company, I would not be at all surprised if schedule and budget constraints were involved here. 

 

Edit:  I'm going to have nightmares about being the person who has to explain the idea in my 1st paragraph to an executive who hasn't played a video game since Mario but thinks that makes him an authority on gaming. 

Your points are valid ones my friend 

 

In relation to the difficulty of the control tasks, this isn't a complex one in the scheme of things I assure you. But on the other hand I wouldn't charge a coder with this task who has only programmed for console platforms. It assuredly requires a background in PC-game dev and better still first hand experience of PC gaming to understand what essentially works and what does not.

 

In this case most here appear to agree - myself included - this does not work! It will almost certainly require a re-evaluation of players needs. Perhaps a rewrite or maybe significant amendment to the code.

[Brogan]

Your points are valid ones my friend 

 

In relation to the difficulty of the control tasks, this isn't a complex one in the scheme of things I assure you. But on the other hand I wouldn't charge a coder with this task who has only programmed for console platforms. It assuredly requires a background in PC-game dev and better still first hand experience of PC gaming to understand what essentially works and what does not.

 

In this case most here appear to agree - myself included - this does not work! It will almost certainly require a re-evaluation of players needs. Perhaps a rewrite or maybe significant amendment to the code.

 

[SnQQpy]

So, given your technical/development knowledge, could they put back the controls (mouse in particular) into DAI that existed in DAO and DA2?

 

The very quick answer is YES. I've yet to play DA:I personally - I get my copy tomorrow.  Though I would say there are caveats.

 

I've listened carefully to how the game is designed in respect of gameplay so the game mechanic and structure are not the same - so the implementation will differ but the feel and play control-wise is possible - given the gameplay constraints remember.  It cannot be a matter of copy/paste, I'm sure you realise it doesn't work like that but yes the essence of the play as in earlier games could be incorporated.

[Nimlowyn]

My player needs are: point and click gameplay. In DAO and DA2 I used the mouse for everything except esc for the menu and spacebar for pause. I expected DAI to play this way. Had no reason not to!

 

I appreciate that Bioware is listening to our concerns. I wonder if "looking into it" means that a return to point and click is even a possibility. I need to know from Bioware if my expectations are realistic. 

[Yagathai]

Another thing: Trying to find the "right" way to jump up onto an area is driving me insane. I'll spend ten minutes with these extremely bad controls figuring out the exact path that the game will let me climb a hill, visually almost indistinguishable from all the "wrong" paths that you can't climb. In the meantime, my companions are running all up in the unclimbable areas, until I change control to them when they fall off. Give us auto pathfinding, or a way to tell how to climb a hill, or better controls!

[girofmagic]

 

 

Here's how the game just "worked" for me just now:  I'm running around, camera over my shoulder, using WASD to move and pressing space to jump over rocks.  I can't move move with left+right mouse buttons like other RPGs and the previous DA game, but it's at least semi functional.  

 

I see an enemy up ahead.  So I zoom out to enter tactical mode.  Camera pulls straight up into a tree, and I can't see a thing but tree branches.  I readjust the camera so the tree isn't blocking the view, but it still doesn't zoom out far enough to see the enemies, just half my party, cause the other half is too far away, just like the enemies are too far away.   

 

So now, I have a tactical view of tree branches and two of my character's heads.  Which would be great if I had two people in my party.  And we were fighting a tree.  But we're not.  

 

So I pan around.  Not with my mouse cursor, but with the second cursor.  Yes, there's two entirely separate cursors, and the mouse cursor doesn't pan the screen around when you put it at the edge of the screen, only the second cursor moves the screen.  And I have to use the keyboard to control the second cursor, but instead of being moved with the WASD keys, like virtually every game I've ever played (and Dragon Age), it's moved via QWES- totally backwards from the keys I was just moving around the world with. 

 

So now I want to move some of my characters into position and attack.  So I click on a portrait, and the game recenters the camera on that character, so I have to re-drag the camera back over to the enemies, via cursor # 2.  And I'm going to have to do this all for every single character, after every single attack.  

 

So anyways, I set it all up, and unpause it.  But it doesn't unpause, because spacebar isn't pause like every other realtime+pause RPG since Baldur's Gate, it's another key.  And not even something that makes sense, like for example, the button that puts you into tactical mode.  

 

But whatever.  There's a fight going on, and I press tab to switch targets.  Does it switch targets?  Nope.  I switches which enemy I'm getting a tooltip for.  So now I'm attacking one enemy, but getting targeting details for another.  Which totally makes sense, right?

 

I'm switching between characters now, slowing working through the fight, and I want to know what one of the tanking abilities does.  So I mouse over it.  What info does the tooltip give?  It doesn't tell me what the ability does, or how much damage it causes, or whether it's an AOE, or anything sensible.  It tells me what the keybinding for it is.  But that's already given right at the corner of the ability slot, always onscreen.  So why on earth is that the only info the tooltip gives?

 

Ten minutes of camera adjusting and tree branch staring later, the fight ends.  I click on the loot, but my characters don't go get it, I have to manually run over to each piece of loot.  And since the game doesn't enter/exit tactical mode when combat starts/stops, I'm still in tactical mode, and the camera is still stuck in place.  So my characters run off into the distance, while the camera stays stuck next to a tree.

 

 

Edit: Oh, and I keep shooting randomly while walking around inbetween fights.  Because in tactical mode, right click is attack, and left click is select, but outside tactical mode, left click is attack and right click activates objects.  And you can't change your mouse button's keybindings to fix any of this.

 

Edit2: And did I mention that you can't select multiple characters?  No selecting your three ranged/DPS guys or your melee characters and pointing them all towards an enemy, you have to set each one up separately, readjusting the camera every single time.

 

Edit3: And did I mention that you can't zoom out far enough to see the rifts and close them?  This is a central part of the game, and you can't do it in tactical mode.

 

Oh yes these need fixing. I cant tell you how bad my middle mouse scroll wheel has been making me bonkers! I still want to use the middle mouse wheel for zooming and then I go into tackical mode each time with bad camera angles. And yes I too had a hard time getting to the icons to close the rifts. Please fix this asap.