44 réponses à ce sujet

[Pepperstorm]

In the military its "Yes, sir! - No, sir!" not "Yes, sir or ma'am! - No, sir or ma'am"

[massive_effect]

No, I'd call my father Dad. 

 

That's my point. Just as you would not call your father "mom", in real life we would not refer to men as "ma'am".

 

Some people in this tread find "ma'am" demeaning, or of lower stature. It is not. "Ma'am" is the highest form of respect for a woman. It is equal to "Sir".

[massive_effect]

In the military its "Yes, sir! - No, sir!" not "Yes, sir or ma'am! - No, sir or ma'am"

 

I served in the military. You say "Yes, Ma'am!"

 

You watch too much bad sci-fi. (I do like bad sci-fi sometimes).

[AlanC9]

I served in the military. You say "Yes, Ma'am!"
 
You watch too much bad sci-fi. (I do like bad sci-fi sometimes).

I wouldn't say it's bad sci-fi. There's no particular reason to think that "ma'am" is going to last forever, though I suppose this sort of thing will last longest in the military.

[Lady Luminous]

That's my point. Just as you would not call your father "mom", in real life we would not refer to men as "ma'am".

 

Some people in this tread find "ma'am" demeaning, or of lower stature. It is not. "Ma'am" is the highest form of respect for a woman. It is equal to "Sir".

 

How do you find the way DA2 handled it then? Ser vs Serah? 

[massive_effect]

How do you find the way DA2 handled it then? Ser vs Serah? 

 

I didn't know it was "Ser" vs "Serah". I thought it was "Serah" for everyone (but I only played female avatars.)

 

If it was Ser and Serah, that would be better. But, the lore isn't compelling enough to justify a change from Sir/Ma'am to Ser/Serah.

[Lady Luminous]

I didn't know it was "Ser" vs "Serah". I thought it was "Serah" for everyone (but I only played female avatars.)

 

If it was Ser and Serah, that would be better. But, the lore isn't compelling enough to justify a change from Sir/Ma'am to Ser/Serah.

 

It's medieval terminology. You aren't playing a game set in modern times, why would you use modern terminology? 

[massive_effect]

It's medieval terminology. You aren't playing a game set in modern times, why would you use modern terminology? 

 

Medieval terms were:

Lady, Miss, Mistress, Madame

 

Ser vs Serah is not based on this precedent. It's androgynous gobbledygook.

 

If you want to change the language, it should be based on precedent to feel realistic. The language in DA is modern English. It's not a fictional language like Lord of the Rings.

[Lady Luminous]

Medieval terms were:

Lady, Miss, Mistress, Madame

 

Ser vs Serah is not based on this precedent. It's androgynous gobbledygook.

 

If you want to change the language, it should be based on precedent to feel realistic. The language in DA is modern English. It's not a fictional language like Lord of the Rings.

 

Considering that it's used in multiple fantasy novel series, I think it's a perfectly acceptable title. 

[AEve1]

Medieval terms were:

Lady, Miss, Mistress, Madame

 

Ser vs Serah is not based on this precedent. It's androgynous gobbledygook.

 

If you want to change the language, it should be based on precedent to feel realistic. The language in DA is modern English. It's not a fictional language like Lord of the Rings.

In Middle English, Sir and Sirrah (spelling not standardized) were both masculine titles, the first of which was used for knights and nobility and the second of which was a broader and occasionally insulting term. In Thedas, Ser is a gender-neutral title for a knight or templar (eg Ser Cauthrien, Ser Aveline, Ser Wesley) and Serah is a gender-neutral general title (eg Serah Hawke, "please stop kicking the wall Serah"). The connection seems pretty obvious to me. The only real difference is that "Serah" seems more polite in Thedas, and that both terms can be used for both men and women.

 

Dame and Mistress may have been used in real-world medieval England, but if so they were used for married women who managed a household, not for female knights. Why would Bioware borrow terms that have the connotation of "married, stay-at-home," for warriors, rogues, and mages, especially when "Ser" is clearly different from "Sir," but evokes the same connotations of respect and authority? It would be bad storytelling.

 

And, uh, what's unrealistic about gender-neutral titles? Or maybe we need to go inform a number of Gender Studies departments that they should stop calling their female faculty "Dr So-and-so"...?

 

Seriously, I don't see the issue. There's no compelling lore reason to call male and female characters by different terms. In fact, Ser Aveline's example is actually a pretty good reason for the opposite to happen, since she fought under the guise of a male knight, calling herself "Ser. " The female Orlesian knights that followed would have respected and honored her, so they'd probably use the same title for that reason if no other.

[Lady Mutare]

I also served in the military and I am female, and we did refer to a person by pronoun, Sir or Ma'am.

[Devlin Cousland]

My opinion: The gender neutral options made this game easier to create and as well made it somewhat smaller in file size. By using gender neutral terms, they eliminated the need for extra dialogue from npcs/companions/etc. There were some cases where there were different lines depending on your gender (the first example that comes to mind is Ser Perth from DAO, referring to the Warden by a title that the player chooses, be it Ser, my Lord/my Lady, or Warden).

 

And just to clarify, cuz I'm not sure everyone who responded is aware, but both Ser and Serah are gender-neutral. I played both genders in both previous games and had instances of my Wardens and Hawke being called both terms regardless of gender. I believe, however, that Ser is for military and Serah is for nobility. I'd like to know what "messere" is used for and if it's also gender-neutral.

 

Also, I haven't heard of a gender recognition glitch in DAI? Can anyone fill me in on it? Is it actually a glitch or is it confusion over the Ser thing?

[Kantr]

Serah was how they adressed you in Kirkwall as a noble. Ser was in DA:O

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

In real life, no females are called "Sir". They're called "Miss" or "Ma'am".

 

Not sure what this has to do with Dragon Age's fictional setting.

 

But in any case,  many gender-specific terms by today's standards, were not gender-specific historically.

 

The word "Man" in English, for example, did not originally have a gender specific meaning. It meant something similar to "person" (from the Indo) or "One" (from the Germanic.)

[Bann Duncan]

I love how most posts in this thread are completely ignoring the fact that they are not in fact saying "Sir" at all.

[NRieh]

 

I also served in the military and I am female, and we did refer to a person by pronoun, Sir or Ma'am.

It's a modern military you're talking about. 

[Sully13]

alass tis bur a work of fiction.

 

i have a story on the works whith a female king. 

[Soldatto Rosso]

I find it hilarious to read civilians saying that female officers should be called "Sir." As someone who is former military, if I ever called a female superior (whether officer or senior enlisted) "Sir" then I would be lucky to get off with a vicious verbal reprimand followed by a month of watch duty or latrine clean-up. 

 

Frankly I find it sexist that people would see anything feminine as weak, as well as the belief that to show proper respect to a woman you have to call her by a male title. 

 

But on topic though, the honorific the NPCs use is "ser" not "sir," which is a gender-neutral form of address. So, in DA:I anyway, it works.

[Pepperstorm]

I served 10 years military, Pre-Clinton it was Sir. =)

[Efrim]

My thoughts are that gender-neutral Ser and Serah rock. I hope they keep them forever in this universe and seeing as this is the third game, (and  all of the tie-in fiction utilize them as well) I think I can breathe a sigh of relief and expect them to stay.