67 réponses à ce sujet

[Capeo]

Are the folks complaining unaware of these things called regeneration potions? They're good for topping yourself off between fights. I don't understand how people are burning through potions so fast while exploring. Especially since you should be going back to base at least once per hour to keep your war room missions flowing. And since you can fast travel back to camps and camps are quite generously spread throughout maps I don't see where all this trekking is coming from.

[Khevar]

The point is that we shouldn't have to trek in the first place. One excess is just as bad as the other, except for the fact that DAO's excess gave users a choice and DAI's does not.

 

Look, I get the fact that you don't like the change.

 

But your reaction seems overboard to me.  You're acting like the game is unplayable.

 

Are you not claiming camps?  Are you not returning to base to kick off advisor missions?  Are you not using guard / barrier?  Have to not unlocked rejuv potions?  Do you not have any crowd control abilities in your party?  Are you playing at too high a difficulty level?

[Abraham_uk]

Funny that.

 

No one complains about lack of healing abilities in Mass Effect.

You get some medigel and well it restores some health and revives an ally.

 

Medigel is few in all three games and well, if you play really well you'll never need medigel anyway. Even on Insanity.

 

 

That said, is it just me or are the Dragon Age games much harder than Mass Effect?

Probably why people want healing abilities so badly.

 

If I find Normal difficulty too difficult (which I probably will at times) I'll just go for casual. If I find casual difficulty too difficult I'll consult these forums for tips.

 

 

 

However if people want to play a healer because they love that spec, yeah I can see where they're coming from. There are no druids, clerics, paladins, monks or bards in Dragon Age Inquisition either.

[Proteus7]

Sounds like you need to turn the difficulty down.

 

Higher levels of difficulty require actual tactics.  Guard, Barrier, Crowd Control, Combos, Combat Pause, Tac Cam, Kill Order, etc. all reduce your need for health potions.

 

Most players whinging about healing in this game just aren't good at the combat mechanics.  So turn the difficulty down.  Once you figure out what you're doing, turn it back up.

 

Case in point, I run a healer in SW:TOR.  When I wind up with a group of crappy players that have no idea what they're doing I have to work my butt off trying desperately to keep everyone alive.  But when I get a group of good players that follow strategy, know their class, can avoid damage, use CC, etc I have very little healing to do. The fact you think it is a "complete travesty" that healing was changed in this game tells me you rely on it as a crutch.

 

Luckily, this is a single player game, so you can turn the difficulty down until you actually learn how to play.

 

/shrug

Nobody cares what you do in the Star Wars MMO, but that really is a super cool story. I find it ironic that while chastising others for wanting healing, you go on to tell us tales of your feats in a game that has.......healing.  

 

The problem has nothing to do with the game's difficulty. It has to do with the fact that teleporting back to a tent to heal up is just incredibly lame, even if you're only doing it occasionally. You also failed to even attempt to explain how this non-healing system is in any way superior to the previous two iterations of the game, (because you can't). 

[Capeo]

Nobody cares what you do in the Star Wars MMO, but that really is a super cool story. I find it ironic that while chastising others for wanting healing, you go on to tell us tales of your feats in a game that has.......healing.  

 

The problem has nothing to do with the game's difficulty. It has to do with the fact that teleporting back to a tent to heal up is just incredibly lame, even if you're only doing it occasionally. You also failed to even attempt to explain how this non-healing system is in any way superior to the previous two iterations of the game, (because you can't). 

It's superior, in my opinion, because it punishes you for playing badly.  Something many more games should do in this age of endless checkpoints and regenerating health.  And given that fast travel is abundant in this game and there's never more than a few minute walk between games it's not even much of a punishment at that.

[Khevar]

 

Nobody cares what you do in the Star Wars MMO

 

You cared enough to comment on it.   

 

I find it ironic that while chastising others for wanting healing, you go on to tell us tales of your feats in a game that has.......healing.

 

Am I chastising people for wanting healing?  Wasn't my intention.

 

I suppose if I'm chastising anything, it would be the hyperbole that the lack of healing has somehow ruined the game or made it completely unplayable.

 

For what it's worth, if there were infinite healing pots and lots of healing magic in DA:I I'd have no objection to using it.  I'm okay either way.  But, since I happen to like the current healing change, I keep posting in threads about it to provide an alternate viewpoint to you "doom and gloomers"

 

Oh, and since the point of my TOR story went over your head, I'll spell it out with small words:

 

Players that require extra healing in TOR aren't very skilled at playing the game.

 

It's entirely possible that this is true for DA:I as well.  Thus my recommendation to turn down the difficulty.

 

The problem has nothing to do with the game's difficulty. It has to do with the fact that teleporting back to a tent to heal up is just incredibly lame, even if you're only doing it occasionally.

 

Why not go FORWARD to the next campsite instead of BACKWARD to the last one?

 

You also failed to even attempt to explain how this non-healing system is in any way superior to the previous two iterations of the game, (because you can't). 

 

Superior?  I'm not going to claim that combat in DA:I is remotely superior to DA:O.  Much prefer DA:O (for other reasons).

 

However, I have to admit combat in DA:O is trivialized by infinite health potions and heal magic.  In DA:I, I have to be more careful while exploring and fighting.  And I've occasionally had to flee a bad combat situation.  It adds a certain zest to my personal gameplay experience that was absent from DA:O.

[Abraham_uk]

I really have a problem with "no one cares" being used in conversation.

 

 

1) Clearly the person who made the post one is dismissing cares.

2) Quite likely that other people care.

3) This doesn't even constitute a rebuttal.

4) It's just mean spirited.

 

 

Rebut the post. Disagree by all means.

If you must post "no one cares", I'll give your post it's due recognition by not reading any further.

[Lady Luminous]

If playing on casual, after the fight my party gets bumped back up to half health. So I play for as long as I possibly can without running to camp, and just save really frequently. 

[yankblan]

I am completely fine with the healing side of things. I think making healing potions free and automatically refilling them when you return to camp more than offsets the need for after-battle health regeneration. I am playing on Hard with FF on and I can play for quite a while before needing to refill. Storywise it also makes sense that your characters have to take a break every so often too. I also like how it makes skills like guard more important (though I admit guard took me a while to figure out). 

 

When you head off to a new area, go establish a new camp first so that you don't have to walk too far. 

 

They are not "free", it takes one elfroot per potion/regen.

[Parallax Demon]

Am playing on Hard and it's really getting very annoying that I have to go back to an outpost after every three or four fights.

 

Don't know how it's on PC or PS, but on the One tactical combat is not working very well for me. It's confusing as hell and I stoped using it after 30 minutes into the game. The lack of a booklet and/or good tutorials I could read / view probably will have me turn to Youtube to watch a video in which it's explained. Till then I have to rely on the AI.

 

And can someone please tell me where to get the recipe for the regenpotion? Am level five and now doing all the sidequests in the first area with a mage who need 30 seconds to kill a mountaingoat.

[PhroXenGold]

You also failed to even attempt to explain how this non-healing system is in any way superior to the previous two iterations of the game, (because you can't). 

 

The non-healing, attrition based system is superior as no longer does every encounter have to be designed to be able to completely kill your party. Instead, encounters can be designed to only take away part of your resources. As a result, there is far more flexibility and variety available in encounter design.

[sojourner]

 I despise turn-based combat, which is what that would essentially become.

 

If you're not going to use much of the tactical camera, you're going to get creamed in battles. I learned that the hard way on my first character, as

i was just getting to grips on the gameplay and combat mechanics. On my second character, i have improved as i use the tactical camera in almost

every fight.

 

I do not know how it works on the pc, but on ps3, pressing "R2" advances time and you can use it to speed up or slow down combat, even up to almost

a standstill. I believe i have become better at combat because of that. On most fights now, my party barely gets hurt. Judicious use of war cry, guard on

my sword and shield warriors have protected my party and i've grown to love them along with the tactical camera.

[finc.loki]

Of course I restock potions - I rarely have to go back for it however. Eiher I have enough for doing a certain more difficult quest and then I just fast travel to camp (I have to go back to quest giver usually anyway), or during exploring I just check out where is the next camp I haven't discovered yet, and slowly make my way there. 

 

So far I had to go back to camp before finishing quest like one time (in ~12 hours of gameplay).

In regular fights with 2-4 enemies around my level I usually don't take damage at all. Threat management, AEO, focusing fire on one target, fear/freeze. barrier and guard, tank can use Shield Wall to completely block damage from enemies in front of him...  

Closing Rifts on the other hand usually taxes me to maximum. 

I play on Nightmare with friendly fire on. 

So then you fall into the trap of "where is the challenge"? Where is the epic fights of being worried about being wiped? How about feeling powerful taking out 10 low level enemies and face elites and get a challenge.

DA2 made that into perfection. The game lacked the tactical cam, but it was really fun to play the combat.

 

Now instead we get 4 enemies every single time, they all (if same level) feels like trudgery of "oh joy now I get to whack this common NON special enemy 10 times and rinse and repeat for the rest" and then you move on and "oh look the exact same scenario again".

 

Ever wonder why it is almost always 4 enemies vs your 4 party members.

[finc.loki]

This was an interesting discussion until this post happened...  someone exercising their loudmouth gene.  Everything was civil until...

 

Regardless, it's not a question of NEVER going back to replenish potion stock, it's a question of not having to do so frequently.  If you're going back to camp after every altercation, then you're not mitigating damage very well, and you're not playing smart.  

So this is Dragon Age: The damage mitigation game or micro controlling your stupid AI party without tactics game.

 

Some are easily pleased.

It is not about playing smart it's about having FUN. I do not find it fun to feel the need for constant barrier spam or micromanaging everything.

[finc.loki]

There are some contributors to this thread that I keep picturing as chunky babies, holding their breath until they get their way...  Just whining for the sake of whining.  The removal of healing and health regen has boosted the enjoyment of this game significantly.

Boosted the enjoyment for YOU. I find it stupid, but only your opinion matters, right.

 

I find you a sycophant.

[finc.loki]

The non-healing, attrition based system is superior as no longer does every encounter have to be designed to be able to completely kill your party. Instead, encounters can be designed to only take away part of your resources. As a result, there is far more flexibility and variety available in encounter design.

How exactly is that exciting? Listen to your own words, " Only take away part of your resources".

Where is the excitement in that? It removes the visceral fun of combat and make it into a resource management game and barrier spam.

 

Why wouldn't the game be designed to "kill your party". Isn't the the point? The whole party dying is the 'game over' risk. It's the danger of you being solo and risk of dying in a NON party game.

 

A game shouldn't be about attrition of resources and whittle you down. It is boring.

 

Also, this game is the LEAST flexible game of all Dragon Age games, it is extremely rigid and predictable. It has the same encounter over and over and over. Always 4 enemies basically. All have higher health meaning the battle last long because they are all damage soakers. There is a distinct lack of feeling like "YEAH I just wasted that whole group of enemies, I am awesome". It is trudgery. Whackamole of who can last the longest before the next resupply at a camp.

[DarthGizka]

A lot of good arguments have been brought on both sides. For me, the most interesting of them seem to boil down to this:

 

Pro#1: DAI's attrition-based system is an intesting new take on the healing question

Pro#2: the system succeeds in making players feel the attrition

Pro#3: negative effects are reduced if good use is made of regen pots and the - amply provided - camps

Pro#4: the new system weeds out losers who can't be arsed to learn how to fight

 

Con#1: yes, but the tedium of it all!

 

I guess everyone agrees that Pro#1 is indubitably true. I formulated Pro#4 in a somewhat elitist, adversarial way but I do see a benefit in the following sense: unrestricted potion availability in DAO encouraged new players to muddle on and on and to solve problems by throwing potions at them, without ever picking up any fighting skills. Until they met an enemy who could not be defeated on the strength of big potion stacks alone, at which point they were utterly at sea, without a clue how to remedy. Conversely, the best way of picking up fighting skills in DAO was to start solo and to regard every consumed potion as a resounding defeat. The new system may encourage new players to pick up skills earlier, to escape the horrifying prospect of never-ending drudgery.

 

I contend that #Pro2 is patently false precisely because #Pro3 is true. That is to say, dwindling resources do not hold the prospect of death, they only promise even more tedium.

[alienman]

Did all mages just forgot how to heal? Why can I only bring 8 potions with me for all of my team, while I can carry several tens of kilos of loot? Why can't I make any more potions on the field? People in this world could do that before, they just mixed some herbs into a flask and voila! New potion. It's like everyone just lost a bit of intelligence since the last blight. Even lore wise it does not make sense. At one point in the game your character can even question a doctor why she is not using mages to heal the injured people. I just could not believe it.

 

The main problem I have with this, there is no real explanation for anything here. It's just there because of game-play. Bioware wanted to change it. It just kills the immersion for me, and puts a limit on things. Messed up but survived? Be ready to trek back. No more potions in a boss fight, say good night! And what is up with the short dungeons... been playing for over 20 hours now, and not one long dungeon yet. What the hell. Is it because of the potion system? Wouldn't surprise me at all.

[Lady Luminous]

Answer me this. 

Do you find yourself in need to run back to a camp every so often to replenish potions, or do you NEVER take damage?

If you answer or lie and not admit to having to restock potions you are a hypocrite.

 

It doesn't matter what level you play on you cannot avoid damage in this game, PERIOD. You can take less damage sure, but you WILL take damage.

This leads the game to sooner or later of you having to fast travel back for potions and then having to run all the way back again.

 

It is FN IDIOTIC as a system. You cannot mitigate ALL the damage via barriers.

 

They should have made it that you still have limitations of potions such as the 8 or 12 with upgrade, but you can LOOT them as you play the game here and there. So you can progress instead of the 2 steps forwards 1 step back.

Second after every fight there should be full auto-regen for your party.

 

Their whole difficulty in this game is 100% centered on your limitations of potions. That is it. Then to hide the fact you in essence have unlimited supply, they make it a NUISANCE and annoyance to have to trek back to camp. Fast travel means nothing since you have to walk all the way back.

 

What the F were they thinking? You make games FUN not a nuisance.

 

There was nothing wrong in previous games. A select few nerdy tactical cam nightmare players complained about the healing/potion system of previous games.

I had FUN playing DA2 combat. Now I play the "potion game".

 

No I do not take excessive damage, I can handle the difficulty. It's the INEVITABLE attrition of potions and needing to go back to get new ones that is so utterly idiotic that I want to hurt kittens.

 

Are you not establishing extra camps in the area? I mean there's a little back-trekking, but for the most part I always have a camp pretty near to where I am.

[finc.loki]

Funny that.

 

No one complains about lack of healing abilities in Mass Effect.

You get some medigel and well it restores some health and revives an ally.

 

Medigel is few in all three games and well, if you play really well you'll never need medigel anyway. Even on Insanity.

 

 

That said, is it just me or are the Dragon Age games much harder than Mass Effect?

Probably why people want healing abilities so badly.

 

If I find Normal difficulty too difficult (which I probably will at times) I'll just go for casual. If I find casual difficulty too difficult I'll consult these forums for tips.

 

 

 

However if people want to play a healer because they love that spec, yeah I can see where they're coming from. There are no druids, clerics, paladins, monks or bards in Dragon Age Inquisition either.

Well ME games have a self regenerating shield or barrier. Not dependent on a caster, they are really fast too. So it is easy to duck down and not take damage after the barrier goes down and in 1-2 seconds it pops back in full. As you said, Dragon Age IS harder than ME. Also ME is a cover based shooter or the ability to do so and full mobility. In DAI you are rooted in place doing attacks.

[finc.loki]

Are you not establishing extra camps in the area? I mean there's a little back-trekking, but for the most part I always have a camp pretty near to where I am.

Of course, that is not the point. The point is that the combat isn't designed as fun. It's attrition.

 

It all ends up the same only they made the DAI combat focus on boring stuff and unnecessary trudgery and backtracking to camp etc.

 

If you have a party wipe in DAO, DA2 or DAI the end result is the same, you spawn at your last save. In previous games you could continue instead and fight or move on. In DAI you need to get back to camp to replenish health and potions. It's just an added annoyance. You still have unlimited health at any camp.

 

In DAO or DA2 you looted potions in the world. That allows you to move forward and just focus on the FUN and also focus on the FUN in combat.

 

With healing mages and potions on cooldown like DA2 you still had a challenge and you could just focus on the fighting and fun. You had excellent tactics that you could set up. No need for micromanaging if you didn't want to.

 

This game has idiotic tactics, or lack thereof. It has attrition based combat, which is boring and makes you feel weak. Every encounter is the same amount of enemies spread out ala MMO (check SWTOR). You need to hit each enemy several times to whittle them down. They hit hard so your health drops and you have to use potions, which is the other part of attrition. So the punishment instead of fun is the FN BACK TO CAMP design.

 

You cannot mitigate all damage via barriers, it forces you into micromanagement because they cannot make a smart AI and tactics. I do NOT want to play the "game of barriers". You cannot compose a party of the ones you WANT, but the one they FORCE you to make. You need a barrier mage, you need a warrior, same with rogue.

 

 

They didn't want heal spam, so they made barrier spam, the logic is mind boggling. They didn't want waves of enemies at risk of party wipe (excitement), so they made all enemies equally strong at the expense of you feeling powerful (against weak enemies). Isn't the party wipe or the risk of it the exciting part. The thing that makes it adrenaline pumping?

 

This game is either you just play attrition and always survive encounters but need to replenish potions at camp, rinse and repeat, or meet an too high level enemy and lose.

 

It's "can you kill the dragon or high level enemy before your potions run out". "Can you keep micromanaging the barrier spam to win the fight"... Gone is the "have fun and fight enemies and feel powerful".

 

They could have had the best of both DAO and DA2 combat. They decided to make it boring. 

[Maverick827]

The lack of health regen was first brought up a year or more ago. We hard a huge argument on the boards about it. Some of us were able to see where it was heading, and I can't say I'm pleased to see that I was right.

Tedious backtracking to PokeCenters to heal your party.

What I didn't account for was zero healing spells and ludicrously frequent respawns. That's just bad game design.

The only thing that could salvage it at this point is the discovery of a console command to heal your party. Essentially, any time you find yourself thinking "I should head back to camp and lose 30 minutes of my life," you could just type run script healparty or something and be good to go.

[Keldaurz]

It is amazing reading people trying to justify the trekking as some sort of skill. Yes, killing efficiently in this game is required to do less trekking, but the trekking itself for health potion is just a timegate so you have more played hours. For example, today i was on hinterlands, clearing the southeast part of the map, i managed to complete the whole part on nightmare with just 3 travels back to a camp. That's time wasted specially because many times you will need to clear parts of the map again... and that involves getting damaged again.

 

 

Also, about "tactics". To be honest, if the game tactical mode worked as it should, if the AI tactics weren't completely dumbed down, then, we could put put blame on the players instead of the game design, but right now, i can't blame noone for not wanting to pause and use the tactical layer every few seconds on a PC because it is really, really, really, really ****** annoying in this game.

 

It is sad, because there are many things they got right this time, but they completely botched the combat system in the process, which funnily enough, was the only saving grace DA2 had.

[GhoXen]

Medigel is few in all three games and well, if you play really well you'll never need medigel anyway. Even on Insanity.

 

 

That said, is it just me or are the Dragon Age games much harder than Mass Effect?

Probably why people want healing abilities so badly.

 

I imagine the primary reason is because Mass Effect is designed to be played controlling a single character, with minor management over two companions. Dragon Age is designed where you have control over the entire party.

 

I've been playing DAI Mass Effect-style so to speak on Nightmare. It's challenging, and make me come up with a lot of unconventional tactics to win difficult fights (e.g. kite bosses, hit & run, sniping from hard to reach places), but I find it highly rewarding. It's actually giving me the Souls games feel.

[Sidney]

The idea that combat is non-threatening is the problem. It wasn't in DAO or DA2 so rather than say, "Wow, combat is pointless let's make it better" they went with the how can we make our pointless combat matter? You look at games that have actual tactics be it XCOM or the old JA games combat is dangerous. It isn't designed to be a XP gaining exercise but it should threaten you. Now, combat is by design something that should be an annoyance not a challenge.